QR
Well-known member
And this hasn't happened in 14 years of Tory rule why?
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National News Disorder & Protests
- Thread starter Essexyellows
- Start date
The problem is that you're now introducing a two tier burden of proof into the criminal judicial system.
Juries are already supposed to be convicting murderers on a 'beyond reasonable doubt' basis. If you introduce a new, top 'Zero Doubt' tier, then you're essentially admitting that you're sending everyone else in the second tier to prison for the whole of their lives despite not being entirely sure that they did it. If you are a juror on a murder trial, you hear all the evidence and the arguments and you still have doubt that the person did it......you should be voting to acquit, or you're not doing your job.
From my perspective, 'Not guilty', 'Guilty' and 'Probably Guilty' is a pretty weak, half-arsed system of justice for the most serious crimes that carry life-changing sentences.
(which is why balance of probabilities is strictly kept for civil courts where the punishment is not going to destroy a life)
Wandering Yellow
Well-known member
Sorry I wasn't ignoring you mate, busy period in my life right now!
I just don't agree with you that because John Kelly said Trump is a fascist that makes it true. Nor do the vast majority of Americans or even (although hysterical and hyperbolic as usual) the Guardian op-piece here.
Kelly is hitting out at Trump because he has fallen out with him. No matter how much you respect him or think other people also do, that's why.
Trump has done stupid and irresponsible things, although I agree with him on voted ID. Being able to vote without ID is genuinely insane and damages the integrity of elections. You need ID to drink, drive a car, buy cigarettes, but not vote? Utter nonsense. With that being said what he said on January the 6th was madness.
Even left-wing allies of yours on here seem to think Trump isn't a facist but "would be if he could be", Trump ran the country for four years without being a fascist.
I actually read through this article of things Trump did whilst president: https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...tration-biggest-impact-policy-analysis-451479
This is not what a fascist does. Mussolini, Hitler, that is fascism. Trump seems to actively want smaller government sometimes rather than autocratic and authoritarian control a fascist would want. Of all 30 of the major things he did in office, not one strikes me as truly fascist.
The word fascism is being thrown around to stir emotion and get people to go out there and vote.
I do laugh at the modern day left, if it was Harris who had survived two assassination attempts there would be utter meltdown and it would be everywhere that this election was a final fight against fascism. But it was Trump so it's basically been forgotten. The double standard is shocking.
I think huge amounts of people all over "the west" are sick and tired of politicians who duck questions and are evasive like Kamala Harris. I listened to that huge Joe Rogan Podcast with Trump, a pretty tedious listen at times and yet he is still clearly a much better orator than Harris is. His ramblings about "tariffs" did strike me as utter nonsense, but he comes across as a pretty good deal-maker and negotiator.
I wouldn't put the abilities of Harris to communicate as much better than Bidens.
Scotchegg
Well-known member
Fraud, sexual assaults, rape, stealing from a charity, inciting violence, hiding official documents, links to Epstein, Diddy and others, dodgy financial dealings, links to Russia, and absolutely bonkers statements about cats and dogs being eaten, injecting bleach to kill covid etc, and disturbing comments about sex with his daughter. And we're talking about what is or isn't fascism?
The fact that anyone is putting their faith in Trump, or that Harris isn't 20 points up in the polls shows how fucked up America and their politics are.
The fact that anyone is putting their faith in Trump, or that Harris isn't 20 points up in the polls shows how fucked up America and their politics are.
Wandering Yellow
Well-known member
Centre-left presidents and politicians do these things as well. But it's ok when they do it because orange man bad.
Eric Blair
Well-known member
Ultimately I disagree with you - and I won’t repeat myself - but I appreciate your response and the time that went into that post.
Scotchegg
Well-known member
Can you list the centre-left presidents who have been found guilt of criminal offences, liable for civil cases of rape, incited violence against the state or have been found to have defrauded charities?
PottersRightBoot
Well-known member
No. The biggest problem is that they’re both idiots. Why can’t 380 million Americans choose candidates who are vaguely sentient?
chuckbert
Well-known member
Just picking up on this point again. I’m not aware of any evidence that voter identification solves more problems than it causes.
It can stop fraudulent voting, but that has been demonstrated to be vanishingly small. At the same time it puts whole chunks of people off voting. Indeed there are people with not too different views to you who are against it because it increases the chances of the government knowing how you voted.
For example if it were introduced in the uk I would guess that it would even further reduce the number of people who vote, which can’t be a good thing.
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Hey don’t blame all of us!
Under the utterly bonkers primary process, by the time us New Jersey folk got to vote, there was only one candidate left on either side and it had already been that way for three entire months.
I spoiled my ballot rather than vote for Biden (but I did vote for Senate and House candidates because there’s people running that I actually like and respect)
Earlier in the week, I was talking about some of the good parts of the US Constitution i.e. its built in checks and balances. But how the country chooses its politicians is just nonsense. And it ain’t going to change anytime soon because the people who could change things are the ones who benefit from the status quo.
The same reason why we will never get PR here, and are stuck with the massively flawed FPTP system.
Marston Road yellow
Well-known member
The difference this time around is that he has impunity from all of his criminal activities past present and whilst he holds office should he gat back in. He will remove any outstanding actions against him.
That should ring alarm bells.
This time around there would be serious efforts to remove all illegal immigrants and undesirables. 10 million by most estimates (he thinks it’s more like 15 million)
That will mean internment camps, it will mean dragging people from their homes at gunpoint and it will mean children being incarcerated.
He claims he’ll stop the Ukrainian war overnight.
That will only happen if one side looses. If he gets in he will pull the plug on support for Ukraine. It will give Putin the freedom to take Moldova and start putting pressure on other states.
For me that’s what I worry about with Trump.
m
Well-known member
IsleofWightYellow
Well-known member
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgdkvwwwqyo.amp
Does anyone know what her comments on the livestream were beyond calling asylum seekers ‘tramps’? To be given a 9 month custodial sentence I assume there was more to it than that.
Does anyone know what her comments on the livestream were beyond calling asylum seekers ‘tramps’? To be given a 9 month custodial sentence I assume there was more to it than that.
CCYellow
Active member
And people like this are being released early ...
Elle Edwards: Murder accomplice's early release 'a mockery'
Elle Edwards's father, Tim, says releasing Thomas Waring to ease prison overcrowding is a "kick in the teeth".
www.bbc.co.uk
bashamwonderland
Well-known member
Compare that to an entry from the Oxford Mail "Scales of Justice" page from yesterday:
"SAQAB DOGAR, 34, of Tawney Street, Oxford, pleaded guilty to causing harassment by using religiously aggravated language in Oxford on March 21 this year. Dogar must pay costs of £85, a fine of £120 and compensation of £100. "
Lovely.
IsleofWightYellow
Well-known member
Not really a fair comparison unless we know exactly what both said…
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chuckbert
Well-known member
One link (https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/new...r-who-live-streamed-staffordshire-9561613.amp) says:
“Stafford Crown Court was told the 24-year-old repeatedly made racist remarks after trouble flared outside the Holiday Inn Express on in Tamworth on August 4. She told members of the group that they should visit other hotels in the area as part of the disorder“.
IsleofWightYellow
Well-known member
If that’s true I wish the BBC would report that. They have a responsibility to reduce disinformation and give people the full picture of what’s going on at times like this.
Essexyellows
Well-known member
Nope I`m introducing two tiers of sentencing. The burden of proof remains the same it just gives the judge to send "the worst" down the road.