Sport Cricket - England in Pakistan

[ZeroTheHero]

Just watching the first Pakistan vs England test match.

It's virtually the end of day 3. Pakistan scored 556 and at the time of writing England are 434-3. The pitch is as flat as a pancake, with nothing helping either the spin or seam bowlers.

Now, I am a big fan of test cricket. I think it is a subtle and strategic game that (at it's best) can ratchet up an extended period of tension like few other sports. But, especially in an age when test cricket is struggling world wide when competing with shorter form pyjama cricket, this sort of game is no good for anyone. The chances of there being a result is tiny even with two days still to play. Surely the groundsperson/curator (for our Australian friends) can be asked to produce a pitch that has a bit of something about it? Even a pitch prepared to suit the home team would be better than this.

On the plus side, it has allowed Root to become the highest English run scorer in test cricket.

 

[holdsteady]

Be happy if we let Root just bat as long as he can and see what score he can get, you just can't see anything but a draw on this pitch.

Won't be long before Root moves up to number 2 on the all time test run scorers as 4,3, and 2 are within 100 runs of each other and he is only about 700 runs behind, should be there by the time we go to Australia or before.

 

[Sarge]

Be happy if we let Root just bat as long as he can and see what score he can get, you just can't see anything but a draw on this pitch.

Won't be long before Root moves up to number 2 on the all time test run scorers as 4,3, and 2 are within 100 runs of each other and he is only about 700 runs behind, should be there by the time we go to Australia or before.

he should be- fingers crossed he is, and soon

 

[MJB]

Won't be long before Root moves up to number 2 on the all time test run scorers as 4,3, and 2 are within 100 runs of each other and he is only about 700 runs behind, should be there by the time we go to Australia or before.

An outside chance he'll get there before the end of this Test!

 

[Foley]

England are only 80 behind with 7 wickets left.
Has a team ever scored over 550 and lost?
England could put Pakistan under a lot of pressure tomorrow

 

[holdsteady]

England are only 80 behind with 7 wickets left.
Has a team ever scored over 550 and lost?
England could put Pakistan under a lot of pressure tomorrow

Unless this pitch absolutes falls to pieces overnight then its hard to see us getting them out cheaply, even against a tired Root and Brook the pitch isn't doing much at all.

 

[Foley]

Unless this pitch absolutes falls to pieces overnight then its hard to see us getting them out cheaply, even against a tired Root and Brook the pitch isn't doing much at all.

Yes agree.
But you just never know. If England could get 150 ahead, scoreboard pressure and the spinners using the foot marks?

 

[Coffin Dodger]

Be happy if we let Root just bat as long as he can and see what score he can get, you just can't see anything but a draw on this pitch.

Won't be long before Root moves up to number 2 on the all time test run scorers as 4,3, and 2 are within 100 runs of each other and he is only about 700 runs behind, should be there by the time we go to Australia or before.

It would be nice to see him surpass Pontings record in the first Ashes test and then watching them having to begrudgingly applaud.

 

[Marked Ox]

Yes agree.
But you just never know. If England could get 150 ahead, scoreboard pressure and the spinners using the foot marks?

Pakistan have had a habit of collapsing in the 2nd Innings recently according to the commentators.

 

[holdsteady]

Yes agree.
But you just never know. If England could get 150 ahead, scoreboard pressure and the spinners using the foot marks?

I think Big Foot would have needed to have left footmarks on this pitch, just nothing in it so far. But apparently Pakistan have collapsed before, they must really have issues if they collapse on this surface against our attack though.

 

[Foley]

I think Big Foot would have needed to have left footmarks on this pitch, just nothing in it so far. But apparently Pakistan have collapsed before, they must really have issues if they collapse on this surface against our attack though.

True, but England have done it many times over the years!!
It will be more psychological, but these things can happen.
Agree that firm odds are on a draw though.

 

[BicesterU]

Pakistan have had a habit of collapsing in the 2nd Innings recently according to the commentators.

Bangladesh bowled them out for 146 and 172 to win that series. The 146 was after first innings scores of 448/6 and 565.

 

[ECYellow]

It is fair to say the first three days have seen too much of an advantage for bat over ball.

Although we are only 64 behind, and with a ball that is still new you would anticipate that we will come out and up the anti tomorrow morning. It is not beyond the realms of possibility for us to put on 300 in 2.5 sessions tomorrow and have a lead of 240.

It would give us 3.5 sessions to bowl Pakistan out on day 5. I believe!

We should bat ourselves into a position where we cannot lose tomorrow morning, but we will most definitely have the chance to set the game up to win it. Often games in the sub-continent are slow burners. One of the greatest overseas wins came in Pakistan when Nasser was skipper in 2000, after Pakistan crumbled in their second innings.

Penny for Ollie Pope's thoughts, he remains the question mark for me in our batting top 6. Averaging 34 from 50 tests is not ground breaking.

 

[Oufcrealist]

Set them over 200 and we'll give ourselves a chance.
Yes Pope is extremely vulnerable early in his innings as is Crawley who has a lower average than Pope from roughly the same amount of innings.
It was a great catch that got Pope but he'd only faced a couple of balls and didn't need to play that shot so early in his innings.
Also, the crowd's are very low. At times you could hear a pin drop. Has test cricket's popularity dropped massively in Pakistan?

 

[Andy Stroud]

Also, the crowd's are very low. At times you could hear a pin drop. Has test cricket's popularity dropped massively in Pakistan?

With pitches like this, plus Pakistan’s laissez-faire attitude to the game it’s not surprising that the crowds are so small. It is everything that is bad about test cricket.
I’m sure one of the commentators mentioned that they were planning to hand out free tickets for the final days.
Edit: I know it’s very hot out there, but with the spinners so involved, how come they can’t get 90 overs bowled in a day.

 

[holdsteady]

With pitches like this, plus Pakistan’s laissez-faire attitude to the game it’s not surprising that the crowds are so small. It is everything that is bad about test cricket.
I’m sure one of the commentators mentioned that they were planning to hand out free tickets for the final days.
Edit: I know it’s very hot out there, but with the spinners so involved, how come they can’t get 90 overs bowled in a day.

Our batsmen had a lot of drinks breaks as well, watched the last half hour and Root was fucked, still couldn't get him out.

 

[Mike_H]

England are only 80 behind with 7 wickets left.
Has a team ever scored over 550 and lost?
England could put Pakistan under a lot of pressure tomorrow

Yes - England can even do it when declaring. 551-6 declared v Australia in Adelaide in December 2006.

England's unwanted records at Adelaide

England wrote themselves into several unwanted record books with a purposeless batting display on the fifth day of the Adelaide Test

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Bigdwoolly]

It is fair to say the first three days have seen too much of an advantage for bat over ball.

Although we are only 64 behind, and with a ball that is still new you would anticipate that we will come out and up the anti tomorrow morning. It is not beyond the realms of possibility for us to put on 300 in 2.5 sessions tomorrow and have a lead of 240.

It would give us 3.5 sessions to bowl Pakistan out on day 5. I believe!

We should bat ourselves into a position where we cannot lose tomorrow morning, but we will most definitely have the chance to set the game up to win it. Often games in the sub-continent are slow burners. One of the greatest overseas wins came in Pakistan when Nasser was skipper in 2000, after Pakistan crumbled in their second innings.

Penny for Ollie Pope's thoughts, he remains the question mark for me in our batting top 6. Averaging 34 from 50 tests is not ground breaking.

This is Bazball - they're not going to bat another 2.5 sessions. If they get 300 ahead, Pakistan will just block for 3.5 sessions.

I reckon they'll get 150 ahead as quickly as possible, then declare (probably not long after lunch). The aim being to get the best part of 4 sessions to bowl them out, then knock off whatever they need in the last session day 5. That probably gives them the best chance of victory.

 

[ECYellow]

This is Bazball - they're not going to bat another 2.5 sessions. If they get 300 ahead, Pakistan will just block for 3.5 sessions.

I reckon they'll get 150 ahead as quickly as possible, then declare (probably not long after lunch). The aim being to get the best part of 4 sessions to bowl them out, then knock off whatever they need in the last session day 5. That probably gives them the best chance of victory.

I said a lead of 240, not 300.

I don’t think there is any merit in batting twice, when the platform has been built to only bat once. Not many teams want to be chasing any in the 4th innings, on day 5 in Asia.

Also, it’s probably worth factoring in that the bowlers were on their knees when we finally bowled Pakistan out. There is no harm in letting them have an extra hour or so with their feet up tomorrow, meanwhile keeping Pakistan in the dirt, before they have to bat to save the test.

 

[tonyw]

England are only 80 behind with 7 wickets left.
Has a team ever scored over 550 and lost?
England could put Pakistan under a lot of pressure tomorrow

Mike H pointed out the most traumatic example (personally traumatic, because I was flying out to Oz to see the 3rd, 4th & 5th Tests the next day, and all of a sudden the trip changed from being an exciting, nicely poised follow up to 2005 to being a gallows humour tour of humiliation!) but yes, it's happened five times:

Association of Cricket Statisticians and Historians

stats.acscricket.com

I agree with ECY completely - assuming we don't start to lose wickets, I'd bat aggressively but not look to declare until after Tea on Day 4.

Then the Pakistani batsmen go in under tremendous pressure, with only the goal being saving the Test - and they do not have a good recent track record of doing that. I don't see too many Michael Atherton-types in their team.

Sure, slogging and an early declaration leaves them with hope of victory, and encourages Pakistan to bat more aggressively second innings. But psychologically, that releases some of the pressure (and of course opens up the faint possibility that we could lose).

But then I'm an old school anti-Bazball type, so they'll almost certainly do the opposite.

 

[McXal]

Thinking positively - one has to accept that Pakistani pitches lend themselves to more attritional cricket. It’s a different ‘style’ of test match (and I do agree it probably isn’t that appealing in an era when test matches - by a distance my favourite form of the game - are struggling to maintain relevance). But as the last tour showed, when things do start to happen, they happen quickly. If we get even a 150/200 run lead then funnier things have happened than a Pakistani team struggling even on an absolute road (listening to the comms on both Sky & TMS at various points, both have mentioned they have some real mental fragility around their second innings batting too).

I’ve been really impressed with our batting today. It was the kind of ruthless, remorseless, somewhat dull-eyed determination to bat the opposition team into the ground that the Baz-Ball era has lacked. If we’d have had this mentality instead of happy hook air swishing at Lords during the last home Ashes we could’ve won the series. It reminded me of the way Australia at their best flat-track bully opposition bowlers on their turf.

Root is brilliant. But Brook, Crawley & Duckett were superb too. Between the three of them they’ve basically smashed the Pakistani attack around the ground for four sessions meaning JR can just tick along relentlessly. A good session or two tomorrow and England could set themselves up to do something really special.

It isn’t ‘exciting’ and given the vast empty seats it clearly isn’t appealing to live audiences ANYWHERE other than the UK and Australia (arguably India & SA too). But a travelling England side getting ran into the dirt and shipping 550 across two days in boiling temperatures, then going out and knocking them off with devastating tenacity over the next two days to set up a final four sessions on a real knife-edge, with the possibility of something really rare (a team scoring 500 first innings and losing) is exactly the kind of long-form story-telling and drama that I love about test matches…

 

[holdsteady]

Personally I think you are all getting to excited, nailed on draw, nothing in this pitch and neither bowling attack is up to much.

 

[Left Wing Cross]

Personally I think you are all getting to excited, nailed on draw, nothing in this pitch and neither bowling attack is up to much.

Pakistan's recent test series against Bangladesh suggests a fragility when batting in their second innings. I don't think a draw is completely certain, yet.

 

[holdsteady]

Pakistan's recent test series against Bangladesh suggests a fragility when batting in their second innings. I don't think a draw is completely certain, yet.

I dunno, I think the pitch is so flat, watched the last hour today, that they could have a complete breakdown and still not get out.

 

[Bigdwoolly]

I said a lead of 240, not 300.

I don’t think there is any merit in batting twice, when the platform has been built to only bat once. Not many teams want to be chasing any in the 4th innings, on day 5 in Asia.

Also, it’s probably worth factoring in that the bowlers were on their knees when we finally bowled Pakistan out. There is no harm in letting them have an extra hour or so with their feet up tomorrow, meanwhile keeping Pakistan in the dirt, before they have to bat to save the test.

Thing is, you don't want to waste time scoring runs you don't need. And you don't know what you need until you've bowled Pakistan out. The challenge on this wicket is having enough overs to bowl out Pakistan again, at least 110 overs I would think. Which leaves maybe 50 left for England, take 30 overs now, then if you need 150ish runs in the 4th innings you can have a bash.

 

[Jaboysmith]

If it were up to me we would bat until we hit the 1000 mark, just so I can say that I saw it happen, either way there isnt much chance of a result here so why not go for the records?

 

[Sheik Djibouti]

One snippet from Wisden. Joe Root has now scored as many centuries since lockdown as David Gower scored in his entire career

 

[holdsteady]

Root not far off his highest ever test score now, Brook already has his.

Pitch doesn't seem to have changed much though so looking for Pakistan to crumble mentally to have any hope.

 

[holdsteady]

10 off our highest ever test partnership that has stood for nearly 70 years here.

 

[Andy Stroud]

702-3.