Cricket

Crane is in his first test at 20 years old, so has done ok. Moeen has played over 40 tests and has been bowling too much rot. Malan and Root have had to bowl over in the 4th test because the main spinner wasn't threatening.

As the main spinner, Moeen is done, and this is from a big fan of Moeen. We need a proper spinner in the team - look at what they Aussies have done with that. Rather than a bits and pieces spinner who is a little mentally fragile.
 
Seems Crane did OK. Last proper leg-spinner I remember playing for England was Robin Hobbs (he wasn't much good): I must have missed someone, but who?

Ian Salisbury. He wasn't much good either, though.

Chris Schofield also got a couple of games, but never took a wicket.
 
As the main spinner, Moeen is done, and this is from a big fan of Moeen. We need a proper spinner in the team - look at what they Aussies have done with that. Rather than a bits and pieces spinner who is a little mentally fragile.

Problem is that, aside from a good innings here and there from Monty, Tuffers or the King of Spain, England have only had one proper spinner in the past 30 years.

I think Swann made people forget that we've been incredibly bad at producing threatening spin bowlers over the years.

At least Moeen - bits and pieces spinner that he is - is capable of batting #7 or 8 and scoring big (even if he is a little all over the place with the bat). And he has bowled some good spells in the past.

Until we unearth another outstanding spinner (and maybe Crane is that....but he's still got to prove it at First Class level, let alone in the Test arena), then I think four seamers + Moeen is still our best bet. Unless we're playing on a dust bowl....but other than maybe three Tests in Sri Lanka next October, with our touring schedule we're unlikely to see any of those until 2020 at the earliest.
 
Problem is that, aside from a good innings here and there from Monty, Tuffers or the King of Spain, England have only had one proper spinner in the past 30 years.

I think Swann made people forget that we've been incredibly bad at producing threatening spin bowlers over the years.

At least Moeen - bits and pieces spinner that he is - is capable of batting #7 or 8 and scoring big (even if he is a little all over the place with the bat). And he has bowled some good spells in the past.

Until we unearth another outstanding spinner (and maybe Crane is that....but he's still got to prove it at First Class level, let alone in the Test arena), then I think four seamers + Moeen is still our best bet. Unless we're playing on a dust bowl....but other than maybe three Tests in Sri Lanka next October, with our touring schedule we're unlikely to see any of those until 2020 at the earliest.
Agree Tony. Swann has been our only decent spinner consistently since what Embury (sort of) and then Underwood.

I am amazed that people are suggesting that Moeen is a batsman that can bowl a bit. He has been by far our best spinner since Swann retired.

Let's keep our fingers crossed for Crane. But it really isn't obvious where the next quality spinner (in Aus/ India/ Sharjah) is coming from ...
 
Problem is that, aside from a good innings here and there from Monty, Tuffers or the King of Spain, England have only had one proper spinner in the past 30 years.

I think Swann made people forget that we've been incredibly bad at producing threatening spin bowlers over the years.

At least Moeen - bits and pieces spinner that he is - is capable of batting #7 or 8 and scoring big (even if he is a little all over the place with the bat). And he has bowled some good spells in the past.

Until we unearth another outstanding spinner (and maybe Crane is that....but he's still got to prove it at First Class level, let alone in the Test arena), then I think four seamers + Moeen is still our best bet. Unless we're playing on a dust bowl....but other than maybe three Tests in Sri Lanka next October, with our touring schedule we're unlikely to see any of those until 2020 at the earliest.
Moeen just about suffices at home. If the ECB are serious about winning away, they need someone less mentally prone than Moeen. Jack Leach is also another name to keep an eye on after his action got remodelled. And the thing with Moeen recently is his batting has been as bad as his bowling. I would be a little less bothered if he had contributed meaningfully. He hasn't.

Crane definitely seems to have the makings in his technique and mentally focused - he didn't pull a Kerrigan in Sydney, even if his figures don't say it. It's not a guarantee of anything other than potential with Crane, but I just don't want England to bob along with Moeen and get to the next Ashes series with a questionable spinner and wonder what if? They need someone who mentally wants to be a top line spinner and thrives in that position.

The fact the England setup are a bit giddy over Crane says a lot about what they think of him.
 
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21805721/ecb-decade-errors-led-ashes-failure

I read the above before Christmas and it did add a good take on England’s failings. Fans want a scapegoat all the time - Bayliss, Farbrace, Strauss, BBC have an article on James Vince who has ultimately been to blame for the loss of his own wicket a lot of the time but not the sole reason why England have given the Ashes away so meekly - but really the whole approach from the ECB has been wrong.

And, to some extent, who can blame them? If you took the idea of a new sport that lasted four days, didn’t often yield a result, was played during weekdays, played from early April to late September and could only be played when it wasn’t raining, you’d find few financial backers. However, the County Championship does all of that and support in terms of attendances is understandably low. However it’s still the only way to generate players for a Test side. The ECB in chasing the money to push the short form of the game have squeezed the unfashionable but ultimately necessary CC into the start and end of the cricket calendar. It’s why we won’t have any spinners or genuine pacemen anymore.

If the finger needs pointing at anyone, point it right at the top. However, you know full well that it’ll be a coach or a player or two that will be the one to get the blame.
 
And, to some extent, who can blame them? If you took the idea of a new sport that lasted four days, didn’t often yield a result, was played during weekdays, played from early April to late September and could only be played when it wasn’t raining, you’d find few financial backers. However, the County Championship does all of that and support in terms of attendances is understandably low. However it’s still the only way to generate players for a Test side. The ECB in chasing the money to push the short form of the game have squeezed the unfashionable but ultimately necessary CC into the start and end of the cricket calendar. It’s why we won’t have any spinners or genuine pacemen anymore.

If the finger needs pointing at anyone, point it right at the top. However, you know full well that it’ll be a coach or a player or two that will be the one to get the blame.

Except that Cricket Australia has done exactly the same thing - the Sheffield Shield is broken in two, and played either side of the Big Bash, which gets the middle of the Aussie summer to itself as that's when the biggest crowds are likely to be out.
Now if you want to suggest that the Sheffield Shield is a tougher competition than the County Championship, I won't argue. But that has always been the case....it didn't just start to be so in recent years.

It's also the case that Australia haven't won the Ashes in England since 2001. By the time they arrive in 2019, they won't have won in England for eighteen years.

Fact is that England produce players that are suited to English conditions, and Australia for Aussie conditions (and you can stretch that to every Test playing nation), and the only way you win on the other team's patch is if you have an outstanding team and they have a particularly poor one.

For all that genuinely quick bowlers like the Mitchells (Johnson and Starc) have looked terrifying in recent Australian Ashes series, their performances when the series have been in England have been really ordinary. So why would a county particularly look to develop a player like that, when slower bowlers than can move the ball like Overton, Woakes, Onions or Ball are more effective in the conditions you have to play in?

Although I think that it's become the norm to blame t20 for all cricket's woes - I don't think that England's lack of genuine pace or quality spin bowling is a new phenomenon. Having said earlier in the thread that we've only had one decent spinner in the past thirty years, I think we can probably count on one hand the number of genuinely quick bowlers England have had during that period too.....Jones, Harmison, Malcolm, Flintoff, maybe Gough......then I'm struggling.
 
Tom Helm at Middlesex is one to watch. Early 20s, he must be around the upper 80s.
 
When the new T20 comes in, the middle of the summers will get even more busier with white ball cricket. The ECB have focused on the white ball in an effort to win a WC, the question is are they boxing in players like Buttler and Plunkett needlessly? They better hope there is an Anderson MK2 out there that can swing the Duke ball at will.
 
The James Vince experiment continues in NZ

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Here's hoping that Vince is carrying the drinks, and they instead find a spot for Livingstone.

If you ever wanted a 12-match run to prove that you're not a Test caliber-batsman, then Vince has provided it!

Stoneman is lucky as well.
 
Here's hoping that Vince is carrying the drinks, and they instead find a spot for Livingstone.

If you ever wanted a 12-match run to prove that you're not a Test caliber-batsman, then Vince has provided it!

Stoneman is lucky as well.
Yep, Vince incredibly lucky. Hopefully Livingstone comes in for Vince maybe with the order being jiggled around a little.

Good to see Wood in at last.
 
There has been talk of Malan to 3 from 5, but it just feels like unsettling the batting order for the sake of it. At least Ballance is not going to NZ I suppose.
 
Never thought I’d say this, but Jimmy Anderson makes a fair decent crikkit commentator
 
England scored more in less than 50 overs today, than they did in the tests. Nice to win though
 
Makes we wonder if we shouldn't give Roy a shot in the Test team.

Yes, he lacks the defensive technique for the really tough spells, but any game where he bats for a session and a half, he's going to give England a hell of a start. And it's not as if he would be replacing anyone who's any good.

The Aussies made it work with Warner, who started out looking quite like Roy.
 
Makes we wonder if we shouldn't give Roy a shot in the Test team.

Yes, he lacks the defensive technique for the really tough spells, but any game where he bats for a session and a half, he's going to give England a hell of a start. And it's not as if he would be replacing anyone who's any good.

The Aussies made it work with Warner, who started out looking quite like Roy.
We tried that experiment with Hales, and it didn't work. I'd say the main requirement for a test opener is a solid defense, especially when you factor in what would follow in our middle order.
 
Makes we wonder if we shouldn't give Roy a shot in the Test team.

Yes, he lacks the defensive technique for the really tough spells, but any game where he bats for a session and a half, he's going to give England a hell of a start. And it's not as if he would be replacing anyone who's any good.

The Aussies made it work with Warner, who started out looking quite like Roy.
I think you could afford to give either him or Hales a shot at number 5 (I personally wanted Hales there ahead of the Ashes), but given that half our test matches will be in English conditions with the new ball moving everywhere, I'm not sure either have the technique to cope as an opener, as we saw in Hales' first time round. With Warner in Oz, as we saw in this series seam and swing rarely plays a factor (maybe 1/2 sessions in the whole series where they struggled to cope with Anderson and co?) so you don't have to take that into account quite so much. His record sort of backs this up - he averages 37 in test cricket in England (okay), versus 59 in home tests (excellent).

In addition to that, the fact is last season both Hales and Roy batted in the middle order in 4-day cricket for their counties. So the only thing I can think of is moving Malan to 3 (who I think has demonstrated he has the ability and temperament to bat there), and slotting one of the two into middle order. Both have had a super 18 months in white ball cricket (apart from a short run of bad form for Roy, which you can allow for when someone plays with such uninhibited attacking freedom), so surely would have some success in the red ball stuff if given a decent run?
 
Roy would either be great or awful. James Vince has that role at present and Bayliss seems smitten with him.
 
Well, it was 4-1 to England in the one dayers. Amazing how the fortunes turned and Smith was a different player. Props to Tom Curran for showing up bigly
 
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