Financial Accounts upto 30 June 2017

[Banbury2018]

So either way he could have paid it straight to ensco! The way I see it he’s selling the business for say £7m. Instead of paying that up front we’re paying it in staged payments but it’s still the same price. And from what I’ve heard no different to the deal agreed in principle with sartori. Darryl would have still got future payments from players he had brought. I’m sure charlie can confirm

That’s how these things seem to work these days yes.

 

[Shosho]

Thread:

https://twitter.com/x/status/982500396127084545

 

[Navegante]

^^^^^ Irrelevant tweet, as it refers to Operating Loss. Clearly this fellow has an agenda against the club.

 

[Lundinsponytail]

Dave

Got lucky or did very good business. To be honest I don’t understand a fair few of the terms despite reading the entire thing. But there’s nothing that really stands out as a surprise. £1.5m a year is 1/4 smaller than the £2m a year we’re told the club loses. And that’s only the second season in 20+ years I think that we have turned a profit isn’t it ?

Dave, I think the point is that as Tiger gets no transfer revenue for the forseeable and should not rely on a Cup run he needs to put in 2 million a year to keep us where we are. If he wants to up things - and we have been told that that was the whole point of Darryl selling - it is going to be 2.5 million a year.
If he has that spare then great (though strange to get out of Reading claiming it to be too expensive).
Anyhow, that is all for the future. Today is all about the players going out and performing. Scunthorpe first half aside we have not been all that bad recently. If we put up that level of performance consistently over the next three matches hopefully we can pull ourselves clear before Wigan away. Five points from three games should ease all our anxieties....

 

[radicalox]

Is it not possible this whole charge structure is just a tax efficient way of having Eales paid what he wants for the club (as opposed to because Tiger doesn't have enough money as some have alluded too).

Say for example the hypothetical situation where Eales want a further £1 million for the club, Tiger has £1 million to spend, and there is £ 1 million due in transfer fees over the next year. In a "standard" scenario, Tiger simply gives the £1 million to eales, Eales is paid off, and the £1 million in transfer fees goes to the club, to be spent by the club. However, in this situation the club may turn a profit and that £1 million may be subject to corporation tax.

In the charge scenario, Tiger instead invests his £1 million into the club, and the £1million transfer fees go direct to Ensco to pay off the Eales debt. This way there would be no risk of a tax liability and overall the club now has more money to spend, and everyone is happy (except the tax man).

By no means an expert in this sort of thing, so interested to know if this makes sense.

 

[PottersRightBoot]

£7 million turnover from ordinary activities is a quantum leap from ten years ago. Have to say the accounts are really impressive - that’s when taken in the context of the crazy financial world of lower league football.

In the context of other business sectors I’m not so sure.

At the risk of repeating this a thousand times the only way the club can ever be on firm financial footing - ie have any hope of making an operating profit - is by purchasing the ground.

Nonetheless - in isolation 2017 was a terrific year financially.

Not that you’ll hear much praise for the owner by some of our learned friends here.

 

[Deleted member 462]

£7 million turnover from ordinary activities is a quantum leap from ten years ago. Have to say the accounts are really impressive - that’s when taken in the context of the crazy financial world of lower league football.

In the context of other business sectors I’m not so sure.

At the risk of repeating this a thousand times the only way the club can ever be on firm financial footing - ie have any hope of making an operating profit - is by purchasing the ground.

Nonetheless - in isolation 2017 was a terrific year financially.

Not that you’ll hear much praise for the owner by some of our learned friends here.

Not so sure on that, I think when stewart looked at the figures, firoka turned a £300k profit in the last few seasons, that’s including £500k+ rent. Owning the stadium wouldn’t be the golden goose some think, and certainly wouldn’t put us into profit. In fact repayments on a loan to buy it could see us slightly worse off. We would see an upturn in sponsorship, f&b and use of say the conference centre, but would have to go some to cover the costs and make around £1.5m profit

 

[Manorlounger]

Not so sure on that, I think when stewart looked at the figures, firoka turned a £300k profit in the last few seasons, that’s including £500k+ rent. Owning the stadium wouldn’t be the golden goose some think, and certainly wouldn’t put us into profit. In fact repayments on a loan to buy it could see us slightly worse off. We would see an upturn in sponsorship, f&b and use of say the conference centre, but would have to go some to cover the costs and make around £1.5m profit

There would also be considerable costs in getting the facilities up to scratch. 4th stand as another cost and really, it's hardly worth considering. Long term though, we need a better, bigger and more customer friendly stadium. Some real head scratching to be done. (unless someone with a lot of money comes along! )

 

[Deleted member 462]

Not so sure on that, I think when stewart looked at the figures, firoka turned a £300k profit in the last few seasons, that’s including £500k+ rent. Owning the stadium wouldn’t be the golden goose some think, and certainly wouldn’t put us into profit. In fact repayments on a loan to buy it could see us slightly worse off. We would see an upturn in sponsorship, f&b and use of say the conference centre, but would have to go some to cover the costs and make around £1.5m profit

There would also be considerable costs in getting the facilities up to scratch. 4th stand as another cost and really, it's hardly worth considering. Long term though, we need a better, bigger and more customer friendly stadium. Some real head scratching to be done. (unless someone with a lot of money comes along! )

Exactly, which is why a renegotiation of lease is almost a better prospect. U don’t have to pay the £8-13m. U pay slightly more rent but get all income, u can then use that £8-10m on improvements and maybe a 4th stand. You get to put in place better maintenance and cleaning contracts, u can make it more homely. Over a really long lease, so we have security. Kassam gets his regular payments for doing nothing. And importantly the stadium remains in separate ownership to the club, so can’t be used as an asset to strip.

That imo is 3rd best option, but probably most achievable.

1/ rich owner gifts it to us.
2/ community ownership
3/ above plan

 

[Lundinsponytail]

There would also be considerable costs in getting the facilities up to scratch. 4th stand as another cost and really, it's hardly worth considering. Long term though, we need a better, bigger and more customer friendly stadium. Some real head scratching to be done. (unless someone with a lot of money comes along! )

Erm, they did!

At least two that I know of approached DE with the resources to sort the stadium situation out. Sartori last May and the previous owner of a well-known Spanish second tier club in November.

But in the interests of the club DE sold to Tiger. So here is hoping that our bow tied maestro has 15 million to spend. Because the two that I know of demonstrably did. And presumably we can all agree that it would be a pity if the club were to be less well-resourced than it might have been, given the structural problems we face.

 

[Lundinsponytail]

£7 million turnover from ordinary activities is a quantum leap from ten years ago. Have to say the accounts are really impressive - that’s when taken in the context of the crazy financial world of lower league football.

In the context of other business sectors I’m not so sure.

At the risk of repeating this a thousand times the only way the club can ever be on firm financial footing - ie have any hope of making an operating profit - is by purchasing the ground.

Nonetheless - in isolation 2017 was a terrific year financially.

Not that you’ll hear much praise for the owner by some of our learned friends here.

You will from me! This year was the achievement of the model put in place by Ashton and built with Eales' money. It was an impressive achievement and one that, as if the start of 2017 put the club in a position to move yet further forwards.
And then he decided to sell, and that set in train the concatenation of bad decisions that led us back down the mountain, having briefly glimpsed the peak. It is now going to take a further heap of good decisions and a mountain of new cash to repair the damage. Whereas if he had either ploughed the profits back in or sold last spring to someone (nit necessarily Sartori, but anyone appropriate) with the wallet to build on the platform he and Ashton had built then the sky was the limit.
That makes me sad. But yes, the three years that preceded the bad/self interested decisions were impressive indeed.

 

[PottersRightBoot]

Put it another way. We can never make an operating profit under the current ground arrangement.

I’m getting so fed up looking over at that crappy fence on match days.

I may be in a minority here but I quite like the stadiun. If it were actually finished it could be a tidy championship compatible ground .

I believe we could get 15,000 to 17,000 crowds regularly in the Championship. Historically we are a bigger club than Reading and look how their crowds rose.

Added to the additional revenue opportunities I take the view the club could turn regular profits - especially with the 2016/2017 player selling policy being regularly implemented.


Would a fourth stand be constructed as part of a revised lease agreement? Somehow I doubt it. Persuade me otherwise

Fingers crossed for today.

 

[sadoldsod1778]

Hi Charlie whats to stop Tiger selling to one of your friends ?????

 

[Manorlounger]

Erm, they did!

At least two that I know of approached DE with the resources to sort the stadium situation out. Sartori last May and the previous owner of a well-known Spanish second tier club in November.

But in the interests of the club DE sold to Tiger. So here is hoping that our bow tied maestro has 15 million to spend. Because the two that I know of demonstrably did. And presumably we can all agree that it would be a pity if the club were to be less well-resourced than it might have been, given the structural problems we face.

Oh I am in agreement with you Charles, I was quite excited by the approach of Sartori and equally bemused when it was declined. First I've heard of another approach, that must have slipped under the radar.

However, we are where we are. If, and that's still a big if, Tiger has the capital clout to do what is required, then all's well.

 

[Paul P]

Erm, they did!

At least two that I know of approached DE with the resources to sort the stadium situation out. Sartori last May and the previous owner of a well-known Spanish second tier club in November.

But in the interests of the club DE sold to Tiger. So here is hoping that our bow tied maestro has 15 million to spend. Because the two that I know of demonstrably did. And presumably we can all agree that it would be a pity if the club were to be less well-resourced than it might have been, given the structural problems we face.

Apropos of nothing in particular really but if these two bids were so well financed and viewed us as having bankable potential (our only major asset I assume) then was the extra £1m or so Tiger waved in front of DE really enough to put them off?

I am not a fan of spending other people's hard earned money for them and a million pounds is a large chunk of change but it seems that in the grand scheme of a deal like this that both were put off very easily.

The deal is done now and i'm not one to look longingly over my shoulder too often but that did always strike me as odd.

 

[Deleted member 462]

Erm, they did!

At least two that I know of approached DE with the resources to sort the stadium situation out. Sartori last May and the previous owner of a well-known Spanish second tier club in November.

But in the interests of the club DE sold to Tiger. So here is hoping that our bow tied maestro has 15 million to spend. Because the two that I know of demonstrably did. And presumably we can all agree that it would be a pity if the club were to be less well-resourced than it might have been, given the structural problems we face.

Oh I am in agreement with you Charles, I was quite excited by the approach of Sartori and equally bemused when it was declined. First I've heard of another approach, that must have slipped under the radar.

However, we are where we are. If, and that's still a big if, Tiger has the capital clout to do what is required, then all's well.

How could it slip under the radar he mentions it at least once a week [emoji6]. It’s all very well putting in place the most dream deal imaginable, if u don’t offer what the owner wants he won’t sell. That was the case for sartori, that was the case for Charlie and Stewart when trying to buy of lenagan.

The past is the past, neither put up enough money to buy the club, so didn’t get the chance to prove what they can do. Tiger did, it’s where we are. If he doesn’t have the money then the club will soon be up for sale and juan or charlie can make him an offer

 

[Lundinsponytail]

Hi Charlie whats to stop Tiger selling to one of your friends ?????

Have to say that the second one wasn't a 'friend'. I was approached as part of an extensive due diligence process by his team, who had bought and turned a Spanish club on a five year project, taking it from the third tier to the second tier, and wanted to do the same with an English one. They were a formidable team - really impressive - and were looking at three League 1 clubs. They valued OUFC at £3 million, but were willing to pay £5 million as they saw it as an interesting opportunity. However, they reckoned that it would take at least another £10 million investment over three years to become a sustainable Championship club. So, £15 million to create something worth £25 million. That was their view. They knew all about Kassam and the Licence already, had spoken to all sorts of people in Oxon politics (one of whom foolishly recommended speaking to me about market analysis) and had a very detailed assessment of our playing squad - their view was that the squad was fucked, and they knew Clotet, and didn't rate him at all....

Anyhow, the real point is that Sartori's people from Monaco and the guys from Spain both did very detailed assessments and came to the same conclusions: interesting opportunity, but the club itself - with an operating loss of £2 million a year and no property angle - is not worth very much at all, and you are going to need to plough in £10 million - £15 million quite swiftly to "take it to the next level".

So, in my view Tiger has over-paid (Pompey went for £5 million, club and stadium). Which doesn't matter a damn if, on top of that, he has the sums mentioned above to do what needs to be done. In terms of getting a new, improved stadium lease sorted out, it should be achievable but - unless things have changed, which I doubt - probably not whilst DE remains a director and significant shareholder.

 

[Lundinsponytail]

Apropos of nothing in particular really but if these two bids were so well financed and viewed us as having bankable potential (our only major asset I assume) then was the extra £1m or so Tiger waved in front of DE really enough to put them off?

I am not a fan of spending other people's hard earned money for them and a million pounds is a large chunk of change but it seems that in the grand scheme of a deal like this that both were put off very easily.

The deal is done now and i'm not one to look longingly over my shoulder too often but that did always strike me as odd.

When you are looking at three or four clubs, I fear that every extra million does indeed count, let alone £2 million. It makes other opportunities more interesting, financially. Let's not forget that none of these people are OUFC fans. They are financial investors who like football. Very few people get wealthy by being relaxed about £2 million cash being frittered away. If they are that way, they tend not to say wealthy very long..... think Simon Jordan and his ilk.

 

[Deleted member 462]

Apropos of nothing in particular really but if these two bids were so well financed and viewed us as having bankable potential (our only major asset I assume) then was the extra £1m or so Tiger waved in front of DE really enough to put them off?

I am not a fan of spending other people's hard earned money for them and a million pounds is a large chunk of change but it seems that in the grand scheme of a deal like this that both were put off very easily.

The deal is done now and i'm not one to look longingly over my shoulder too often but that did always strike me as odd.

When you are looking at three or four clubs, I fear that every extra million does indeed count, let alone £2 million. It makes other opportunities more interesting, financially. Let's not forget that none of these people are OUFC fans. They are financial investors who like football. Very few people get wealthy by being relaxed about £2 million cash being frittered away. If they are that way, they tend not to say wealthy very long..... think Simon Jordan and his ilk.

Yet tiger would also have had the opportunity to look at 3/4 clubs, it was him “looking” that led to Harvey and lenagan pointing him in the direction of oxford. That lenagan who u speak very highly of. Also being “advised by jack who has vast experience of putting together deals for football clubs. If £2m made it not a very attractive prospect then they could easily have just gone and spent less themselves on Pompey couldn’t they.

What club have they turned their attention to after not getting Oufc? Just so we can keep up with how well they do. The Chinese investment that kt got at Northampton was said to be a great deal, look where that has got them.

 

[LondonRoader]

When you are looking at three or four clubs, I fear that every extra million does indeed count, let alone £2 million. It makes other opportunities more interesting, financially. Let's not forget that none of these people are OUFC fans. They are financial investors who like football. Very few people get wealthy by being relaxed about £2 million cash being frittered away. If they are that way, they tend not to say wealthy very long..... think Simon Jordan and his ilk.

So what was in it for them if they were financial investors?