Financial Accounts upto 30 June 2017

[Paul P]

When you are looking at three or four clubs, I fear that every extra million does indeed count, let alone £2 million. It makes other opportunities more interesting, financially. Let's not forget that none of these people are OUFC fans. They are financial investors who like football. Very few people get wealthy by being relaxed about £2 million cash being frittered away. If they are that way, they tend not to say wealthy very long..... think Simon Jordan and his ilk.

As I said, a large sum of money and i'd never let anyone spend mine but for people with that sort of financial clout it seems strange neither felt us attractive enough a proposition to warrant a counter offer, having invested time and money in getting to that point. As for Tiger the promotional and communication side of the business seems to be stepping up well, fingers crossed the financial side follows suit (and natty bow tie).

 

[Gary Baldi]

As DE has said many times, there is a financial gulf between L1 and the Championship. So while the Thais got out of Reading for being too costly, the scale in L1 makes it more affordable. Not to say however that any owner will be willing to fund 30k a week losses for the long term. The harsh reality for OUFC is it needs someone with lots of capital and a desire to see no return on it in sometime to get the model into a sustainable position. And even harsher is there aren't many people out there willing to do it for a L1 club.

In the meantime, we'll be playing catch up on other teams whose financial positions are more flexible.

 

[Lundinsponytail]

So what was in it for them if they were financial investors?

Same as for DE: invest money to take the club to the Championship and then sell out to a bigger player for a profit. Fairly simple. Buy it for £4 million, invest say £12 million in costs and infrastructure, get up to the Championship, stabilise in the Championship and then sell for £25 million , making £9 million if all goes well. Of course, things do not always go well, and you run the risk of spending more money on getting there, or maybe spending money and NOT getting there. That is the nature of investment - it's never a guaranteed one way street.

We are highly unlikely to attract an entirely non "financial" investor (I can only think of one proper OUFC fans who is really rich enough to do it as a passion project). Lenagan (a Liverpool fan) was sold the tale of the Championship by Merry; Eales (a Brum City fan) by Ashton. It's all the same thing. The arbitrage between what the club is worth in the bottom two leagues and the Championship is substantial enough to warrant taking the risk. We are fortunate that the metrics of modern football make League 1 clubs reasonably attractive. Get things right, and you can make a few bob, as DE has just done without even completing the task.

With the exception of Tiger's partners at Reading, most of these "financial investors" are also passionate about football. They have other things they can make money out of more easily. But they are fascinated and attracted by football and the challenge of getting it right. But the smart ones are increasingly wary of the total expenditure required. If the end game is selling for £25 million then you do not want to get yourself in the hole for £20 million with no guarantees. So the amount that you pay for the League 1 club is important because that is cash that is then not in the pot to get the whole project right. Buy for £7 million and invest £12 million and your ultimate risk/reward ration is starting to look pretty tight.

If Tiger does indeed have big bucks to spend on sorting us out, though - and doesn't care about a few million here or there - then clearly it is no concern of ours what he paid on the way in...

 

[Scotchegg]

How much someone is prepared to invest is irrelevant if they don't meet the asking price in the first place! And it will be interesting to see if Satori and/or unnamed Spanish group end up buying any other club anytime soon. Both sound like they chanced on getting Oxford in the cheap and are likely to try the same elsewhere. They may get a bargain or might get ignored time and again!

 

[LondonRoader]

Same as for DE: invest money to take the club to the Championship and then sell out to a bigger player for a profit. Fairly simple. Buy it for £4 million, invest say £12 million in costs and infrastructure, get up to the Championship, stabilise in the Championship and then sell for £25 million , making £9 million if all goes well. Of course, things do not always go well, and you run the risk of spending more money on getting there, or maybe spending money and NOT getting there. That is the nature of investment - it's never a guaranteed one way street.

We are highly unlikely to attract an entirely non "financial" investor (I can only think of one proper OUFC fans who is really rich enough to do it as a passion project). Lenagan (a Liverpool fan) was sold the tale of the Championship by Merry; Eales (a Brum City fan) by Ashton. It's all the same thing. The arbitrage between what the club is worth in the bottom two leagues and the Championship is substantial enough to warrant taking the risk. We are fortunate that the metrics of modern football make League 1 clubs reasonably attractive. Get things right, and you can make a few bob, as DE has just done without even completing the task.

With the exception of Tiger's partners at Reading, most of these "financial investors" are also passionate about football. They have other things they can make money out of more easily. But they are fascinated and attracted by football and the challenge of getting it right. But the smart ones are increasingly wary of the total expenditure required. If the end game is selling for £25 million then you do not want to get yourself in the hole for £20 million with no guarantees. So the amount that you pay for the League 1 club is important because that is cash that is then not in the pot to get the whole project right. Buy for £7 million and invest £12 million and your ultimate risk/reward ration is starting to look pretty tight.

If Tiger does indeed have big bucks to spend on sorting us out, though - and doesn't care about a few million here or there - then clearly it is no concern of ours what he paid on the way in...

I think we can all assume that the real reason was the pup of WE you tried to sell them, the pot of gold that never existed?

 

[Lundinsponytail]

How much someone is prepared to invest is irrelevant if they don't meet the asking price in the first place! And it will be interesting to see if Satori and/or unnamed Spanish group end up buying any other club anytime soon. Both sound like they chanced on getting Oxford in the cheap and are likely to try the same elsewhere. They may get a bargain or might get ignored time and again!

I love the sheer brute ignorance of Scotchers. No knowledge; no judgement; just big knee jerking movements.

Yes, I believe that you will see both of them in ownership pretty soon. But I am wowed by your conclusion that £5 million under-values OUFC. Pompey, breaking even, goes for £5.5 million, club and stadium. Northampton, breaking even, £4.5 million likewise. And OUFC is worth more than that, wth operating losses of £1.5 million plus.

I am so, so happy that you are not my FD, old friend. Stay in the public sector!!

 

[Lundinsponytail]

I think we can all assume that the real reason was the pup of WE you tried to sell them, the pot of gold that never existed?

Ah. Bless Clever Michael. All angry again - get the meds back on, old chap.

If you think that anyone doing due diligence would buy OUFC on the presumption of Water Eaton, then words fail me. Of course, they might well have been sold on the BS nonsense peddled by your chums that a community purchase of the current stadium was imminent. Given that public declarations were made to that effect.

Where is Uncle Bob Price when one needs him? Did he manage to sort out the stadium situation before leaving his post, as he promised. What a bunch of bullshitters.

 

[Sarge]

Ah. Bless Clever Michael. All angry again - get the meds back on, old chap.

If you think that anyone doing due diligence would buy OUFC on the presumption of Water Eaton, then words fail me. Of course, they might well have been sold on the BS nonsense peddled by your chums that a community purchase of the current stadium was imminent. Given that public declarations were made to that effect.

Where is Uncle Bob Price when one needs him? Did he manage to sort out the stadium situation before leaving his post, as he promised. What a bunch of bullshitters.

Sad fact of these times is that theres many who TALK a good job, very few match their words with actions..... which bears out the old nugget of wisdom that talk is cheap

 

[MJB]

Lovely to see all of the posturing and name calling has returned for this thread. Great bunch of lads!

 

[LondonRoader]

Ah. Bless Clever Michael. All angry again - get the meds back on, old chap.

If you think that anyone doing due diligence would buy OUFC on the presumption of Water Eaton, then words fail me. Of course, they might well have been sold on the BS nonsense peddled by your chums that a community purchase of the current stadium was imminent. Given that public declarations were made to that effect.

Where is Uncle Bob Price when one needs him? Did he manage to sort out the stadium situation before leaving his post, as he promised. What a bunch of bullshitters.

Angry me, really.
Just exposing you as the PR guru with the big imagination, all your big words BS about WE as the pot of gold for the club was rubbish, we can assume the only ones to make money out of that if that project, would of been your financial investors you introduced, can we guess why you did that!

 

[Banbury2018]

Ah. Bless Clever Michael. All angry again - get the meds back on, old chap.

If you think that anyone doing due diligence would buy OUFC on the presumption of Water Eaton, then words fail me. Of course, they might well have been sold on the BS nonsense peddled by your chums that a community purchase of the current stadium was imminent. Given that public declarations were made to that effect.

Where is Uncle Bob Price when one needs him? Did he manage to sort out the stadium situation before leaving his post, as he promised. What a bunch of bullshitters.

Pots and kettles I am afraid.

 

[Deleted member 222]

Ah. Bless Clever Michael. All angry again - get the meds back on, old chap.

If you think that anyone doing due diligence would buy OUFC on the presumption of Water Eaton, then words fail me. Of course, they might well have been sold on the BS nonsense peddled by your chums that a community purchase of the current stadium was imminent. Given that public declarations were made to that effect.

Where is Uncle Bob Price when one needs him? Did he manage to sort out the stadium situation before leaving his post, as he promised. What a bunch of bullshitters.

Oh Charles, how you can talk about someone bullshitting when you did just that when you sold Satori the dream of WE when it was never possible is beyond me.

 

[LondonRoader]

Ah. Bless Clever Michael. All angry again - get the meds back on, old chap.

If you think that anyone doing due diligence would buy OUFC on the presumption of Water Eaton, then words fail me. Of course, they might well have been sold on the BS nonsense peddled by your chums that a community purchase of the current stadium was imminent. Given that public declarations were made to that effect.

Where is Uncle Bob Price when one needs him? Did he manage to sort out the stadium situation before leaving his post, as he promised. What a bunch of bullshitters.

Again a personal and crass opening line to start your rant up, I might be old that's a given, but I workout 4-5 times a week and that certainly helps my mental health, I never ever touch meds..

As for the rest of your rant, no idea it's not something that ever gets brought up in any conversations.

Where were you when "Uncle Bob" sat in front of the Oxford fans? did you take him to task over all your perceived wrong doings? did you stand there face to face and repeat all your inflammatory remarks to him?
Nope you sent sideshow mark along to try and batter the counselors with all your "pertinent questions", that went well didn't it?
The councellor you thought you had got on your side actually hung you out to dry in a public arena, strange thing politics!

 

[MarkG]

Disagree.

If you read clauses 9.1 and 9.2 together, looking at the sums involved, and the dates, it reflects a payment structure for Ensco's shares in OUFC.

The secured loan is £4,275,708.

It would appear that the first payment is due by 30th April 2018, and this would be £995,817.

There is then another payment for the same amount due by 30th September 2018 for the same amount.

The final payment is due sometime after 30th September 2018 and would be for £1,284.074.

Add those three sums together and it comes to £3,275,708, suggesting that £1m may have already been paid (although why secure a sum which has already been paid?)

So, if the club's income means that there are excess sums prior to the above payment dates, then the club can have access to those funds. But it's £4.3m which is owed, not £1.3m.

Yes, I think you are correct now. The secured loan notes are £4,275,708, and there are payments due presumably 995,817 + 995,817 + 1,284,074 = £3,275,708 with a missing £1,000,000 which has presumably been paid? They seem quite odd amounts though, and the payment dates seem odd being just two months after the takeover, then five months, with presumably a final payment in 2019?
So I'd guess these are linked to instalment payments on player transfers, as these monies have to be paid into that bank account? So also as said, if this exceeds what is already due on player transfers, it perhaps reflects a valuation on unsold players like Ledson, Rothwell, Eastwood, Nelson?

 

[MarkG]

Perhaps we will find out more when Ensco and alycidon 2017 accounts get filed.

But this total loan note is a lot less than the debt shown in the 2017 OUFC accounts. And whilst we’ve had some transfer cash in, it surely can’t be enough to repay that much . And also the alycidon 2016 accounts show them providing against investments by some four or five million.

 

[Deleted member 462]

Disagree.

If you read clauses 9.1 and 9.2 together, looking at the sums involved, and the dates, it reflects a payment structure for Ensco's shares in OUFC.

The secured loan is £4,275,708.

It would appear that the first payment is due by 30th April 2018, and this would be £995,817.

There is then another payment for the same amount due by 30th September 2018 for the same amount.

The final payment is due sometime after 30th September 2018 and would be for £1,284.074.

Add those three sums together and it comes to £3,275,708, suggesting that £1m may have already been paid (although why secure a sum which has already been paid?)

So, if the club's income means that there are excess sums prior to the above payment dates, then the club can have access to those funds. But it's £4.3m which is owed, not £1.3m.

Yes, I think you are correct now. The secured loan notes are £4,275,708, and there are payments due presumably 995,817 + 995,817 + 1,284,074 = £3,275,708 with a missing £1,000,000 which has presumably been paid? They seem quite odd amounts though, and the payment dates seem odd being just two months after the takeover, then five months, with presumably a final payment in 2019?
So I'd guess these are linked to instalment payments on player transfers, as these monies have to be paid into that bank account? So also as said, if this exceeds what is already due on player transfers, it perhaps reflects a valuation on unsold players like Ledson, Rothwell, Eastwood, Nelson?

Would it show £1m if it had already been paid ?

 

[oxford1985]

Would it show £1m if it had already been paid ?

would show in this years returns i guess? (upto June 2018) this time next year

 

[myles]

Perhaps we will find out more when Ensco and alycidon 2017 accounts get filed.

But this total loan note is a lot less than the debt shown in the 2017 OUFC accounts. And whilst we’ve had some transfer cash in, it surely can’t be enough to repay that much . And also the alycidon 2016 accounts show them providing against investments by some four or five million.

Indeed. This is why I was interested in Wiggy’s claim that the club was now debt free when the available documentary evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[Craig]

What does this mean? I noticed it on the Company House website. Says the document(s) will be available within 5 days (from April 9) but just wondered if anyone knows.

• Resolution of allotment of securities.

Also, accounts for the Women’s team are showing as overdue. Great way to support an application for a license to a newly formed league, especially as that’s one of the application (license) requirements.

I have emailed Niall, Ruth Senior and Andy Cook. Andy probably won’t have an answer, but I’m sure he’ll care, so thought I would include him.

 

[Craig]

I received a reply from Niall. I have to admit I'm disappointed; I didn't expect much and got even less. His reply basically said "thanks for your email. Thanks for your continued support". That's it. Didn't address the actual content of my email, didn't offer any kind of explanation or reassurance; just thanks for your continued support. If this was the men's team people would be, well, we know what would be happening.

I have to admit I feel let down, especially after Sarge was kind enough to ask a question regarding the women's team at the recent fans forum and Niall said the club is committed to the women's team. Well, if that was genuinely true, why were men's filed in a timely manner and not the women's? Where's the parity, the commitment? I just don't know how a professional football club can neglect to do something so basic yet so essential. It just gives me a poor impression of the clubs attitude towards the women's team unfortunately.

I also feel the club should have applied for the new league license at the first opportunity and our place would now be secure, rather than waiting and risking our place in the league. I'm aware the club adopted a 'wait and see' approach, but all the answers they could have needed were either in the 100+ page application, or just a phone call away. But let's put that aside for a moment because that's a matter of opinion and nothing can be done about it at this point. Plus I'm rambling a bit because I'm irritated.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08675404

I don't know if @OxVox can provide assistance of some kind? I don't know what I'm proposing exactly, it's an entirely new situation to me. A gentle nudge to get their act together, if nothing else, I suppose.