End of the world...or unseasonable weather

ZeroTheHero

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Surely, if there is even the slightest chance that the scientists are even slightly right, then it is sensible to take steps. If by some chance they are all wrong, then we will have cut down on what we know are harmful emissions, saved rainforests and preserved some of the fossil fuel reserves for the future, as well as developing cheaper cleaner technologies. If on the other hand they are right, we will have gone some way to ensuring that our children and grandchildren have somewhere halfway decent to live.

It's all to easy to find someone to rebut anything (evolution, moon landings, the shape of the earth etc etc) but using that as an excuse to put your fingers in your ears, deride anything that you don't want to hear and to just carry on doing the wrong thing because you don't want it to be true is selfish childishness of the highest order. (I'm looking at you Agent Orange!!!)
 

Gary Baldi

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Theres a huge amount that countries and industries can do to change things- like the Green New Deal posited here and in the US - hugely investing in recyclable energy and cutting back on Carbon,. Will I listen to 99 per cent of scientists around the worlg or the bloke who draws Dilbert? that's not a rebuttal of any sort.
The Green New Deal is a wonderful piece of satire. Truly wonderful.

If AOC had spent time proof reading it, understanding how us proles live our lives and more globally, it might get to something worth it. As it is, it's impractical and naive. And insanely expensive.

No ta. Would rather we focus on working on getting countries like India and China to be better custodians of the world!
 

Essexyellows

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Is there a thing a few middle class westerners can do to halt a change caused by 5,000 years of human “progress”, in a world with an increasing population mostly in the non western areas? Is anyone really willing to make the changes necessary to at least arrest it? How do you force billions of people to live poorer lives around the world?

If it is happening nothing can be done about it so it’s a bit pointless worrying about it, might as well wear shorts and sunglasses and enjoy it rather than put a coat on and moan about it.
^^^this..... "we" are piddling into the wind...
 

Sarge

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The Green New Deal is a wonderful piece of satire. Truly wonderful.

If AOC had spent time proof reading it, understanding how us proles live our lives and more globally, it might get to something worth it. As it is, it's impractical and naive. And insanely expensive.

No ta. Would rather we focus on working on getting countries like India and China to be better custodians of the world!
Im with you re getting the likes of India &China to comply &adhere to agreements about pollution etc @Gary Baldi , however , its probably just me who would be concerned that either or both india &china would prove to be similar custodians of the world as our slum landlord is as (self appointed) custodian of oufc ? ;)
 

Oufcrealist

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Umm that was weather! There is a difference between day to day weather and longer term climate trends. As you well know!
Very true. It was an extreme weather event and these are becoming more frequent year on year around the world. Just because we had well below average temperatures for over a month, it doesn't mean the overall climate is not getting warmer.
 

Essexyellows

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Umm that was weather! There is a difference between day to day weather and longer term climate trends. As you well know!
Yup, and there is diddly we can do about it whilst billions of people in China, India etc etc churn it out in the name of progress & improvement...................
 

Pete Burrett

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Yup, and there is diddly we can do about it whilst billions of people in China, India etc etc churn it out in the name of progress & improvement...................
I find it hard to be critical of China and India modernising as quickly as they can. It's exactly what we started doing 250 years ago.I suppose the difference is that in 1750 we couldn't possibly have envisaged future carnage, whereas China and India can.
 

AbbeyOx

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Yup, and there is diddly we can do about it whilst billions of people in China, India etc etc churn it out in the name of progress & improvement...................
but if everyone thinks like that nothing will change. small steps and all that
 

Marked Ox

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^^^this..... "we" are piddling into the wind...
Well this planet is f**ked then if all countries take that attitude.

By investing in and developing clean energy that effects what we do reducing our impact on the world. Already due to moves (brought about by the EU) on energy efficiency in things like Vacuums, White Goods etc has had a real impact in the UK/EU. Those standards will ultimately travel around the world.

Investment in carbon capture etc is also important with studies like this displaying interesting possibilities whilst being practical:


Investment by a few countries in a number of technologies have driven others to follow (going back to railways as an example) so there is no reason so this could easily be the case with China/India.

Doing nothing isn't an option and getting in early on these technologies can be very good for the economy (as China have done with Solar panels etc).
 

Gary Baldi

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I find it hard to be critical of China and India modernising as quickly as they can. It's exactly what we started doing 250 years ago.I suppose the difference is that in 1750 we couldn't possibly have envisaged future carnage, whereas China and India can.
The problem is twofold. One, the scale of the change is vastly different in terms of population size and land mass, and secondly it's a heavy anchor to the frippery of what the UK can do. We can turn the lights of each week, but when China are happily investing in coal power stations, it makes our efforts rather moot.
 

Pete Burrett

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The problem is twofold. One, the scale of the change is vastly different in terms of population size and land mass, and secondly it's a heavy anchor to the frippery of what the UK can do. We can turn the lights of each week, but when China are happily investing in coal power stations, it makes our efforts rather moot.
And it doesn't help that the leader of the free world doesn't even believe climate change is happening!
 

Marked Ox

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The problem is twofold. One, the scale of the change is vastly different in terms of population size and land mass, and secondly it's a heavy anchor to the frippery of what the UK can do. We can turn the lights of each week, but when China are happily investing in coal power stations, it makes our efforts rather moot.
How about looking at it in selfish terms:

  • creating a competitive advantage (look at how the cost of wind power has dropped considerable),
  • becoming leaders in new technologies,
  • saving money for individuals by reducing energy useage through energy efficiency.
  • Improving our own environment such as air quality and water pollution.

Then it is not about noble aims/saving the planet but purely selfish benefits for ourselves and our country. But this still has contributes to a world environment benefit.
 

Gary Baldi

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any specific criticism? no didn't think so.
It's wholly unachievable!
  1. Net zero greenhouse gas emissions in 10 years
  2. meet 100 percent of power demand with renewables
  3. Where are all the heating engineers coming from?
What does this mean to Joe the Plumber? It's a lot of vague waffle.
  1. Invest in sustainable businesses including cooperatives and non-profits by providing grants and loans with an emphasis on small, locally-based companies that keep the wealth created by local labor circulating in the community rather than being drained off to enrich absentee investors.
  2. Create a Commission for Economic Democracy to provide publicity, training, education, and direct financing for cooperative development and for democratic reforms to make government agencies, private associations, and business enterprises more participatory. We will strengthen democracy via participatory budgeting and institutions that encourage local initiative and democratic decision-making.
  3. End unemployment in America once and for all by guaranteeing a job at a living wage for every American willing and able to work. A Full Employment Program will create up to 20 million jobs, both directly and indirectly, by implementing a nationally-funded, locally-controlled, direct employment initiative replacing unemployment offices with local employment offices. The government will be the employer of last resort, offering jobs meeting community-identified needs in the public and non-profit sectors to take up any slack in private for-profit sector employment. These will include jobs in sustainable energy and energy efficiency retrofitting, mass transit and “complete streets” that promote safe bike and pedestrian traffic, regional food systems based on sustainable organic agriculture, clean manufacturing, infrastructure, and public services (education, youth programs, child care, senior care, etc). Communities will use a process of broad stakeholder input and democratic decision making to fairly design and implement these programs.
Smells like a bureaucracy to me!

It reeks of trillions of investment in a pipe dream, rather than a co-operative global way to be a better custodian of our planet.

And it doesn't help that the leader of the free world doesn't even believe climate change is happening!
He is questioning the science, as he has the right to. One niggle I have is we such a small set of data that we are looking at, it's very hard to work out what is going on. But it does not preclude to being better custodians of the planet and trying to balance how we all live.
 

AbbeyOx

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if anyone's got spare few minutes and you want to know your carbon footprint, try the below link
mine was 10.33 tonnes co2 which is below uk average
 

Pete Burrett

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He is questioning the science, as he has the right to. One niggle I have is we such a small set of data that we are looking at, it's very hard to work out what is going on. But it does not preclude to being better custodians of the planet and trying to balance how we all live.
When the man clearly doesn't understand the difference between daily weather and longer term climate (as proved several times) any attempt to make him sound like a thinking challenger of science falls a bit flat.
 

Gary Baldi

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How about looking at it in selfish terms:

  • creating a competitive advantage (look at how the cost of wind power has dropped considerable),
  • becoming leaders in new technologies,
  • saving money for individuals by reducing energy useage through energy efficiency.
  • Improving our own environment such as air quality and water pollution.
Then it is not about noble aims/saving the planet but purely selfish benefits for ourselves and our country. But this still has contributes to a world environment benefit.
Agree. We don't need Green New Deals to do that! We just need to get on with it. Every decade we are told the end is nigh and so far, we're still here, which makes each new OMG the end is nigh every so slightly less believable to those of us who have heard it for the 4th time already.
 

AbbeyOx

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just tried another one for comparison and is 8.9 tonnes
 

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