Fan's View Fan's View 2019/20 No.2 - Pre-season pt2

[Victor1986]

Excellent stuff Paul but horrendous reading! The DE charge HAS to be settled now or there's only one outcome to all this.

 

[yellowbow]

But Kassam cares about the club!

What’s the additional £400k in 2018 about?

Being custodian of the club costs money you know!

 

[uptheus]

Being custodian of the club costs money you know!

I think I’ve missed something in translation?

 

[westyorkshireexile]

So, basically, the only way we could benefit from the sale of Whyte is to take players worth £4m in exchange for him with no cash handed over????

 

[Manorlounger]

Thanks for this even though it is horrendous reading.

So that's what default interest is. Bollox. DE could have been a lot more helpful couldn't he?
& the Gavin Whyte thing is triple bollox isn't it.
Is it that there's no actual end date for the repayments to DE? OUFC just keep paying 10% of the outstanding balance forever and a day?
But if so why is the figure in the 2018 accounts due to other creditors falling within a year £8.7k? What was paid off, if anything, in the subsequent year I wonder.

Apologies Paul, I left out the word not from the post you quoted.
In short, interest would be liable if the club did not pay up on time.
The schedule for payments is as per the charge document:


So, in theory, the debt should have been paid off in full but, the charge is still active and therefore it could be construed that it has not been settled and interest will have been charged. If this is so, it would maybe explain the cash flow issues as any, literally any, funds in the clubs accounts would be liable to being diverted to pay this charge.
It sounds so incredible that I have to doubt my own interpretation. It needs an accountant to decipher!

 

[RyanioBirdio]

We’ve had posters on this forum before who have laid out this exact sort of stuff, warts and all, and been chased with pitchforks. They’ve even cited companies house documents to back up their argument and still been beaten up and run out of town. So while I’m grateful to Paul B for laying this all out there as best he can, and an excellent job he’s done too, I’d be lying if I said I’m not a bit confused as to why some people seem to be willing to accept the severity of our situation based on WHO says things, rather than WHAT is being said and what evidence is being used to support the claims.

 

[Manorlounger]

We’ve had posters on this forum before who have laid out this exact sort of stuff, warts and all, and been chased with pitchforks. They’ve even cited companies house documents to back up their argument and still been beaten up and run out of town. So while I’m grateful to Paul B for laying this all out there as best he can, and an excellent job he’s done too, I’d be lying if I said I’m not a bit confused as to why some people seem to be willing to accept the severity of our situation based on WHO says things, rather than WHAT is being said and what evidence is being used to support the claims.

Sadly this is very true.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Never mind the pitchforks, the difficulty is sorting the wheat from the chaff as some of our posters seemingly have an axe to grind!

 

[Matt D]

And the interest rate is indeed 10% per annum:

View attachment 1875

Default interest, as in if the club does not meet the payment schedule as laid out in the charge.

Apologies, left out the word not!

so the man who told us that any debt accrued on his watch would be written off is potentially charging Us 10% interest on this potential revenue?

wow.

 

[Matt D]

But Kassam cares about the club!

What’s the additional £400k in 2018 about?

not looked but i assume it is the service charge that was disputed by the club (under eales) and not paid but the club is now having to settle.

 

[Manorlounger]

so the man who told us that any debt accrued on his watch would be written off is potentially charging Us 10% interest on this potential revenue?

wow.

Nothing potential about the income. It's very, very real. Written in so much legality as to make it impossible for the club not to pay DE. Even if the club were to fold, Ensco 1070 has first refusal on anything left.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Never mind the pitchforks, the difficulty is sorting the wheat from the chaff as some of our posters seemingly have an axe to grind!

Hitler himself could tell me that the sky is blue and I’d have to concede he’s right. Play hard, but play fair.

 

[uptheus]

not looked but i assume it is the service charge that was disputed by the club (under eales) and not paid but the club is now having to settle.

That’s what I thought, but these accounts are only to June 2018, whereas, these disputed back payments (courtesy of Darryl) were paid late 2018.

 

[Sarge]

That’s what I thought, but these accounts are only to June 2018, whereas, these disputed back payments (courtesy of Darryl) were paid late 2018.

when (OUFC)General Meetings are Annual General Meetings , accounts submitted are usually only up to the previous June.... two sets for the forthcoming General Meeting , One Set up to June 2017 and the other from then to June 2018 .... the ones ending June 2019 ( including the disputed late payments) wont be 'available' until next years AGM , should the board chose to hold an AGM of course

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

Never mind the pitchforks, the difficulty is sorting the wheat from the chaff as some of our posters seemingly have an axe to grind!

Not really. Why would anyone have an axe to grind when dealing with personalities they’ve never met in their life.

Let’s cut to the chase it’s Myles Francis we are talking about and I’m pretty sure he had had no personal encounters or run ins with Tiger and co. prior to their appearance.

He presented facts, and supposition was then placed upon him that he must have an axe to grind because “how could you possibly be so negative about these guys for for no reason” (even though the reason was clearly laid out).

Suddenly he was friends with Charlie and it was all some clever plot to get Charlie in as owner (forgetting the fact that forum messages don’t tend to influence business deals one iota)

Also worth mentioning that Myles, as a critical friend of the club, by highlighting risks, is far more valuable to us than any fan who sees this worrying material and starts bellowing “everything is awesome” across a thousand inane posts.

I’m all for positivity, and I see KR as a huge positive for our club right now, but the ownership and debt...my oh my it’s a mess.

Tiger bought this club on an iou note which is akin to how the glazers bought man united. It’s all very well blaming eales but nobody forced Tiger to sign a deal that promised our future income away because he didn’t want to cough up the minerals up front. He’s very much to blame for a big part of our strife in my opinion and that’s before we get to lack of leadership, his general insanity, and his “future intentions”

 

[Upthecowboys]

Thanks for the financial summary Paul, I particularly enjoyed reading your ones a while back detailing other clubs figures. For many it is not a lack of effort in trying to get your head around figures, it is more that sometimes you hear different slants on the figures and it can be confusing. However people like @MarkG and yourself seem to be able to rpesent things quite clearly.

So in layman's terms:-

DE is owed £4 million and if it is not paid back on time then interest accrues at 10% on whatever is outstanding - I think?

The latest financial information shows that it is outstanding, but this does not mean it is overdue or it may have been paid off (in part) but we won't know that until the next set of accounts - I think?

Just say though that it is either all overdue or part of it is, then that is quite scary. Worse case scenario and none of it is paid off then the 'debt' in effect grows by £400,000 per annum. If any is outstanding, then surely one of the billionaire owners could at least pay off DE and at worse charge a heck of a lot less interest? If any of DEs money is overdue and accruing interest at that rate then this should be an absolute minimum that should happen, it is not like we are talking about owners with a few million for which £4 million would be a sizeable chunk.

 

[Manorlounger]

Just say though that it is either all overdue or part of it is, then that is quite scary. Worse case scenario and none of it is paid off then the 'debt' in effect grows by £400,000 per annum. If any is outstanding, then surely one of the billionaire owners could at least pay off DE and at worse charge a heck of a lot less interest? If any of DEs money is overdue and accruing interest at that rate then this should be an absolute minimum that should happen, it is not like we are talking about owners with a few million for which £4 million would be a sizeable chunk.

There is a re-payment schedule based on set amounts being accrued in an account set up specifically for this purpose. The club then transfers the amount specified by the schedule to Ensco 1070 (D Eales) Failure to do so incurs interest. Failure to pay any of the amount could lead to far worse consequences. Without knowing exactly what has or has not been paid - the accounts don't give a break down of debts - we are left in the dark.
What is quite specific in the charge held over the club is that ANY income from player sales MUST be paid into the account until such time as the original debt is satisfied. The charge is still listed at companies house as active/not settled. Again, this doesn't mean it hasn't been settled, just that the charge has not been legally listed as settled.
Oh, and just by the way, the interest is compound. So, not £400,000 per annum.
The daft part is that as long as the clubs that bought players from us make payments on schedule, there shouldn't be any issue in repaying Eales. Money comes in, goes into account, gets paid out. Just like HMRC etc. . . . . oh dear.

 

[Big Ronaldo]

I must admit that until those figures were highlighted by a quite terrifying yet seminal post by Paul, I was of the mind that we should buy well and go for it this season.
But to see those figures and realise their implications on OUFC,
I rapidly decided that a ‘splash of the cash at this stage with the likelihood that we would incur more mountainous debt was not something that was in any way a good idea.

These offset payments are horrific but it’s the overall figure that is the one that makes the eyes water.
When the nuts and bolts of OUFC accounts are laid bare, it all looks very bleak indeed.
I find that It is difficult to not look back at a succession of chairmen (and boards) and see them as the enemy from within.
Not that it is easy to run a club in profit, especially a club with Little in the way of assets. I think we are all aware of how hamstrung we are in getting solid revenue streams in to the club. But it seems that each regime change only saddles us with more debt.
At the moment, we appear to be holding out for a saviour. I really hope that saviour is Tiger and co, because it will be almost impossible to find someone next time around that is willing to get involved with a club so heavily in debt.

 

[tonto]

I have to say I just dont understand that even after the profitable sales of Roofe Johnson etc we still owe DE 4000000.I never realised that pint of lager at barnet was so expensive!

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

I don’t particularly care for Darryl Eales. I called it out when he arrived and got canned for it on here. He was, like any good investment banker, good at schmoozing his key stakeholders. But nobody held a gun to Tigers head.

Stewart Donald saw the terms of sale for what they were and avoided it like the plague.

The sale took forever, whilst we as a club tanked downwards, and the reason it took forever was because Darryl was working out how to screw the most out of Tiger (read oufc) and Tiger was working out how to buy a club with no financial backers whilst committing no upfront cash.

He found away to trade off future oxford United assets against his current purchase, buying his way into a club he didn’t want for anything else but as a property pawn against the council. He then sought backers, very wealthy property investors , who looked to join in anticipation of future fruit. None are willing to commit funds to keep Whyte or Nelson, or get us to the championship, as that’s not the strategy.

That’s why we have never heard the strategy, because it would be PR suicide to own up to it.

This summer was the acid test. Fail. Two players in and eight senior pros out. KR forced to negotiate on a shoe string whilst a wealthy board of property moguls ignores our reality.

Meanwhile we lost decent football people off the board like that nice young man from sky. I’d love to hear the inside scoop from him and I hope oxvox have asked him for his opinions. Football people out. Property people in.

Tiger may not be a bad human. But equally he may not be at oufc for the same reasons we all are.