Fan's View FAN’S VIEW: 24/25 – No.38: WEST BROM AWAY
- Thread starter Paul B
- Start date
Level: Callum O'Dowda
SirAndyOfCrosby
Level: Dave Langan
(136 Apps, 3 Gls)
Re: 'I wanna go home' - like so much of the modern day repertoire it's massively overused and lacking any originality whatsoever.
The only time that chant has ever been witty was when Stoke went to Valencia in the Europa League and sang 'Stoke is a sh*thole, I wanna stay here'
The only time that chant has ever been witty was when Stoke went to Valencia in the Europa League and sang 'Stoke is a sh*thole, I wanna stay here'
Paul B
Level: Callum O'Dowda
(106 Apps, 14 Gls)
Original humour - sadly lacking on most occasions.Re: 'I wanna go home' - like so much of the modern day repertoire it's massively overused and lacking any originality whatsoever.
The only time that chant has ever been witty was when Stoke went to Valencia in the Europa League and sang 'Stoke is a sh*thole, I wanna stay here'
- Year of First Game
- 1995
I wonder why this is? I distinctly remember the London Road being spontaneous and there being back and forth with the away fans. There was a bit of that at Leeds (self deprecating) and with the chubby Stoke fan but on the whole originality and humour have gone away.
- Year of First Game
- 1995
We arrived at The Vine around 1pm only to be told by the bouncer that it was now home fans only as Oxford fans were singing too much and they kept having to call the police. I was gutted at the time as fancied some chicken tikka from the barbecue, but in hindsight it was probably for the best as I had my six year old with me.
Given there were no other options in the area (some other away fans came back from The Sportsman complaining they couldn't get in their either), we ran to the tram stop and went away from the ground to find a pub. Amazingly, we ended up at another desi pub called The Vine. It didn't do food, but had cobs behind the bar and was incredibly cheap. It made me laugh when one old boy, spotting my sons colours said very seriously "you've got the wrong Vine, you want the other one." Another local told us "you're welcome here boys" which made me think that actually away fans weren't usually welcome, or he wouldn't need to state it!
Given there were no other options in the area (some other away fans came back from The Sportsman complaining they couldn't get in their either), we ran to the tram stop and went away from the ground to find a pub. Amazingly, we ended up at another desi pub called The Vine. It didn't do food, but had cobs behind the bar and was incredibly cheap. It made me laugh when one old boy, spotting my sons colours said very seriously "you've got the wrong Vine, you want the other one." Another local told us "you're welcome here boys" which made me think that actually away fans weren't usually welcome, or he wouldn't need to state it!
A few around us including myself tried a bit of "boiler" humour. Given it was Ideal v Baxi.
However it didn't gather any momentum and "football in a library" (the irony given how we can be at times) on repeat took over.
I expect that those moved on from The Vine were probably the same ones singing about Birmingham being a sh1thole as they walked from Snow Hill station into the centre, and then chose to go in some pubs/bars. It all gets a little bit "I remember my first pint" at times.
Always feels like a bit of a cycle with the "singers", as younger ones come through, they stick with what they've seen on YouTube, fail to create anything original and end up annoying some of the fanbase. Eventually they realise, the atmosphere improves, and around we go again as every part of the fanbase gets a year older.
It's where we really miss the ultras presence and determination to keep a song going as well as their creativity.
However it didn't gather any momentum and "football in a library" (the irony given how we can be at times) on repeat took over.
I expect that those moved on from The Vine were probably the same ones singing about Birmingham being a sh1thole as they walked from Snow Hill station into the centre, and then chose to go in some pubs/bars. It all gets a little bit "I remember my first pint" at times.
Always feels like a bit of a cycle with the "singers", as younger ones come through, they stick with what they've seen on YouTube, fail to create anything original and end up annoying some of the fanbase. Eventually they realise, the atmosphere improves, and around we go again as every part of the fanbase gets a year older.
It's where we really miss the ultras presence and determination to keep a song going as well as their creativity.
Manorlounger
Level: Phil Whitehead
(238 Apps)
Hope you are feeling better by Saturday @Paul B You may need to be of a healthy constitution in order to get through the afternoon/lunchtime.
We've decided that a hearty breakfast is required to stave off any disappointment so, F&B's it is. If that ends up being the highlight of the day it won't be an unexpected outcome. Hopes are high but, it has been a task and a half to watch the boys lately.
We've decided that a hearty breakfast is required to stave off any disappointment so, F&B's it is. If that ends up being the highlight of the day it won't be an unexpected outcome. Hopes are high but, it has been a task and a half to watch the boys lately.
Essexyellows
Level: Cameron Brannagan
(311 Apps, 57 Gls)
MarkG
Level: Steve Basham
(189 Apps, 51 Gls)
I made the mistake of making this journey by train via Reading and the Cross Country service, figuring it was easier than having to go into and across London to get to Euston and hopefully cheaper with the split ticketing at Banbury. (I think this was the Bournemouth to Manchester service). It was standing room only at Reading and luckily I managed to get to my reserved seat.
Dozens of our fans got on at Oxford and most had to stand all the way to Birmingham New Street as even those with reservations couldn't get down the carriage to find their seats. My connecting train from Reading on the way back was already cancelled before my day had even started, so I ended up getting an earlier one from New Street rather than having to wait 90 minutes at Reading. This was also standing room only until some got off at Coventry. Why can't XC get a train with more than four carriages ?
We managed to find a few craft beer and ale pubs between New Street and Snow Hill, though bizarrely a few of our group got mixed up and went into a bouldering / rock-climbing centre. The train from Snow Hill was every 15 minutes so very efficient. No idea why, but we were directed out of the station on an "away fans" path, which took us on a detour round the back and then just joined the home fans path to the ground. Thinking about it, after the match the away fans are taken around the ground and a different route back to the station and allowed on the train in priority to the home fans who came the more direct route.
As for the game, I think we are perhaps trying not to concede two or three, and maybe get a goal back, rather than attack and then get overrun. We found a pretty good view down the right hand corner, and although it was next to the side of the stand, didn't block our view except for seeing some of the away fans.
One thing I liked was that West Brom actually put our substitutions up on the scoreboard, unlike other teams and I don't think we do either.
Dozens of our fans got on at Oxford and most had to stand all the way to Birmingham New Street as even those with reservations couldn't get down the carriage to find their seats. My connecting train from Reading on the way back was already cancelled before my day had even started, so I ended up getting an earlier one from New Street rather than having to wait 90 minutes at Reading. This was also standing room only until some got off at Coventry. Why can't XC get a train with more than four carriages ?
We managed to find a few craft beer and ale pubs between New Street and Snow Hill, though bizarrely a few of our group got mixed up and went into a bouldering / rock-climbing centre. The train from Snow Hill was every 15 minutes so very efficient. No idea why, but we were directed out of the station on an "away fans" path, which took us on a detour round the back and then just joined the home fans path to the ground. Thinking about it, after the match the away fans are taken around the ground and a different route back to the station and allowed on the train in priority to the home fans who came the more direct route.
As for the game, I think we are perhaps trying not to concede two or three, and maybe get a goal back, rather than attack and then get overrun. We found a pretty good view down the right hand corner, and although it was next to the side of the stand, didn't block our view except for seeing some of the away fans.
One thing I liked was that West Brom actually put our substitutions up on the scoreboard, unlike other teams and I don't think we do either.
In short - they don't have them at the moment. Barely enough rolling stock in the country and XC are very much the Cinderella of the industry. One of the most complicated routes to manage with so many major cities with multiple football matches and major events every weekend. It's ridiculous that they ever got made to take all the routes they do (still not reintroduced their full timetable post covid) and then are punished by not being in the queue for new trains either. Longest running franchise/contract without any new fleet I believe.
In positive news, they have managed to secure 12 extra trains that are being phased in as they're freed up from Avanti.
I sometimes use cross country to do the short hop from Reading to Oxford if it’s the most convenient train time, nearly always standing room only but manageable for 20 minutes, hear a lot of moaning though.
I didn’t notice that the 9.35 from Reading to Guildford had been cancelled till I got to Reading, shortage of staff apparently, managed to get on a train to Wokingham and get the missus to pick me up from there as it’s only 15 minutes from Blackwater so actually got home a bit earlier than I would have.
Paul B
Level: Callum O'Dowda
(106 Apps, 14 Gls)
Yes, there are two Vines. Because of numbers already inside they restricted both home and away fans coming in. When some left they let more in. Thought they handled it really well. Those that hung around waiting to be let in weren't disappointed. So packed inside though that I noticed some people stood up eating their Indian food. A very popular place.
TailsWeWin
Level: Dave Roberts
(176 Apps, 8 Gls)
That “all too familiar sinking feeling”!
Blimey we’ve suffered as away supporters this season! Time after time I’m walking back to the car depressed….
Sunderland
Sheffield
Leeds
Coventry
QPR….
(I missed Millwall as we were away)
It’s hard work.
And I’m stupid enough to have booked a weekend in Norwich…..
Blimey we’ve suffered as away supporters this season! Time after time I’m walking back to the car depressed….
Sunderland
Sheffield
Leeds
Coventry
QPR….
(I missed Millwall as we were away)
It’s hard work.
And I’m stupid enough to have booked a weekend in Norwich…..
MarkG
Level: Steve Basham
(189 Apps, 51 Gls)
For home games there is normally a GWR train from Paddington leaving a few minutes after the XC at Reading. Not sure if they are Hitachi or IET but they are newer, more carriages, and generally have some seats spare.
I got an email at 2 in the morning telling me that 21:35 was cancelled. As my booked train was due in at 20:39 I didn't fancy a two hour wait in Reading for the 22:35. I have got a back-up for when it's bus replacement to Guildford, which is via Basingstoke and Woking (my ticket doesn't allow via London). This time decided just to head straight out of Birmingham New Street at 6pm rather than the booked 7pm train.
- Year of First Game
- 1995
Over the years I have developed several techniques to make sure I can get onboard a Crosscountry train. Which I really shouldn't need to do just to get where I want to go, having paid upfront!
If I've not got to be somewhere at an exact time, I often check them when I wake up and select one that's a double unit (8 or 9 carriages). But sometimes they run only 4 cars on a route for hours on end, so it's not always possible.
Yep that's how I work as well.
Being Derby based, unless I'm going to London, CrossCountry are my only choice for at least the first stage of practically anywhere else I'm going.
Returning to York to see family, or down to Oxford for football sees me scanning realtimetrains to identify the chances of getting a seat! SeatFrog has also become really appealing for a first class upgrade (when it remains cheaper)
They are putting some more of their Newcastle-Reading services back in at the May timetable change, so at least I'll be able to get a direct train to Oxford again for next season!
werthersoriginal
Level: James Constable
(280 Apps, 106 Gls)
I hate those short Cross Country trains. I always seem to get them on a Sunday when they’re absolutely packed with students coming back from a weekend at home.
Yep and links to my point higher up about the daftness of their routes they need to serve. The Newcastle to Sheffield section alone covers off about 10 universities, yet alone the number of venues that have events on, plus weekend visitors/tourists and sports fixtures.
Kernow Yellow
Level: Mateo Corbo
(13 Apps, 8 Yellows, 1 Red)
Although both on the way to Brum last week, and on the way back from Stoke last month, First Class was full (and I mean absolutely packed with as many standing as possible) with people with Standard Class tickets - including me! In both cases it was the only way to get on the train at all.
As to West Brom, we went to the Jewellery Quarter, and had great beer at both the Jewellers Arms pre-match and 1000 Trades afterwards - albeit the latter was certainly nothing like a football pub. The all day tram ticket was good value, and trams surprisingly easy to get on despite the football crowds. I think most take the train to The Hawthorns.
Not much to say about the game that hasn't been said. We've scored one goal in the last 6 games, and that was a mishit cross. The football is very reminiscent of the last days of Des, but with even fewer goals. How many 0-0s do we need to be safe?
Got the train to the game from snow hill but accidently got the tram back after getting in the wrong queue, didn't seem any way to pay and no one checked. Was a bit slower than the train but less of a queue and less crowded, also dropped you right outside new street station.
MarkG
Level: Steve Basham
(189 Apps, 51 Gls)
Might be a silly question, but can you tell if booking in advance how many carriages will be on?
Or do you just rely on looking at the live timetable on the day? Then do you miss out on an advance discount?
The experience on Saturday for many people was that even with seat reservations many people couldn't get to them, or often you find the booking system has not updated when the train is at the station.
I've looked at Seatfrog for Avanti WestCoast and it never seems to drop below £35 for an upgrade
Not through CrossCountry's current booking engine (produced by trainline) as there's no seat picker option.
The only slight way you can tell at time of booking is by carriage letter, if a letter beyond a D, then it's at least 5 carriages.
CrossCountry's Twitter is generally pretty good at responding to questions about what size train is planned to run your service ahead of time.
I work in the industry so can't buy advance products any way.
As for seat frog, sounds like that's the fixed upgrade price for Avanti once it has got beyond an auction or if they're not offering seatfrog on that particular service
I often only use if there's an auction available for my service. Just looking now as an example, Birmingham to Manchester on Thursday, a number of services have auctions starting at £7 available. The immediate upgrade price to skip the auction is £37.
- Year of First Game
- 1995
I agree Seatfrog is a lot worse value than it used to be.
You can only tell how many carriages on the day. This is because the diagrams and units only get confirmed late on (and even then they can still change). You may be able to notice a pattern from previous weeks, but it can vary quite substantially as different units need to be serviced unexpectedly or end up out of position due to disruption.
There are still advance ticket bargains out there, depending on where you are going, but I much prefer to book flexible tickets so I can keep my options open, both in terms of when I leave and come back and sometimes even the route I take. it makes it so much less stressful and avoids waiting around unnecessarily or having to cram onto a packed train.
There's often a huge discount on *split* flexible tickets when you return same day. This is because Day Returns are often way cheaper than Period Returns. For example, Oxford - Sheffield and back on April 12th for the Wednesday game: £68.90 when splitting at Banbury, Leamington Spa, Coventry and Derby. You have to go through those stations, but don't have to get off, so those tickets are valid on almost every train on the fastest route (one change at Birmingham New Street).
The same journey on a non-flexible split (using some advance tickets) is £61.20 if booked today. Personally I'd rather pay the extra £7.70 for the flexibility and the fact I don't have to purchase them up front, meaning if the game gets moved / postponed, or I'm ill / something else comes up, I'm not out of pocket.
MarkG
Level: Steve Basham
(189 Apps, 51 Gls)
Most of the midlands/northern trips I'll go via London if there are two of us going as we can use the Two Together card. Into London I use the network card. Also the East Coast/ West Coast main lines tend to have better trains, or even the EMR trains from St Pancras.
It's harder to get the decent advance tickets now that it seems at least a third of the Saturday games are moved from 3pm kick-offs so you have to wait for the fixtures to be "fixed". With the international break coming up, the next announcement will be at the end of this week for Middlesbrough away.
- Year of First Game
- 1995
I also use my Network card when I can but I can only go South as my local station is right on the Northern edge!
Yeah, the kick off times moving is part of the reason I very rarely buy advance tickets now. Only really when going somewhere with my family or if there's a ludicrous difference in price.
Another thing I don't like is the borderline scamming that some TOCs do to try to keep the full money for the ticket. For example, when I bought a return from New Street to Smethwick Galton Bridge there was a WMR only option that was 10p cheaper than the ticket I could use on any TOC! WMR / LNR do this a lot, as do Govia Thameslink. Lots of tourists heading to Brighton for the day or flying from Gatwick Airport get caught out by very slightly cheaper Thameslink only tickets.
Northern also do silly advances that are great for a single journey, but only very slightly cheaper than a return.
The theory (cheaper ticket for less busy / slower train) is great but they are taking the mickey by making the saving almost non-existent, but ensuring it still pops up first on ticket machines and journey planners.
Kernow Yellow
Level: Mateo Corbo
(13 Apps, 8 Yellows, 1 Red)
This and the ticketing issues highlighted by @Lost Marbles exemplify everything that is wrong with the fragmented rail industry in this country. It's ok for those of us sad/savvy enough to know our way around it, but why should everyone need to understand split ticketing to be able to travel for an even vaguely affordable price?
And as for seat auctions on trains - unbelievable. If the train company has first class seats unused that they want to sell, make them more affordable to start with then increase the price as they are sold. Train tickets should be based on miles travelled, advance purchase discounts and peak/off peak travel time - nothing more or less complicated than that. They should also be standardised, and absolutely not TOC-specific.
Rant over!
Auctions are generally on trains where the first class tickets don't usually sell out. Quieter times of days etc.
And increasing the price as they are sold is literally how it works anyway.
Just some trains start higher than others.
Works exactly same way as hotel rooms, air fares etc.
Everything else you mention is likely to come as the nationalisation process commences (though not convinced anything will change quickly, given the foundations of the entire pricing system and mechanisms are left over from BR days, and the whole process is going to take years as current contracts end)
werthersoriginal
Level: James Constable
(280 Apps, 106 Gls)
It sounds like you have to be a train wonk to make the best use of the rail system! I can manage the London day ticket, which is great value with a railcard, but struggle more with the longer journeys.
Oh definitely. If I didn't work in the industry, I wouldn't have a clue.
