Other European European Super League one step closer?

ESL ? .... it seems Brexit actually didnt mean Brexit then?
 
Not sure what this means?

But was asking in good faith - beyond some superficial differences, at its core how is this different from the Champions League as it exists in 2021? As I understand it it's just going to be (as the 'ESL' clubs see it) a midweek European competition?
It's like saying why not just automatically promote the Hull / Sunderland / Ipswich of League 1. It's not a major variation on what would realistically happen over any given season anyway, we all know they'll make it out, so why not mandate it.
 
So you made an arbitrary decision over which clubs deserved to be categorised as more significant than others who had an equal right to be there??......

.....well done, have a job at the ESL
None of the other clubs matter 🤣
 
https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2...**s-football-fans-finally-agree-on-something/
 
BT Sports say NO.... until they can buy the rights for it!


If Sky and BT were to buy rights, it would jeopardise the relationship between the EPL and UEFA.
 
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Levy has only fired him now, because it takes the spotlight from them joining the super Lge.
Plus they can afford it since every club is getting several hundred million just for signing up.

The implications of this will be felt across football. These clubs will reduce the value of the CL / EL through the commercial rights being worth a fraction of what they currently are, meaning any PL sides who take their place going forward won't receive the money they would get under the current conditions. Leicester and West Ham are both chasing top four this season and Leicester in particular look like they'll probably make it in, which would be worth serious money. Money they have earned through competing on the pitch and bettering those with bigger fanbases and greater resources. This would be stripped away in the future. Yes, the likes of them would probably end up in the CL every year because the 'Big Six' wouldn't be eligible, so you could say that's good news for them even if it makes a mockery of the league table, but it would be worth less money than it is at present if you get in of your own accord, while the ESL clubs who remain in the Premier League would be able to use their even greater financial muscle to dominate the division further. You would never see another Leicester happen, and you would never see the likes of them or Everton getting into Europe and playing against the biggest clubs on the continent. "Great, we're in the CL! Again! We can't wait to earn 20% of what we should've been while the biggest game we can hold out for is against f*cking Valencia!"

Then you've got the potential implications on the wider football pyramid in England, when these clubs inevitably sack off the cups because they can't be arsed and say that their schedules are too busy. No more million pound cup ties that can change a club in a heartbeat, because now you can never get a plum draw and go to Old Trafford, The Emirates, Anfield and so on. Unless of course these clubs decide that they're going to have A and B teams, like when Liverpool sent the first team overseas and the U21 side had to fill in for them in the domestic cup against Aston Villa the night before. They might just decide that we can play their academies more, like we haven't already had enough of that with the EFL Trophy nonsense.

I saw someone earlier defending it by claiming that the clubs don't want to leave any competition they're already in, and that they're being accused of breaking away and forced out by the media. Because obviously these clubs all want to stay in the CL / EL, despite the fact that it isn't possible to fit it all into the schedule, and then play each other in more than one competition at the same time. That makes sense and doesn't totally devalue the entire point of the ESL to begin with. "Tune in on Tuesday for Champions League action as Manchester United take on AC Milan, and then next Wednesday it's the big one as we take you to the European Super League for AC Milan versus Manchester United!"

Honestly.
 
I am inherently against this idea, but I do wonder whether for all the hand-wringing from the pundits on Sky and MOTD yesterday, this actually represents a particularly big shift in European football. It seems to me that the objections currently stem from 1) a sporting merit angle, and 2) a financial angle. But neither of those really holds up on inspection in terms of representing a vast divergence from the existing norm.

In terms of sporting merit, I notice that people object to there being this elite league which a core group of teams will be playing in every year, regardless of their performance. But that does reflect the reality of the Champions League at the moment, and it's very strange for commentators to pretend it doesn't. Sure, in this country the likes of Arsenal and Spurs cementing themsleves in this 'elite' bracket is laughable, but when was the last time Real Madrid or Barcelona weren't in the Champions League? When was the last time Manchester City weren't, having been purchased and bankrolled by a despotic nation state? Or PSG (who will undoubtedly, along with perhaps Lyon, quietly sign up to this as the French representatives)? I really think it's base hypocrisy for pundits, governing bodies and even governments alike to now have an issue with a 'closed shop' arrangement, when the reality is that once you allow football clubs to become the playthings of hedge funds and oil-rich nation states, that arrangement exists in practice anyway. And the 'Super League' would have 'qualification' spots, so the concern about the lack of fairytale stories like Leicester winning the right to play in the 'Big Time' is at least partly catered for.

In terms of finances, the outcry about a handful of elite clubs hoovering up even more money is frankly pretty laughable. To pretend that this hasn't been quietly happening for years anyway is farcical. If there was sincere concern about level financial playing fields from those at the top of the game, nation states, as I say, would not be permitted to purchase football clubs, Premier League revenue would be distributed more generously to the Football League and the powers that be would not be extending existing UEFA competitions (32 --> 36 teams in the Champions League) and adding new ones (this nonsensical new 'UEFA Conference League). Salary and squad caps would be introduced to stop the top clubs purchasing every even slightly talented footballer their scouts lay eyes on. FFP rules would actually be enforced. None of this happens, which makes, for me, the likes of Gary Neville sputtering about 'greed' (on Sky Sports, by the way) seem either deliberately obfuscatory or pitifully ignorant of the realities many clubs face.

I don't know, I'm sure I'm missing something somewhere and I would be grateful if someone could set me straight, but I really do struggle to see how this represents any major variation (for the average fan) from the reality of football in the 21st century. Obviously UEFA are terrified because they'll lose all their most appealing commercial assets, and the owners of 'big' clubs that haven't been invited are jealous that they haven't been invited to suckle at the teet of this enormous new cash cow. But for the typical fan, or spectator, or pundit, does it really change anything?

As an aside, infinitely grateful that I support a team and a club that is removed from all this nonsense. Even without this Super League debacle, I just don't see how you can have, as a fan, any sincere emotional connection to what is essentially a corporate entity with the name of a football club.

Well written and I get your point. One thing I would add is this … the clubs that join this thing would earn massively more than the other clubs in their domestic competitions. This making those competitions farcical. Und so weiter und so fort.
 
Not sure what this means?

But was asking in good faith - beyond some superficial differences, at its core how is this different from the Champions League as it exists in 2021? As I understand it it's just going to be (as the 'ESL' clubs see it) a midweek European competition?

Because you don’t have to qualify for it, and because the “Founding Clubs” will be earning money that puts them at a massive advantage in their own domestic leagues.
 
Plus they can afford it since every club is getting several hundred million just for signing up.

The implications of this will be felt across football. These clubs will reduce the value of the CL / EL through the commercial rights being worth a fraction of what they currently are, meaning any PL sides who take their place going forward won't receive the money they would get under the current conditions. Leicester and West Ham are both chasing top four this season and Leicester in particular look like they'll probably make it in, which would be worth serious money. Money they have earned through competing on the pitch and bettering those with bigger fanbases and greater resources. This would be stripped away in the future. Yes, the likes of them would probably end up in the CL every year because the 'Big Six' wouldn't be eligible, so you could say that's good news for them even if it makes a mockery of the league table, but it would be worth less money than it is at present if you get in of your own accord, while the ESL clubs who remain in the Premier League would be able to use their even greater financial muscle to dominate the division further. You would never see another Leicester happen, and you would never see the likes of them or Everton getting into Europe and playing against the biggest clubs on the continent. "Great, we're in the CL! Again! We can't wait to earn 20% of what we should've been while the biggest game we can hold out for is against f*cking Valencia!"

Then you've got the potential implications on the wider football pyramid in England, when these clubs inevitably sack off the cups because they can't be arsed and say that their schedules are too busy. No more million pound cup ties that can change a club in a heartbeat, because now you can never get a plum draw and go to Old Trafford, The Emirates, Anfield and so on. Unless of course these clubs decide that they're going to have A and B teams, like when Liverpool sent the first team overseas and the U21 side had to fill in for them in the domestic cup against Aston Villa the night before. They might just decide that we can play their academies more, like we haven't already had enough of that with the EFL Trophy nonsense.

I saw someone earlier defending it by claiming that the clubs don't want to leave any competition they're already in, and that they're being accused of breaking away and forced out by the media. Because obviously these clubs all want to stay in the CL / EL, despite the fact that it isn't possible to fit it all into the schedule, and then play each other in more than one competition at the same time. That makes sense and doesn't totally devalue the entire point of the ESL to begin with. "Tune in on Tuesday for Champions League action as Manchester United take on AC Milan, and then next Wednesday it's the big one as we take you to the European Super League for AC Milan versus Manchester United!"

Honestly.
the former being played by respective teams of u18s most likely.... as their U21s are playing in a tournament in Dubai while their u23s are playing in a tournament in Japan or somewhere similar.? :( :mad:
 
Never thought I would say this but I would much rather Swindon survive (and are s**t still) and the self appointed big six all go bust, hate them more. Really hope Leicester and West Ham come 3rd and 4th to really make a point about how the self appointed big six are only doing this because they s**t scared of having to compete for the money they already have a massive advantage competing for.

f**k the rules, f**k the monetary ramifications, f**k the commercial stuff and just boot them out now, would rather Swindon played Reading at Wembley on Sunday for the league cup, at least (saying this through gritted teeth) they are proper football clubs, those six clubs are worse than MK Dons to me now, they are just franchises.
 
I'd love all the 14 none ESL PL clubs when playing a "founder club" to go on the pitch but not really play them as a form of industrial action. So pass amongst themselves, don't bother attacking or defending etc but when playing each other then play properly.

I know it won't happen but it would make a statement.
 
Never thought I would say this but I would much rather Swindon survive (and are s**t still) and the self appointed big six all go bust, hate them more. Really hope Leicester and West Ham come 3rd and 4th to really make a point about how the self appointed big six are only doing this because they s**t scared of having to compete for the money they already have a massive advantage competing for.

f**k the rules, f**k the monetary ramifications, f**k the commercial stuff and just boot them out now, would rather Swindon played Reading at Wembley on Sunday for the league cup, at least (saying this through gritted teeth) they are proper football clubs, those six clubs are worse than MK Dons to me now, they are just franchises.

To be fair all the supporters clubs of the big 6 have publicly gone against the idea. Its just the mega rich owners wanting more money.
 
Plus they can afford it since every club is getting several hundred million just for signing up.

The implications of this will be felt across football. These clubs will reduce the value of the CL / EL through the commercial rights being worth a fraction of what they currently are, meaning any PL sides who take their place going forward won't receive the money they would get under the current conditions. Leicester and West Ham are both chasing top four this season and Leicester in particular look like they'll probably make it in, which would be worth serious money. Money they have earned through competing on the pitch and bettering those with bigger fanbases and greater resources. This would be stripped away in the future. Yes, the likes of them would probably end up in the CL every year because the 'Big Six' wouldn't be eligible, so you could say that's good news for them even if it makes a mockery of the league table, but it would be worth less money than it is at present if you get in of your own accord, while the ESL clubs who remain in the Premier League would be able to use their even greater financial muscle to dominate the division further. You would never see another Leicester happen, and you would never see the likes of them or Everton getting into Europe and playing against the biggest clubs on the continent. "Great, we're in the CL! Again! We can't wait to earn 20% of what we should've been while the biggest game we can hold out for is against f*cking Valencia!"

Then you've got the potential implications on the wider football pyramid in England, when these clubs inevitably sack off the cups because they can't be arsed and say that their schedules are too busy. No more million pound cup ties that can change a club in a heartbeat, because now you can never get a plum draw and go to Old Trafford, The Emirates, Anfield and so on. Unless of course these clubs decide that they're going to have A and B teams, like when Liverpool sent the first team overseas and the U21 side had to fill in for them in the domestic cup against Aston Villa the night before. They might just decide that we can play their academies more, like we haven't already had enough of that with the EFL Trophy nonsense.

I saw someone earlier defending it by claiming that the clubs don't want to leave any competition they're already in, and that they're being accused of breaking away and forced out by the media. Because obviously these clubs all want to stay in the CL / EL, despite the fact that it isn't possible to fit it all into the schedule, and then play each other in more than one competition at the same time. That makes sense and doesn't totally devalue the entire point of the ESL to begin with. "Tune in on Tuesday for Champions League action as Manchester United take on AC Milan, and then next Wednesday it's the big one as we take you to the European Super League for AC Milan versus Manchester United!"

Honestly.
But it won't be weekdays only for long. They will soon move to the prime slots over the weekend... as sure as night follows day.
 
I don't know, I'm sure I'm missing something somewhere and I would be grateful if someone could set me straight, but I really do struggle to see how this represents any major variation (for the average fan) from the reality of football in the 21st century. Obviously UEFA are terrified because they'll lose all their most appealing commercial assets, and the owners of 'big' clubs that haven't been invited are jealous that they haven't been invited to suckle at the teet of this enormous new cash cow. But for the typical fan, or spectator, or pundit, does it really change anything?

I think it really depends on what happens next, because this does set up a gigantic game of chicken.

The next move is going to be on the FIFA/UEFA/Major European Leagues. Will they have the balls - as they should - to kick these 12/15 teams out of their competitions, and ban participating players from the international scene?

If they do, then it's on the 12/15 clubs. Will they be willing to see this through and set up a closed shop, NFL-style league which will be beloved by billions of armchair TV viewers across the world but absolutely hated by the vast majority of fans in their own countries? Completely alienate basically all your real fans in pursuit of the almight dollar?

If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then this will be a big change. I don't know if Sky will be able to get out of their current TV deal if the 'Big 6' are gone, but even if they can't then the next Premier League TV deal will look more like the Championship deal than the current one i.e. broadcast revenues will be about an order of magnitude lower.

They won't then be able to pay player salaries without most of the remaining clubs going bust, so the players union will be forced to the table to discuss an across-the-board salary reduction - which will presumably have to be coupled with any player that wants to being able to walk away from their deals.

So we'll end up with a weird two tier structure. An NFL-style European Super League hoovering up all the money, and an old school-style English football pyramid with clubs and players earning about a tenth of what they do today - and probably disappearing to the ESL to rake in the big cash as soon as they show some ability. Will obviously impact the other 14 Premier League sides the most, then the Championship, and the impact will be less the further down the pyramid you go.


But I suspect that FIFA/UEFA/Major European Leagues will be so terrified of that prospect that they'll make a lot of noise and then cave - meaning that all we have is a slightly more codified version of the tiered system that already exists......
 
I think it really depends on what happens next, because this does set up a gigantic game of chicken.

The next move is going to be on the FIFA/UEFA/Major European Leagues. Will they have the balls - as they should - to kick these 12/15 teams out of their competitions, and ban participating players from the international scene?

If they do, then it's on the 12/15 clubs. Will they be willing to see this through and set up a closed shop, NFL-style league which will be beloved by billions of armchair TV viewers across the world but absolutely hated by the vast majority of fans in their own countries? Completely alienate basically all your real fans in pursuit of the almight dollar?

If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then this will be a big change. I don't know if Sky will be able to get out of their current TV deal if the 'Big 6' are gone, but even if they can't then the next Premier League TV deal will look more like the Championship deal than the current one i.e. broadcast revenues will be about an order of magnitude lower.

They won't then be able to pay player salaries without most of the remaining clubs going bust, so the players union will be forced to the table to discuss an across-the-board salary reduction - which will presumably have to be coupled with any player that wants to being able to walk away from their deals.

So we'll end up with a weird two tier structure. An NFL-style European Super League hoovering up all the money, and an old school-style English football pyramid with clubs and players earning about a tenth of what they do today - and probably disappearing to the ESL to rake in the big cash as soon as they show some ability. Will obviously impact the other 14 Premier League sides the most, then the Championship, and the impact will be less the further down the pyramid you go.


But I suspect that FIFA/UEFA/Major European Leagues will be so terrified of that prospect that they'll make a lot of noise and then cave - meaning that all we have is a slightly more codified version of the tiered system that already exists......
It’s just come out that any players in this new league will be banned from playing for their national sides.
 
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