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Fan's View Fan's View 2019/20 No.2 - Pre-season pt2
- Thread starter Paul B
- Start date
Great piece. Sums up a lot of whats been concerning me. It all very well saying stay positive but these are worrying times. I think all fans owe it to the club to keep pressing tiger for some proper answers. Otherwise we may find out a nasty truth far too late.
As for the upcoming season 3 or 4 decent players a we should be comfortably mid table again. Until we get them I afraid its going to be tough.
If anything this preseason has been just as poor as last. Sure we haven't signed any poor players but thats easy to say when you have hardly signed any players at all. We will be asking a lot of our young players this season.
Come next Saturday who knows who knows we may have made those signings and it will all come together at the last minute. i really hope so.
As for the upcoming season 3 or 4 decent players a we should be comfortably mid table again. Until we get them I afraid its going to be tough.
If anything this preseason has been just as poor as last. Sure we haven't signed any poor players but thats easy to say when you have hardly signed any players at all. We will be asking a lot of our young players this season.
Come next Saturday who knows who knows we may have made those signings and it will all come together at the last minute. i really hope so.
DannyW
Well-known member
The financials are frightening, good article in the times sports section today. Five of the twenty four championship clubs ended up not in the red last year. League one eight clubs in profit, league two eight. Bills being paid late all over the shot and the revenue taking a more rigorous approach to enforcement resulting in more wind up petitions. OUFC seem in a particularly precarious position so no wonder Whyte being sold. I'll turn up and hope to be entertained for as long as it lasts, which I'm afraid will not be for much longer.
An interesting article Paul, particularly the financials. The Wembley finals of 2017 and 2016 certainly helped the turnover. I should imagine the 30th June 2019 accounts will not make good reading.
The reality is we only survive as a club because the directors underpin the debt. The auditors add that “the financial statements have been prepared on a going concern basis, based upon the continued support of the company’s ultimate controlling party”
Like many others on this forum I am not sure of the intentions of the directors’ long term. Some in “ITK” posters indicate everybody is pulling together to achieve success, lets hope so or we are looking at a difficult time ahead.
The reality is we only survive as a club because the directors underpin the debt. The auditors add that “the financial statements have been prepared on a going concern basis, based upon the continued support of the company’s ultimate controlling party”
Like many others on this forum I am not sure of the intentions of the directors’ long term. Some in “ITK” posters indicate everybody is pulling together to achieve success, lets hope so or we are looking at a difficult time ahead.
Notaswindonfan
Well-known member
Everything is in the hands of the owner, obviously if he pulls the plug and nobody steps in we’re doomed, this is the fare of most clubs. I’m with you Paul normally optimistic when a new season is about to start not so with this one.
Excellent article Paul.
Phew it is good to see a thought through and well argued piece.
You are right it is terrifying . Tiger may have many faults but he is pumping huge amounts into OUFC. If he pulls the plug we are in deep trouble.
I am assuming that the service charge from Kassam in 2018 includes some backdated charges from previous years. Still £1.2m!!
As you say Kassam is shafting us.
Phew it is good to see a thought through and well argued piece.
You are right it is terrifying . Tiger may have many faults but he is pumping huge amounts into OUFC. If he pulls the plug we are in deep trouble.
I am assuming that the service charge from Kassam in 2018 includes some backdated charges from previous years. Still £1.2m!!
As you say Kassam is shafting us.
S
Shropshire U
Guest
Thank you, Paul. Essential reading. Not comforting, but essential.
West Oxon U’s
The Transfer Encyclopedia
Bingo!
Let’s look at that particular paragraph from Paul Beasley and let it sink in - albeit slowly:
“ There’s a long list of admin. expenses that make up the total but the standouts are rent re: the operating lease
and stadium service charges and overheads i.e what the FOOTBALL CLUB PAYS FIROKA (OXFORD UTD STADIUM) LTD:
2016 - £485k (rent) £281k (service charges)
2017 - £492k (rent) £317k (service charges)
2018 - £433k (rent) £810k (service charges)
an increase of nearly £400k in the rent and service charges (combined).
“If that wasn’t bad enough we are also paying for REPAIRS and MAINTENANCE too - last three years:
2016 - £92k
2017 - £183k
2018 - £246k
Yes we are being well and truly shafted. Oh and let’s remember the club paid £170,000 for the pitch to be replaced in 2016.”
So for all these charges, fees and expenses we can’t seem to get clean toilets and a clean and well maintained stadium.
We can’t even change the goal nets ! We can’t even sell Singha beer ! We can’t get in on a matchday at midday !
Excellent piece. Painful to read at points but it is important that this information is being made clear to the fanbase.
With regards the debenture held by Eales, do you have any idea of what the maturity date on that security is? (I'm a total novice in this, so forgive me if my terminology is off.) 10% interest p/a seems horrendously high, and, if I understand the piece correctly, until that debt is paid off we won't be seeing any of the financial benefit of our high profile sales. Stadium issues and FK being a w****r aside, this seems to me to be the crucial point to address - if our model is predicated on sustaining the club through player sales, we cannot afford to be investing the money from those sales anywhere other than back into the club! The satisfaction of that debt also seems like something Tiger could pay off in one fell swoop (unlike, say, the annual rent paid to Stadco), which might be financially prudent if it is increasing year on year with interest accumulation?
It also seems like Tiger is pouring more money into the club than he is given credit for by many (including myself). How admirable this is, given he took control of the club presumably knowing the financial contribution required and prepared to pay it, is debatable, but the fact seems to remain that without his contribution we would be even further in the brown stuff than we are now.
With regards the debenture held by Eales, do you have any idea of what the maturity date on that security is? (I'm a total novice in this, so forgive me if my terminology is off.) 10% interest p/a seems horrendously high, and, if I understand the piece correctly, until that debt is paid off we won't be seeing any of the financial benefit of our high profile sales. Stadium issues and FK being a w****r aside, this seems to me to be the crucial point to address - if our model is predicated on sustaining the club through player sales, we cannot afford to be investing the money from those sales anywhere other than back into the club! The satisfaction of that debt also seems like something Tiger could pay off in one fell swoop (unlike, say, the annual rent paid to Stadco), which might be financially prudent if it is increasing year on year with interest accumulation?
It also seems like Tiger is pouring more money into the club than he is given credit for by many (including myself). How admirable this is, given he took control of the club presumably knowing the financial contribution required and prepared to pay it, is debatable, but the fact seems to remain that without his contribution we would be even further in the brown stuff than we are now.
Paul B
Well-known member
Yes it is utterly depressing. We knew that to be the case but when it is laid out like this I think it is even worse.
It's been said over and over though that we're only in this state because the contract was signed. Blame FK - he could obviously be much kinder to OUFC (that's an understatement to say the least) but blame Ian Lenagan and Nick Merry as much, if not more. Do either of them care one jot about the mess OUFC are now in? There's no come back on them.
It all hurts.
It's been said over and over though that we're only in this state because the contract was signed. Blame FK - he could obviously be much kinder to OUFC (that's an understatement to say the least) but blame Ian Lenagan and Nick Merry as much, if not more. Do either of them care one jot about the mess OUFC are now in? There's no come back on them.
It all hurts.
Manorlounger
Well-known member
The accounts have been available for some time now via Companies house: OUFC Companies House
From this it is possible to read the entire document and the charge held over the club by Ensco 1070 (Darryl Eales) With a little patience and thought it soon becomes apparent how fragile the finances are and will be for some time unless an owner truly wipes the slate.
The set up with FK is never going to change. Successive owners, chairmen, MDs spouting their nonsense about how they will seek to work with FK has no swing with me. FK got what he wanted and he's not the sort to bend. OCC have recognised that and even now are trying to save face by threatening to take away the lease on the Priory as though that would be a punishment! Exactly what he wants!
My hope is that the mega rich board find their new site, build their offices, shops, homes, hotels etc and do indeed find a nice spot for a stadium in amongst all the profit making construction. (and, as part of the deal, sign it over to the community and OUFC in perpetuity)
From this it is possible to read the entire document and the charge held over the club by Ensco 1070 (Darryl Eales) With a little patience and thought it soon becomes apparent how fragile the finances are and will be for some time unless an owner truly wipes the slate.
The set up with FK is never going to change. Successive owners, chairmen, MDs spouting their nonsense about how they will seek to work with FK has no swing with me. FK got what he wanted and he's not the sort to bend. OCC have recognised that and even now are trying to save face by threatening to take away the lease on the Priory as though that would be a punishment! Exactly what he wants!
My hope is that the mega rich board find their new site, build their offices, shops, homes, hotels etc and do indeed find a nice spot for a stadium in amongst all the profit making construction. (and, as part of the deal, sign it over to the community and OUFC in perpetuity)
Paul B
Well-known member
The 10% interest is the amount to be paid in the event of default. I don't know what the actual rate is although I think I may have read 5% somewhere. I have looked again but can't find it.
As for not seeing any financial benefit of any of our high profile sales until the debt is paid off, I'm not sure how that works. i can't find detail anywhere giving dates of repayment. But in the 2018 accounts the amounts falling due to other creditors of £8.7m within a year I'm assuming includes the repayment to DE. NB: the amount due to other creditors after more than one year is recorded as only being £258k.
This is all historical now of course as that "within a year" period has passed. I wonder how it played out and where the debt is now. Borrowing from one source to pay off another. And so it goes.
If Tiger and his men have the money I don't get why they don't pay off or have not paid off what debt they can unless that money is accruing a greater rate of interest than that which has been, is being, or is due to be paid out to Barclays or DE. Could be because it is their money and they don't want to risk it in a dodgy football club business. But good point above - Tiger may well deserve some praise for pouring money in to this loss making concern just to keep us going. But the details of how this is being done I'd be interested to know. Is he, like DE expecting pay back at some stage. Yet there's no assets from which this money can come. What gets me though is there's no plan just waffle about sustainability and aiming for the Championship. It's that which has led to overlooking of the fact that he's (or him and backers we don't know about) are keeping OUFC afloat.
Paul B
Well-known member
We can but dream.
Manorlounger
Well-known member
Oh, by the way, it get's worse. The sale of Gavin Whyte will only benefit the club if, the charge over the club payable to Ensco 1070 (Eales) has been settled. Until such time, ALL transfer income must be used to repay that charge.
Manorlounger
Well-known member
And the interest rate is indeed 10% per annum:
Default interest, as in if the club does not meet the payment schedule as laid out in the charge.
Apologies, left out the word not!
Default interest, as in if the club does not meet the payment schedule as laid out in the charge.
Apologies, left out the word not!
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Paul B
Well-known member
Thanks for this even though it is horrendous reading.
So that's what default interest is. Bollox. DE could have been a lot more helpful couldn't he?
& the Gavin Whyte thing is triple bollox isn't it.
Is it that there's no actual end date for the repayments to DE? OUFC just keep paying 10% of the outstanding balance forever and a day?
But if so why is the figure in the 2018 accounts due to other creditors falling within a year £8.7k? What was paid off, if anything, in the subsequent year I wonder.
Big Ronaldo
Well-known member
It all has the look of a ship holed beneath the water line to me?
NottsYellow
Well-known member
Great succinct report as usual Paul. Hit nail on head.
So total rent and service charges over 3 years is £2.818M an average of £939k per annum. If we have 26 matches a year it equates to £36k per match or 1,800 spectators paying £20. If we have access for say 8 hours on matchday it equates to £4,500 per hour.
So total rent and service charges over 3 years is £2.818M an average of £939k per annum. If we have 26 matches a year it equates to £36k per match or 1,800 spectators paying £20. If we have access for say 8 hours on matchday it equates to £4,500 per hour.
