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The land has already been given up. Russia Illegally annexed Crimea in 2014 in that time nobody had lifted a finger not one shot fired no attempts made to retake it infact the delightful Europeans (who many on this thread have been co complimentary about) went balls deep into Russian energy building Nordstream 2. I would have much more sympathy if any of our European partners had decided to fund retaking it but of course they didnt. Best to rely on the Americans to organise pay for everything.
 
The land has already been given up. Russia Illegally annexed Crimea in 2014 in that time nobody had lifted a finger not one shot fired no attempts made to retake it infact the delightful Europeans (who many on this thread have been co complimentary about) went balls deep into Russian energy building Nordstream 2. I would have much more sympathy if any of our European partners had decided to fund retaking it but of course they didnt. Best to rely on the Americans to organise pay for everything.
No, it really hasn't. It was invaded and occupied by an aggressive sovereign state. The fact that the world stood by and allowed it to happen, I will agree with you on in that it was wrong. I'll also agree that Europe tying itself into an almost limitless supply of cheap energy from Russia was also wrong - it was lazy and short-sighted and the risk it would end up this way was always high with an upredicatble pathological liar like Putin on the gas taps. But as the saying goes, two (or several) wrongs don't make a right.

Crimea belongs to Russia no more than Canada or Greenland belong to the US.

The fact that Trump is giving Putin practically everything he wants is abhorrent, but not surprising as all Trump cares about are those beautiful rare earths. What makes it even more sickening is the fact that Trump continues to allow Russia to keep Ukraine on it's knees as a way of weakening their negotiating position so that he can maximise the benefit for the US a the expense of just about everyone else.

I know you struggle to deal with the human emotion of such situations and see it simply as a transactional bit of business - you've said as much in previous posts (which explains why you're so pro MAGA, even if you profess to dislike Trump as a person), so there's not really any point in trying to get you to at least acknowledge what a terrible situation this is and it is one that Trump is happy to perpetuate for his own ends regardless of the terrible human sacrifice that continues to be made every day.
 
Even worse than the tories at the end of Richie riches reign???

Yeah..we all thought that was the Tory low point, but they have somehow managed to keep digging๐Ÿคฃ

Slightly off topic, but the cheerleaders for SKS seem absent from that thread............ ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ

The nub of it is a lot of people are p***ed of with the political system and politicians ......... and lies.
waspi.jpg
 
God you worship Trumpโ€ฆ.what you got a picture of that tw@t above your bed
If you can't read all the criticisms i have made of Trump Bazzer then there is really no hope for you. If you're interested its Sir Lewis Hamilton above my bed!

If anyone can give me a realistic solution to end this war that the US and any other interested parties are prepared to pay for then lets hear them? Putin having illegally invaded is not going to hand it back. Russia are prepared to sacrifice millions of men to the meat grinder just like in WW2. So what's the plan? I'm on record, I'm a Hawk (US speaking) I would take money from pension credit winter fuel and other welfare projects to boost defence spemnding to 6% to spend on this so long as the rest of Europe does too. Grind down Russia sacrificing millions of people from both sides to permanently weaken the Russian state. However i really dont think too much of the European electorate are going to agree. The US has already said it doesn't want to pay.

So what's next?
Perhaps Bazzer could start a go fund me page and Yellowforum's member pay the 200Billion or whatever is needed.

and yes Sheik i am removing the emotion from it because at the end of the day emotionally charged situations rarely help. I want to see Russia permanently weakened I want to see European defence strengthened and become independent of the US. I am prepared to pay for it i just dont think the rest of the country and continent are prepared to pay the price.
 
As an aside i do believe in self determination so whilst Crimea, Dontsk and Luhansk regions are part of Ukraine like Greenland is part of Denmark they should ultimately have the right to decide in democratic elections where they want to be ruled from. I really dont think that is too radical.

We are just going through the process of giving up the Chagos Islands as instructed to do so by foreign courts.
 
If you can't read all the criticisms i have made of Trump Bazzer then there is really no hope for you. If you're interested its Sir Lewis Hamilton above my bed!

If anyone can give me a realistic solution to end this war that the US and any other interested parties are prepared to pay for then lets hear them? Putin having illegally invaded is not going to hand it back. Russia are prepared to sacrifice millions of men to the meat grinder just like in WW2. So what's the plan? I'm on record, I'm a Hawk (US speaking) I would take money from pension credit winter fuel and other welfare projects to boost defence spemnding to 6% to spend on this so long as the rest of Europe does too. Grind down Russia sacrificing millions of people from both sides to permanently weaken the Russian state. However i really dont think too much of the European electorate are going to agree. The US has already said it doesn't want to pay.

So what's next?
Perhaps Bazzer could start a go fund me page and Yellowforum's member pay the 200Billion or whatever is needed.

and yes Sheik i am removing the emotion from it because at the end of the day emotionally charged situations rarely help. I want to see Russia permanently weakened I want to see European defence strengthened and become independent of the US. I am prepared to pay for it i just dont think the rest of the country and continent are prepared to pay the price.
Well maybe if Trump donโ€™t cozy up to Putin and allowed weapons to be fired by all parties who have given missiles then maybe we might get Putin to back down, off course there is the threat of nuclear war but I donโ€™t believe Putin would start firing Nukes. But Trump and is stupid pal Vance are cozying up to Moscow by trying to starve the Ukraine of any help.
If by chance the Ukraine cede the land that Russia have invaded then i would hope Zelensky would give Trump and Vance the finger with regard to the natural minerals then in the other hand I would hope Europe would be in The Ukraine form security reasons.
 
Slightly off topic, but the cheerleaders for SKS seem absent from that thread............ ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ

The nub of it is a lot of people are p***ed of with the political system and politicians ......... and lies.
View attachment 26786
They were given an extra five years to work, to ease the planning of their retirement!
What exactly is the problem for them?
 
If by chance the Ukraine cede the land that Russia have invaded then i would hope Zelensky would give Trump and Vance the finger with regard to the natural minerals then in the other hand I would hope Europe would be in The Ukraine form security reasons.

Probably that would be reasonable. The only thing is without the US companies there what is to stop the Russians coming back for seconds. The US position currently is they aren't paying for Ukraines defence any more. If no mineral deal and no US companies in Ukraine why would Russia just stop? as they can finish the job now they have the upper hand. Ukraine needs someone to keep the peace. Europe have made it clear the "coalition of the willing" needs the US security guarantees to operate in Ukraine. They have not (as i said upthread and people didn't believe but obviously the governments do) got sufficient nuclear capacity to be a deterrent to russian attack.
 
If you can't read all the criticisms i have made of Trump Bazzer then there is really no hope for you. If you're interested its Sir Lewis Hamilton above my bed!

If anyone can give me a realistic solution to end this war that the US and any other interested parties are prepared to pay for then lets hear them? Putin having illegally invaded is not going to hand it back. Russia are prepared to sacrifice millions of men to the meat grinder just like in WW2. So what's the plan? I'm on record, I'm a Hawk (US speaking) I would take money from pension credit winter fuel and other welfare projects to boost defence spemnding to 6% to spend on this so long as the rest of Europe does too. Grind down Russia sacrificing millions of people from both sides to permanently weaken the Russian state. However i really dont think too much of the European electorate are going to agree. The US has already said it doesn't want to pay.

So what's next?
Perhaps Bazzer could start a go fund me page and Yellowforum's member pay the 200Billion or whatever is needed.

and yes Sheik i am removing the emotion from it because at the end of the day emotionally charged situations rarely help. I want to see Russia permanently weakened I want to see European defence strengthened and become independent of the US. I am prepared to pay for it i just dont think the rest of the country and continent are prepared to pay the price.
So in your world the bullies win. I genuinely thought WWII and the European/US alliance was meant to end that approach. You're a dinosaur who cheerleads for dinosaur and you're too blind to see it.
 
Probably that would be reasonable. The only thing is without the US companies there what is to stop the Russians coming back for seconds. The US position currently is they aren't paying for Ukraines defence any more. If no mineral deal and no US companies in Ukraine why would Russia just stop? as they can finish the job now they have the upper hand. Ukraine needs someone to keep the peace. Europe have made it clear the "coalition of the willing" needs the US security guarantees to operate in Ukraine. They have not (as i said upthread and people didn't believe but obviously the governments do) got sufficient nuclear capacity to be a deterrent to russian attack.
If Russia do you think Putin would stop at their border with Poland, Slovakia and Romania? I just feel sorry for the poor bastard who the secret service shot and killed if he hadnโ€™t misssd I wouldnโ€™t be sorry for him.
Trump wants out of NATO he has made direct threats to take Greenland any way he can he wants to control the Gulf of Mexico tbh heโ€™s no different to Putin.
 
If Russia do you think Putin would stop at their border with Poland, Slovakia and Romania? I just feel sorry for the poor bastard who the secret service shot and killed if he hadnโ€™t misssd I wouldnโ€™t be sorry for him.
Trump wants out of NATO he has made direct threats to take Greenland any way he can he wants to control the Gulf of Mexico tbh heโ€™s no different to Putin.
Trump wants out of Nato because the spending figures are ridiculous from a US perspective. Europe has taken advantage for years as describes by every president since bush jr both democrat and republican. (Not going over this because I've already provided evidence and links). And no I don't think he would stop thats why I want to spend big on defence. To seriously deplete the Russian army using Ukraine men as collateral and to do the fighting for us. However I don't think there is a spending consensus here accross Europe. There certainly isn't from the US who have just elected a leader who stated he wasn't going to fund this any more. I don't like Trump removing intelligence sharing (that lasted about 3 days) because that wasn't very costly but cruise missiles at 500k a go adds up for the us taxpayer. Who has an aggressive China threat now to deal with.

Most people on here are saying they want the ststus quo which Americans pay for. Now the US electorate has spoken and elected Trump what is your solution? How do we end the war or do we just carry on until Ukraine runs out if men?
 
he has made direct threats to take Greenland any way he can he wants to control the Gulf of Mexico tbh heโ€™s no different to Putin.
So this bit isn't true is it can you share links that back it up? He wanted to rename the gulf of Mexico which he can do. The French don't call the English Channel that name. On the way of taking greenland again I challenge you to share evidence many of your posts have lacked it so far. This link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_United_States_acquisition_of_Greenland only show attempts buy it. Which has happened multiple times in US history. They did occupy by force during ww2 I should add to stop Germany getting a foothold.
 
So this bit isn't true is it can you share links that back it up? He wanted to rename the gulf of Mexico which he can do. The French don't call the English Channel that name. On the way of taking greenland again I challenge you to share evidence many of your posts have lacked it so far. This link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_United_States_acquisition_of_Greenland only show attempts buy it. Which has happened multiple times in US history. They did occupy by force during ww2 I should add to stop Germany getting a foothold.


I guess it depends what he means by โ€œone way or anotherโ€

Did he mean outright purchase, hire purchase, lease or personal contract purchase?

Sounds like a threat to me ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ
 
Trump wants out of Nato because the spending figures are ridiculous from a US perspective. Europe has taken advantage for years as describes by every president since bush jr both democrat and republican. (Not going over this because I've already provided evidence and links). And no I don't think he would stop thats why I want to spend big on defence. To seriously deplete the Russian army using Ukraine men as collateral and to do the fighting for us. However I don't think there is a spending consensus here accross Europe. There certainly isn't from the US who have just elected a leader who stated he wasn't going to fund this any more. I don't like Trump removing intelligence sharing (that lasted about 3 days) because that wasn't very costly but cruise missiles at 500k a go adds up for the us taxpayer. Who has an aggressive China threat now to deal with.

Most people on here are saying they want the ststus quo which Americans pay for. Now the US electorate has spoken and elected Trump what is your solution? How do we end the war or do we just carry on until Ukraine runs out if men?
Bidenโ€™s plan of supporting Ukraine with arms would have pushed Russia back to its borders within another year or so. Without a single American life lost.
It would have also crippled a long standing adversary and possibly even toppled Putin.

Bidenโ€™s government wanted to go further and faster, but the Republican majority in congress wouldnโ€™t allow it!

Also, on the cost front. The USA has been sending end of life missiles and munitions to Ukraine. The cost of replacing them would fall on the American taxpayer regardless of if they were used or not.

So there we have it. A credible plan to end the war.
 

I guess it depends what he means by โ€œone way or anotherโ€

Did he mean outright purchase, hire purchase, lease or personal contract purchase?

Sounds like a threat to me ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ
He also said below from the same speech

We strongly support your right to determine your own future, and if you choose, we welcome you into the United States of America,โ€ he said about halfway through his 90-minute speech.

Doesn't sound very occupation like.
 
He also said below from the same speech

We strongly support your right to determine your own future, and if you choose, we welcome you into the United States of America,โ€ he said about halfway through his 90-minute speech.

Doesn't sound very occupation like.
"But we need it really for international, for world security, and I think weโ€™re going to get it. One way or the other, weโ€™re going to get it".

I think that's the occupation-y bit.
 
Bidenโ€™s plan of supporting Ukraine with arms would have pushed Russia back to its borders within another year or so.
That is conjecture it may be true it may not. Nobody knows. The rest fair enough. However the solution you prooosed does sound like yet again the us taxpayer paying for it. And damn those democratic institutions holding the president to account.
 
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He also said below from the same speech

We strongly support your right to determine your own future, and if you choose, we welcome you into the United States of America,โ€ he said about halfway through his 90-minute speech.

Doesn't sound very occupation like.

Oh do come on. Donโ€™t be naive.

If you choose, we welcome you.

So, what if they donโ€™t choose??
 
"But we need it really for international, for world security, and I think weโ€™re going to get it. One way or the other, weโ€™re going to get it".

I think that's the occupation-y bit.
One way or another I'm going to get a toyota pick up truck this year. That doesn't mean I will take it by force.

Let's see where we are in 4 years time. Will the us occupy greenland by then? I doubt it. It's just trumps bravado and blusture, like him finishing the Ukraine war in a day, rishi saying he would stop the boats or many things that come from two tier kiers mouth (although he is better than the other two) . Greenland could do a minerals deal with Europe and we can get troops in there first alongside the few hundred US personnel at puffnik.
 
One way or another I'm going to get a toyota pick up truck this year. That doesn't mean I will take it by force.

Let's see where we are in 4 years time. Will the us occupy greenland by then? I doubt it. It's just trumps bravado and blusture, like him finishing the Ukraine war in a day, rishi saying he would stop the boats or many things that come from two tier kiers mouth (although he is better than the other two) . Greenland could do a minerals deal with Europe and we can get troops in there first alongside the few hundred US personnel at puffnik.

But if force is one of the options on the table then itโ€™s not really a fair negotiation is it? If the UFC heavyweight champion says to you he is either going to give you ten quid for your car or take the keys off you anyway then itโ€™s not really a negotiation, you either take a pittance or get knocked out and lose the car anyway. Not like Denmark/Greenland can fight the US.
 
That is conjecture it may be true it may not. Nobody knows. The rest fair enough. However the dolution you prooosed does sound like yet again the us taxpayer paying for it. And damn thise democratic institutions holding the president to account.
Every plan is conjecture to begin with.
But in this case, itโ€™s very difficult to see how Russia could have had an answer to continued American support. Russiaโ€™s options were beyond limited, if non existent.
 
One way or another I'm going to get a toyota pick up truck this year. That doesn't mean I will take it by force.

Let's see where we are in 4 years time. Will the us occupy greenland by then? I doubt it. It's just trumps bravado and blusture, like him finishing the Ukraine war in a day, rishi saying he would stop the boats or many things that come from two tier kiers mouth (although he is better than the other two) . Greenland could do a minerals deal with Europe and we can get troops in there first alongside the few hundred US personnel at puffnik.
Although I understand what you're saying here, a Toyota is a product which is designed to be coveted and owned. Nobody loses from you having it. So if you say "I'm going to have that Toyota one way or another", the joke is that there is an undertone that you actually will take it by force if necessary.

Greenland isn't an item, it's a nation with citizens. Trump has recently refused to rule out using military force to get it.

Where I do agree with you is that this appears to be bluster from Trump. I could accept that from normal politicians. My only worry is what happens if Trump is actually mad enough to escalate this. He's already doing other things which are anti-democratic.

This is just a green light for Russian and Chinese imperialism.
 
They were given an extra five years to work, to ease the planning of their retirement!
What exactly is the problem for them?

Except that many were not given adequate notice and some got as little as 12 months notice if at all. The Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman (PHSO) report found that the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) delayed sending letters to affected women by 28 months, so the timeframe "to ease the planning" was far shorter and unfair to many.

At the same time men were given 6 years notice of a 1 year increase in retirement age.
 
But if force is one of the options on the table then itโ€™s not really a fair negotiation is it? If the UFC heavyweight champion says to you he is either going to give you ten quid for your car or take the keys off you anyway then itโ€™s not really a negotiation, you either take a pittance or get knocked out and lose the car anyway. Not like Denmark/Greenland can fight the US.
Isn't this what Ukraine is facing, except (a) they weren't offered ten quid in the first place (b) your big mate, who had been replacing your gumshield and wiping the blood from your eyes has now decided to referee the contest and (c) the rest of your mates are all stood five paces away, shouting "Hit him Uke, we've got your back".....
 
One way or another I'm going to get a toyota pick up truck this year. That doesn't mean I will take it by force.

Let's see where we are in 4 years time. Will the us occupy greenland by then? I doubt it. It's just trumps bravado and blusture, like him finishing the Ukraine war in a day, rishi saying he would stop the boats or many things that come from two tier kiers mouth (although he is better than the other two) . Greenland could do a minerals deal with Europe and we can get troops in there first alongside the few hundred US personnel at puffnik.

You are only getting a Toyota pick up truck if someone wants to sell you one, otherwise you'll have to steal one.

Toyota picks ups are also reasonably ubiquitous. There is only one Greenland

Silly comparison.
 
Trump wants out of Nato because the spending figures are ridiculous from a US perspective. Europe has taken advantage for years as describes by every president since bush jr both democrat and republican. (Not going over this because I've already provided evidence and links). And no I don't think he would stop thats why I want to spend big on defence. To seriously deplete the Russian army using Ukraine men as collateral and to do the fighting for us. However I don't think there is a spending consensus here accross Europe. There certainly isn't from the US who have just elected a leader who stated he wasn't going to fund this any more. I don't like Trump removing intelligence sharing (that lasted about 3 days) because that wasn't very costly but cruise missiles at 500k a go adds up for the us taxpayer. Who has an aggressive China threat now to deal with.

Most people on here are saying they want the ststus quo which Americans pay for. Now the US electorate has spoken and elected Trump what is your solution? How do we end the war or do we just carry on until Ukraine runs out if men?
Trump and Vance are tw@ts of the highest order
 
One way or another I'm going to get a toyota pick up truck this year. That doesn't mean I will take it by force.

Let's see where we are in 4 years time. Will the us occupy greenland by then? I doubt it. It's just trumps bravado and blusture, like him finishing the Ukraine war in a day, rishi saying he would stop the boats or many things that come from two tier kiers mouth (although he is better than the other two) . Greenland could do a minerals deal with Europe and we can get troops in there first alongside the few hundred US personnel at puffnik.
Starmer also said he would stop the boats and weโ€™ve had new records of crossings since Starmer has been in power
 
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