Manager/Coach Des Buckingham

Was Des the right choice & how long does he get?


  • Total voters
    148
  • Poll closed .
You’re really just helping me with my point.

I am assuming the point being made was that you have said Liam was showing signs of thriving whilst Des is drowning.

But we really have no way of knowing how Liam would have managed the situation without his team around him, he may also have been drowning.

The two situations are different and we can’t possibly compare. For all we know Des might be managing the current situation much better than Liam would have done, at which point we would be questioning why we bought him in on the back of his sacking from MKD.

All ifs, buts and maybes.
 
I am assuming the point being made was that you have said Liam was showing signs of thriving whilst Des is drowning.

But we really have no way of knowing how Liam would have managed the situation without his team around him, he may also have been drowning.

The two situations are different and we can’t possibly compare. For all we know Des might be managing the current situation much better than Liam would have done, at which point we would be questioning why we bought him in on the back of his sacking from MKD.

All ifs, buts and maybes.
It was that Liam arrived with an established team which helped him enormously to perform well at this club. Des has no such thing and trying to carve it out of an old guard which takes time and may not ever click. That was the point. Any manager with that close staff unit is simply better equipped to perform well sooner in a club like ours.

We don’t know for sure but we can make educated guesses. I’m not really concerned with what Manning would’ve done, it’s more the model he worked with and that’s why I think another manager with his own Hogg, Price and stat man or whatever would’ve faired better over this period that Des has been in charge.

You only have to look at the performances to see that it isn’t working as well. Results then compound that. I just find it odd that we didn’t go like for like.
 
It was that Liam arrived with an established team which helped him enormously to perform well at this club. Des has no such thing and trying to carve it out of an old guard which takes time and may not ever click. That was the point. Any manager with that close staff unit is simply better equipped to perform well sooner in a club like ours.

We don’t know for sure but we can make educated guesses. I’m not really concerned with what Manning would’ve done, it’s more the model he worked with and that’s why I think another manager with his own Hogg, Price and stat man or whatever would’ve faired better over this period that Des has been in charge.

You only have to look at the performances to see that it isn’t working as well. Results then compound that. I just find it odd that we didn’t go like for like.

Ah, I see what you are saying.

Yes, bring in the whole package where someone is surrounded by familiarity and support and hit the ground running, so to speak.

Saving grace is that whilst we have fallen away we are still there or there about, so hopefully Des is a very quick learner and will reap the benefits of a squad returning to fitness.
 
I've heard nothing on this thread that makes me want to cancel my appointment in May for my life size Des tattoo.

The man has steered us through some choppy waters, our squad is looking so much better than last season, we are challenging for play offs. Progress is being made on the new stadium and we have a fans forum on the way. Rome wasn't built in a day. We are making good progress.
 
We have a real opportunity now.
Good signings made and players coming back
Then Wigan, Northampton and Leyton Orient at home and Wycombe away in the next 4 matches. We really need to kick on and start winning games.
 
I also think goal difference could play a big part this season.

With everyone so close on points and there only being a 5 goal difference amongst the top 5, we drop off quite heavily with a GD of only 12.
 
I also think goal difference could play a big part this season.

With everyone so close on points and there only being a 5 goal difference amongst the top 5, we drop off quite heavily with a GD of only 12.
best Goodwin starts repaying his fee asap
 
The injury crisis is a limitation, yes, but was predominantly affecting forward areas so at the very least we could’ve been defensively solid. Manning managed it with Eastwood, Long, Moore, Findlay and Brown as a back 5 and the same ‘defensive’ midfielders sat in front that Des has available. I’m sorry but I don’t see what the escape is there for Des, we simply haven’t done well enough at ‘hanging in there’. But the debate for me here is not ‘does he have a clue?’, it’s ‘does he have the right balance of ideas, knowledge and experience around him to do this job well?’ and the answer is a resounding no, regardless of the squad,
Surely the answer there is that when Manning took over it was March, there were 10 matches left and the aim was to get approx. 45 - 46 points points as quickly as possible to get safe (I think we already knew by then it wouldn't take 50+ points). When Manning took over we had 36 points, so we were looking for 2 - 3 wins and several draws to achieve the objective.
When Buckingham took over we were either top, or second in the league and we didn't have all the injuries that came along. Browne and Edwards were due back (before getting injured again against Bolton (28/11/23) and Grimsby (2/12/23) respectively. Leigh got injured in international break before Cheltenham (15/11/23) game, Bodin go injured before the Burton game (16/12/23), Murphy got injured during the Burton game and Mills got injured at Coventry (6/1/24).
At what point do you decide to go the Manning 2022-23 route of shutting up shop and going for a 0-0? At Cheltenham when Leigh is missing and Edwards / Browne are a couple of weeks away? Against Burton as you've now lost Bodin, Browne, Edwards and Murphy too? Before Carlisle as you're now missing Mills too?
You can't compare a ten game season where you need to find 10 - 12 points (1 or 1.2 per game) and a season where you're trying to get autos, or play-offs and think you should mirror the same approach, let alone as the injuries got worse over several weeks, they weren't all out injured on day one, allowing for a strategic approach to dealing with them over the next 8 - 10 matches.
 
It's interesting that you as a relative neutral see it this way and I value your opinion as an outisder looking in, so to speak. It's also the opinion of many other neutrals I've spoken to, that we have done pretty well to keep in touch with the play offs despite the manager change and mini injury crisis.

I've been far more concerned with off the pitch stuff than on the pitch recently, and we've gained 3 points from top of the league, an in form side and side with the best home record in the last 3 which is a pretty decent return. Tomorrow is hopefully a game where we get a maximum going into the weekend where I think most would take a point.

Unfortunately for the negative posters on here, Des isn't going anywhere soon. It's unfair to judge him without a full pre season and a squad of players he didn't put together, he's taken on a team that were massively over performing, managed by a snake who has left us in the lurch. There was due to be a drop off, so I think a point off the play offs is perfectly acceptable (I still think we're punching slightly above our weight). If we get into the play offs it'll be a great achievement and a solid foundation to build on and if the communication from the board improves (it desperately needs to) then we can do something similar next season.
I completely agree and I’m feeling very positive for the club. I do think as an outsider I can bring a more dispassionate view. I posted a while back that I find the negativity from some a bit strange as the club is going in the right direction. It’s also important to me as a football fan that the manager represents the club in the right way (ie isn’t a t**t) and Des also brings that. I feel I can really get behind him and the players who always give their all (I’m surprised they could walk off the pitch after the derby game as they’d given everything).

The potential for this football club is ridiculous. Comparisons with where Brighton were 15 years ago aren’t far off the mark.

Also you describe me as a relative neutral. I’m finding that increasingly hard. This is such a brilliant football club with an amazing history. I’m finding it all a bit strange. I was a season ticket holder at Palace for eight years in my youth. Since moving away and having kids I’ve lost touch and not going to the games and not being part of the community is hard. And then being here and going to most home games and picking up my daughter’s enthusiasm. I just pretend I’m not doing anything wrong. Just flirting with Oxford Utd.
 
I completely agree and I’m feeling very positive for the club. I do think as an outsider I can bring a more dispassionate view. I posted a while back that I find the negativity from some a bit strange as the club is going in the right direction. It’s also important to me as a football fan that the manager represents the club in the right way (ie isn’t a t**t) and Des also brings that. I feel I can really get behind him and the players who always give their all (I’m surprised they could walk off the pitch after the derby game as they’d given everything).

The potential for this football club is ridiculous. Comparisons with where Brighton were 15 years ago aren’t far off the mark.

Also you describe me as a relative neutral. I’m finding that increasingly hard. This is such a brilliant football club with an amazing history. I’m finding it all a bit strange. I was a season ticket holder at Palace for eight years in my youth. Since moving away and having kids I’ve lost touch and not going to the games and not being part of the community is hard. And then being here and going to most home games and picking up my daughter’s enthusiasm. I just pretend I’m not doing anything wrong. Just flirting with Oxford Utd.



Yeah, but who will you support when Oxford play against Palace in the Championship next season?😉
 
I completely agree and I’m feeling very positive for the club. I do think as an outsider I can bring a more dispassionate view. I posted a while back that I find the negativity from some a bit strange as the club is going in the right direction. It’s also important to me as a football fan that the manager represents the club in the right way (ie isn’t a t**t) and Des also brings that. I feel I can really get behind him and the players who always give their all (I’m surprised they could walk off the pitch after the derby game as they’d given everything).

The potential for this football club is ridiculous. Comparisons with where Brighton were 15 years ago aren’t far off the mark.

Also you describe me as a relative neutral. I’m finding that increasingly hard. This is such a brilliant football club with an amazing history. I’m finding it all a bit strange. I was a season ticket holder at Palace for eight years in my youth. Since moving away and having kids I’ve lost touch and not going to the games and not being part of the community is hard. And then being here and going to most home games and picking up my daughter’s enthusiasm. I just pretend I’m not doing anything wrong. Just flirting with Oxford Utd.
It's certainly an interesting viewpoint.

I think it's always the case that those more 'involved' with a club are naturally more critical. Man U are an example of this. The outrage their fans have had over recent years seems ridiculous to most other fans - they're still competing at the top end of the PL, spending loads of money etc, what is there to complain about? But they see it differently. I suppose the more emotionally involved you are, the more you expect and have riding on success.

I've previously said that if anything, I don't think Oxford fans are critical enough, so it's interesting to hear an opinion more from the 'outside'.
 
Surely the answer there is that when Manning took over it was March, there were 10 matches left and the aim was to get approx. 45 - 46 points points as quickly as possible to get safe (I think we already knew by then it wouldn't take 50+ points). When Manning took over we had 36 points, so we were looking for 2 - 3 wins and several draws to achieve the objective.
When Buckingham took over we were either top, or second in the league and we didn't have all the injuries that came along. Browne and Edwards were due back (before getting injured again against Bolton (28/11/23) and Grimsby (2/12/23) respectively. Leigh got injured in international break before Cheltenham (15/11/23) game, Bodin go injured before the Burton game (16/12/23), Murphy got injured during the Burton game and Mills got injured at Coventry (6/1/24).
At what point do you decide to go the Manning 2022-23 route of shutting up shop and going for a 0-0? At Cheltenham when Leigh is missing and Edwards / Browne are a couple of weeks away? Against Burton as you've now lost Bodin, Browne, Edwards and Murphy too? Before Carlisle as you're now missing Mills too?
You can't compare a ten game season where you need to find 10 - 12 points (1 or 1.2 per game) and a season where you're trying to get autos, or play-offs and think you should mirror the same approach, let alone as the injuries got worse over several weeks, they weren't all out injured on day one, allowing for a strategic approach to dealing with them over the next 8 - 10 matches.
I suppose no two situations can ever be like for like but I’m looking at what impact they had on the situation they arrived in to. Both were very challenging but in totally different ways.

It’s hard to deny that Manning had a far more significant impact on performances and did better with the hand he was dealt than Buckingham has managed. They’ve both had a transfer window and Des now has a stronger squad than Manning ever had so I’d argue his excuses are now zero other than that his dugout is brimming with mediocrity. He needs to start getting some proper points. Wins. Quickly.

We may be improving but still winless in 5 and I think we can all admit we should’ve won at least one of those games. This season’s Manning never went more than 3 without winning and had his own squad limitations.

What I will say is that Des has done really well with certain individuals. Smyth and Harris stand out to me as players who have done well but then the likes of Rodrigues have regressed when he should be central to our success - that to me feels like the key for Des to start winning games. He needs to unlock Rodrigues.

Manning was at a major advantage to start well given his pre-built team. Buckingham didn’t have that and wasn’t given it and that’s why I feel he was the wrong choice. But we’re through the period that really called for the most experience and I expect Des to come in to his own now. Fantastic squad full of options and a kind run of games to build up a head of steam. He should shine and if he doesn’t, it’s not unfair to question.
 
It's certainly an interesting viewpoint.

I think it's always the case that those more 'involved' with a club are naturally more critical. Man U are an example of this. The outrage their fans have had over recent years seems ridiculous to most other fans - they're still competing at the top end of the PL, spending loads of money etc, what is there to complain about? But they see it differently. I suppose the more emotionally involved you are, the more you expect and have riding on success.

I've previously said that if anything, I don't think Oxford fans are critical enough, so it's interesting to hear an opinion more from the 'outside'.
I see it the opposite way round. Man U have set a precedent of massive success so I think the criticism is more justified. The standards at that club were phenomal. Now compare that with us. Although there needs to be criticism to keep the club accountable and if standards drop significantly fine, but what precedent have we set for such high demands and expectation from some fans? (Yes the 80s were incredible but we massively overperformed for a club of our stature)
Maybe I’m easily pleased, but where we are placed right now and the direction we are going is fantastic after being a non league club only recently. We don’t own our ground (yet!) in hock to kassam for 25 years,and have no assets (except for Brannagan and maybe goodrham) but that doesn’t anywhere near offset the fact we are kept solvent every year by speculative wealthy owners. Comparing us to man u or even a Birmingham or Blackburn expectation wise is delusional.
 
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I see it the opposite way round. Man U have set a precedent of massive success so I think the criticism is more justified. The standards at that club were phenomal. Now compare that with us. Although there needs to be criticism to keep the club accountable and if standards drop significantly fine, but what precedent have we set for such high demands and expectation from some fans? (Yes the 80s were incredible but we massively overperformed for a club of our stature)
Maybe I’m easily pleased, but where we are placed right now and the direction we are going is fantastic after being a non league club only recently. We don’t own our ground (yet!) in hock to kassam for 25 years,and have no assets (except for Brannagan and maybe goodrham) but that doesn’t anywhere near offset the fact we are kept solvent every year by speculative wealthy owners. Comparing us to man u or even a Birmingham or Blackburn expectation wise is delusional.
The quality of football generally in league one is also very good. Technically the players are very strong and in years gone by would have graced the top two tiers easily
 
Des will get the summer to bring in personnel he feels are needed to get us promoted, unless we
Manage to secure it this season.
We don’t change managers like undercrackers here as you may well have seen with Knobinson.

So Des it is for the foreseeable.
Fact is, he has been successful elsewhere within a highly developed system of coaching that has a proven record of winning.
He was by far and away the No1 yellows Forum choice for the job.
So he hasn’t set the world alight since he got here, that is disappointing but I am quietly confident that he will sort it out.
We are in a strong financial position which ultimately means that with sound backing, we should be able to bring in the quality required and if that is in the summer, so be it.

We are only 2 transfer windows past the debacle of Knobinson yet we are 6th.
FFS people, lighten up and enjoy the ride this season.

You never know…He might just know what he is doing!
 
I see it the opposite way round. Man U have set a precedent of massive success so I think the criticism is more justified. The standards at that club were phenomal. Now compare that with us. Although there needs to be criticism to keep the club accountable and if standards drop significantly fine, but what precedent have we set for such high demands and expectation from some fans? (Yes the 80s were incredible but we massively overperformed for a club of our stature)
Maybe I’m easily pleased, but where we are placed right now and the direction we are going is fantastic after being a non league club only recently. We don’t own our ground (yet!) in hock to kassam for 25 years,and have no assets (except for Brannagan and maybe goodrham) but that doesn’t anywhere near offset the fact we are kept solvent every year by speculative wealthy owners. Comparing us to man u or even a Birmingham or Blackburn expectation wise is delusional.
I don't think you need significant recent success to demand success now. If that were the case then no club would ever progress.

Is the expectation for us fans to just accept what we're given then? If it's 'unjustified' to demand more, then do we just settle? Seems a pretty poor mentality to have in a business that it ultimately results driven.
 
I see it the opposite way round. Man U have set a precedent of massive success so I think the criticism is more justified. The standards at that club were phenomal. Now compare that with us. Although there needs to be criticism to keep the club accountable and if standards drop significantly fine, but what precedent have we set for such high demands and expectation from some fans? (Yes the 80s were incredible but we massively overperformed for a club of our stature)
Maybe I’m easily pleased, but where we are placed right now and the direction we are going is fantastic after being a non league club only recently. We don’t own our ground (yet!) in hock to kassam for 25 years,and have no assets (except for Brannagan and maybe goodrham) but that doesn’t anywhere near offset the fact we are kept solvent every year by speculative wealthy owners. Comparing us to man u or even a Birmingham or Blackburn expectation wise is delusional.

We were a non league club for 4 seasons after 40 plus years in the league and have been back for 14 years, don't disagree with all you are saying but the brief spell in the conference should not be used as a reason for anything, Luton were in non league more recently than us.
 
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