European Championships Final: Spain 🇪🇸 vs England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[unification]

El Tel only got one tournament before we got rid of him for being a bit Werrrr….and we only lost on penalties in the semis to one of the most efficient German teams in history.

And in that short time, he delivered one of the two truly exhilarating England performances of my lifetime when we crushed the Dutch (the other being Munich under Sven)

Often wonder what would have happened if he’d been given 6-8 years……

Yeah, but Switzerland and Spain in that tournament though. England really should not have got to the SFs based on the Spain performance.

The same applies to Robson. He was under a load of pressure going into 1990. A bobbins performance at Euro '88 and a drab group stage (much like the entire World Cup) and some flukey wins against Belgium and Cameroon (hE oNlY bEaTs ThE rUbBiSh TeAmS!) got England through to the semis. Pavarotti, Gazza's tears and a first penalty shootout defeat somehow makes fans think that 1990 was somehow good. It was as drab as any Southgate performance.

Whatever metric you look at it, Southgate has got England going deep into almost every tournament (recent Nations League aside). No England manager since Ramsey has got even close to that. Now he's set some groundwork, England need a serial winner to take them to the next stage. The resources are there, the approach is there but it needs more fluidity. It'll be interesting to see who comes in.

It’s a never ending production line for England.

And Southgate has been a massive part of that. He isn't just the England manager but an overseer of all levels of the youth set up having been part of that himself ahead of getting the England senior job. Since 2016, the U21s have made the semis in 2017 and won the Euros in 2023, U20s have won the WC in 2017, U19 won the Euros in 2022 and the U17s won the WC in 2017.

The conveyor belt is there and the cupboard is rammed with talent. The FA have done a cracking job in developing the youth and turning them into decent pros. Having that slightly more dynamic figurehead who can work across all areas and manage England at the finals would be excellent. They have plenty to work with.

 

[Foley]

El Tel only got one tournament before we got rid of him for being a bit Werrrr….and we only lost on penalties in the semis to one of the most efficient German teams in history.

And in that short time, he delivered one of the two truly exhilarating England performances of my lifetime when we crushed the Dutch (the other being Munich under Sven)

Often wonder what would have happened if he’d been given 6-8 years……

Yes a teriffic coach.
Hoddle also was a bit ahead of his time ( using different formations to 4- 4-2 successfully at times).
Southgate clearly has been fantastic in the team bonding and team work. But he hasn't been a great coach ( getting the best out of the incredibly talented attacking players)
Is there anybody who could do both?

 

[boogaloo]

It should be an Englishman who manages the national team, all national teams above a certain level should have a manager of that nationality. So England, Germany, Argentina, Uruguay etc should a manager of that nationality while the country with no great background in the sport like Luxembourg, Gibraltar, Samoa and Scotland should be able to hire in from outside to try and raise the standard of the game in those footballing outposts.

I personally think it should best person for the job, rather than best English person. Although if we must have an English manager, then I really really do hope that Gareth Southgate STAYS, as I cannot see anyone coming in and getting close to achieving what he's achieved.

The standard of English managers in general is absolutely appalling compared to the rest of Europe. In the Premier League there are only three English managers - Eddie Howe, Sean Dyche and Gary O'Neil. And in the 30 odd year history of the Premier League, not one English manager has ever lifted the trophy - the closest was Kevin Keegan during that season when he had the famous 'I would love it' rant!

I'd rather see England get outplayed in a final by an world class Spain team, than see them knocked out in the early stages by the likes of Iceland and Costa Rica!

 

[boogaloo]

El Tel only got one tournament before we got rid of him for being a bit Werrrr….and we only lost on penalties in the semis to one of the most efficient German teams in history.

And in that short time, he delivered one of the two truly exhilarating England performances of my lifetime when we crushed the Dutch (the other being Munich under Sven)

Often wonder what would have happened if he’d been given 6-8 years……

There's always going to be a lot of 'could have's but that's merely speculation. Another 'could have story' is Glenn Hoddle - if only he kept his bible bashing opinions to himself.

And then there's England's most statistically successful manager of all time, with a 100% win ratio consisting of 1 win, 0 draws and 0 losses - Big Sam Allardyce!

 

[Joey]

I personally think it should best person for the job, rather than best English person.

I just think international football should have the same eligibility criteria applied throughout, make it a proper competition between countries.

Although if we must have an English manager, then I really really do hope that Gareth Southgate STAYS, as I cannot see anyone coming in and getting close to achieving what he's achieved.

I don't mean to keep dragging him down as clearly he's done well but I doubt the next guy will be anywhere near as fortunate. Just in this tournament if us and Spain, for example, had swapped groups we'd have been out in the quarters again most likely. I don't think Southgate has beaten a team with an equal or better squad/team than us in major tournaments. He's done a little better at beating the teams he should beat but I wouldn't go much further than that. I think if you look at the players available to him and the players available to the teams we've beaten then we should have been winning all those games. That doesn't always happen of course so he gets some credit for getting us through them but I can't go overboard on it.

The standard of English managers in general is absolutely appalling compared to the rest of Europe. In the Premier League there are only three English managers - Eddie Howe, Sean Dyche and Gary O'Neil. And in the 30 odd year history of the Premier League, not one English manager has ever lifted the trophy - the closest was Kevin Keegan during that season when he had the famous 'I would love it' rant!

All true but then what had Southgate achieved? He'd been in the youth set up having failed as a manager and seemed to get the job because we needed someone after the Allardyce fiasco. The no English manager winning the league stat is always pretty damning.

I'd rather see England get outplayed in a final by an world class Spain team, than see them knocked out in the early stages by the likes of Iceland and Costa Rica!

This gets said a lot but if we want to be successful I don't see the benefit of pointing at results in the past, which were seen as catastrophic failures at the time, and saying "at least we're not doing that!" It's similar to when Oxford aren't performing and there are some pretty clear issues, plenty of people will point out that we were losing to Hayes and Yeading and Histon nearly 20 years ago. Who cares? Past failure shouldn't be used as a safety blanket that insulates you in the here and now. With regards to getting knocked out by poor teams let's not forget that a couple of weeks ago we were 90 seconds away from getting knocked out by Slovakia before Bellingham shinned a bicycle kick in with what was our first shot on target.

 

[tonyw]

Yeah, but Switzerland and Spain in that tournament though. England really should have got to the SFs based on the Spain performance.

The same applies to Robson. He was under a load of pressure going into 1990. A bobbins performance at Euro '88 and a drab group stage (much like the entire World Cup) and some flukey wins against Belgium and Cameroon (hE oNlY bEaTs ThE rUbBiSh TeAmS!) got England through to the semis. Pavarotti, Gazza's tears and a first penalty shootout defeat somehow makes fans think that 1990 was somehow good. It was as drab as any Southgate performance.

Whatever metric you look at it, Southgate has got England going deep into almost every tournament (recent Nations League aside). No England manager since Ramsey has got even close to that. Now he's set some groundwork, England need a serial winner to take them to the next stage. The resources are there, the approach is there but it needs more fluidity. It'll be interesting to see who comes in.

Not disputing at all that Southgate has gone 4-4 when it comes to going deep in tournaments. And that his record is superior to Sir Bobby's.

Just pointing out that El Tel went 1-1 when it comes to going deep in tournaments......and that in that single tournament, his team produced one glorious performance that was the best England have played (possibly Munich aside) in at least forty years. And who knows what he would have achieved if he wasn't such a crafty cockney......

 

[Belgium Yellow]

I see that Roy Hodgson is 50-1 for the England job! That would be a Biden-esque appointment.

 

[Joey]

Not disputing at all that Southgate has gone 4-4 when it comes to going deep in tournaments. And that his record is superior to Sir Bobby's.

Just pointing out that El Tel went 1-1 when it comes to going deep in tournaments......and that in that single tournament, his team produced one glorious performance that was the best England have played (possibly Munich aside) in at least forty years. And who knows what he would have achieved if he wasn't such a crafty cockney......

Is the quarter finals classed as deep? A lot of people have said that before Southgate that's where we tended to exit tournaments.

 

[Leysboy]

LOL!! Frightening to have left all this at home and find ourselves with players blowing a gasket playing every conceivable minute and out of position. It’s an embarrassment of riches going to waste.

Can you tell I’m upset?

View attachment 21331

Where’s Ben White?

 

[tonyw]

Is the quarter finals classed as deep? A lot of people have said that before Southgate that's where we tended to exit tournaments.

Ok fine, Southgate is only 3-4……

But my point is really just to question the notion that Southgate was absolutely better than El Tel. We don’t know because he never got a chance to build on a great start……

 

[Swaby39]

Some ate suggesting that he should take and play players in form.
Rashford had an awful season and Grealish played little under Pep.
I am really not sure that these would have made much of a difference?
Far more difference could have been playing Palmer earlier and maybe Watkins instead of Kane?

And that’s perfectly fine, except he took Luke Shaw and likes of Wharton who’ve only just set foot outside the championship. I applaud the latter, but not if he’s afraid to play him. We wasted several slots on players he was never going to use - why so many centre halves if there was no intention to rotate? Especially when in an emergency Walker or Rice could go there. He got it all wrong for me before a ball was kicked and the final was the defeat we’d been deserving for most of the tournament bar the semis.

 

[Swaby39]

Where’s Ben White?

Refusing call ups by the sounds of it after departing early from the last squad he was in. A new manager surely turns the tide there. He makes my best current england XI all day long.

 

[boogaloo]

I see that Roy Hodgson is 50-1 for the England job! That would be a Biden-esque appointment.

Graham Potter is the bookies favourite, and that is even more frightening!

 

[Swaby39]

Yeah, but Switzerland and Spain in that tournament though. England really should have got to the SFs based on the Spain performance.

The same applies to Robson. He was under a load of pressure going into 1990. A bobbins performance at Euro '88 and a drab group stage (much like the entire World Cup) and some flukey wins against Belgium and Cameroon (hE oNlY bEaTs ThE rUbBiSh TeAmS!) got England through to the semis. Pavarotti, Gazza's tears and a first penalty shootout defeat somehow makes fans think that 1990 was somehow good. It was as drab as any Southgate performance.

Whatever metric you look at it, Southgate has got England going deep into almost every tournament (recent Nations League aside). No England manager since Ramsey has got even close to that. Now he's set some groundwork, England need a serial winner to take them to the next stage. The resources are there, the approach is there but it needs more fluidity. It'll be interesting to see who comes in.



And Southgate has been a massive part of that. He isn't just the England manager but an overseer of all levels of the youth set up having been part of that himself ahead of getting the England senior job. Since 2016, the U21s have made the semis in 2017 and won the Euros in 2023, U20s have won the WC in 2017, U19 won the Euros in 2022 and the U17s won the WC in 2017.

The conveyor belt is there and the cupboard is rammed with talent. The FA have done a cracking job in developing the youth and turning them into decent pros. Having that slightly more dynamic figurehead who can work across all areas and manage England at the finals would be excellent. They have plenty to work with.

I think Southgate has overseen a key transitional period at a difficult time and deserves immense credit for even getting us to nearly men. Thats progress. But the quality of player available to us now has outgrown him and they’re too advanced to be playing such a regressive, passive style of play. We need a mentality shift now to be a side that asserts itself on games in the way Spain do. No reason we can’t do it.

 

[holdsteady]

Graham Potter is the bookies favourite, and that is even more frightening!

Why? Big name club managers won’t go to international football, he is English, managed abroad and did well with Brighton. Not going to be getting Guardiola.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Discussing who is the best England manager in absolute terms is a bit like comparing apples and oranges, because they all have a different set of players to work with and are playing teams who themselves vary in quality from generation to generation. Beating Italy (as an example) is a very different prospect now than it was some years ago, and you can say the same for (again, just an example) Turkey. Given that, I think you can only judge them on how they have used the assets they have been given: in terms of players, circumstances, preparation facilities and the *current* quality of the opposition they meet in a competition.

Given that, I don't think this Euros was Southgate's best tournament. Personally I think that the team he put out was consistently less than the sum of its parts and was (as described on the BBC yesterday) a 'moments' team - we saw occasional (and frustrating) flashes of what we could have been, with maybe one 45 minute period combining those moments into a longer, extended period against a good opposition.

 

[Belgium Yellow]

Graham Potter is the bookies favourite, and that is even more frightening!

Not a worry for me. He plays good football.
You're not going to get a high quality manager for international jobs, they all want the top club jobs.
Pochettino is probably the best quality manager we could get and he actually wants the job.

 

[Leysboy]

Refusing call ups by the sounds of it after departing early from the last squad he was in. A new manager surely turns the tide there. He makes my best current england XI all day long.

Yeah he should be starting, and I heard there was an issue, something along the lines of “why should I join up with the squad, when you have no intention of playing me”. Again Southgate picking his favourites, rather than ones that are in form.

 

[Big Ronaldo]

I hear people mention Klopp and Pep as potential managers for England.
What fanciful crap. Neither of those managers would go anywhere near that job.
Don’t you think that they can see what a basket case of b*****s it is being England manager?
It’s far more likely to be someone willing to be another FA puppet than someone actually at the top of their game.

What was so weird about all of the matches we played in this tournament is how rarely we actually hard pressed the opposition.
Only when we were losing did we actually do it, and we got results.
It looked to me like only the young players had real energy, that buzz about their game.
All in all, Southgate has improved us but we never looked anything like good enough. England have to find a way to get on the front foot in games. We have the players at our disposal. We need a coach now who can build on what has been developed.
Don’t ask me who, but it ain’t Southgate.

 

[dannyc]

the problem is the fa mainly they need a overhaul they have no idea what they are doing and only appoint yesmen .

 

[holdsteady]

Who are the big name managers other countries are appointing?

 

[Swaby39]

I hear people mention Klopp and Pep as potential managers for England.
What fanciful crap. Neither of those managers would go anywhere near that job.
Don’t you think that they can see what a basket case of B*****s it is being England manager?
It’s far more likely to be someone willing to be another FA puppet than someone actually at the top of their game.

What was so weird about all of the matches we played in this tournament is how rarely we actually hard pressed the opposition.
Only when we were losing did we actually do it, and we got results.
It looked to me like only the young players had real energy, that buzz about their game.
All in all, Southgate has improved us but we never looked anything like good enough. England have to find a way to get on the front foot in games. We have the players at our disposal. We need a coach now who can build on what has been developed.
Don’t ask me who, but it ain’t Southgate.

I don’t think either will take it but I don’t think it’s that crazy to suggest, particularly as Klopp is out of work.

Both have invested a decade of their lives in English football and had a big hand in developing some of our most prominent players in that time, Pep especially.

But also I don’t think either would reach the summit of their careers in the way they have by ducking a challenge. England is starting to look like the impossible job and to a certain personality, that’s an opportunity.

Klopp’s out of work and wants a break. He also lives in England still and doesn’t want to manage another English club. It’s not all that wild to think he might fancy a crack at it since neither the Germany job or the Real Madrid job (both seem obvious next moves) are going to come up any time soon.

I think he’s too rogue for the FA, but if we want to win, they need to push themselves. There aren’t many managers who could play the kind of football that would turn Wembley from a morgue to a lions den.

 

[OUFCGav]

I don’t think either will take it but I don’t think it’s that crazy to suggest, particularly as Klopp is out of work.

Both have invested a decade of their lives in English football and had a big hand in developing some of our most prominent players in that time, Pep especially.

But also I don’t think either would reach the summit of their careers in the way they have by ducking a challenge. England is starting to look like the impossible job and to a certain personality, that’s an opportunity.

Klopp’s out of work and wants a break. He also lives in England still and doesn’t want to manage another English club. It’s not all that wild to think he might fancy a crack at it since neither the Germany job or the Real Madrid job (both seem obvious next moves) are going to come up any time soon.

I think he’s too rogue for the FA, but if we want to win, they need to push themselves. There aren’t many managers who could play the kind of football that would turn Wembley from a morgue to a lions den.

the FA would have to treble the wages they are currently paying Southgate to get his attention.

 

[boogaloo]

Southgate has resigned. To be fair eight years is a long time to manage an international team. I wish him all the best, and hopefully in years to come he will be looked at more positively than he is at the moment. Thank you for the memories Gareth - England have come a long way, and you've left them in a much better place than when you inherited it.

Gareth Southgate resigns: England manager quits after Euro 2024 final defeat

England manager Gareth Southgate resigns after losing a second consecutive European Championship final.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Ewes]

I hear people mention Klopp and Pep as potential managers for England.
What fanciful crap. Neither of those managers would go anywhere near that job.
Don’t you think that they can see what a basket case of B*****s it is being England manager?
It’s far more likely to be someone willing to be another FA puppet than someone actually at the top of their game.

What was so weird about all of the matches we played in this tournament is how rarely we actually hard pressed the opposition.
Only when we were losing did we actually do it, and we got results.
It looked to me like only the young players had real energy, that buzz about their game.
All in all, Southgate has improved us but we never looked anything like good enough. England have to find a way to get on the front foot in games. We have the players at our disposal. We need a coach now who can build on what has been developed.
Don’t ask me who, but it ain’t Southgate.

Well, he’s gone now. Agree with most of what you say but not about Klopp or Pep being unrealistic successors. It should be the best coach for the job, regardless of their nationality (or even gender).

The standard of English coaches is really poor at the moment, mainly because they hardly get the chance to develop and take risks in the PL.

Klopp has said he wants some time out of the game so I’d expect the FA to ask Lee Carsley to take charge in the interim until they ‘carry out a full extensive recruitment project’ (yawn) to find a full-time successor. All things lead back to Klopp IMO, he will get the best out of our talented attackers and won’t necessarily show dumb loyalty towards certain English stalwarts just because they’ve done it in the past.

I’ve got nothing against Carsley getting the job permanently but I fear he will have been indoctrinated in the Southgate/FA cautious way.

You’re right about our lack of pressing and energy. I saw the same in several other teams resulting in the most boring international tournament I can remember.

Southgate’s legacy will be that he developed most of those players through the U21s and gave them chances at senior level, but denied all creativity and skill by playing an ultra-cautious style.

PS whoever selected Walker in the ‘team of the tournament’ needs their head testing. A token nomination just because we bored our way to the final in a poor tournament. Although he has done well overall at internationally level, both Spanish goals were down to his bad positioning.