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[werthersoriginal]

Always the latter when the tories are in power!!

Yes indeed, I’d have no problem with a rise in income tax but raising national insurance or VAT affects poorer people disproportionately

 

[MC Yellow]

As obvious statements go that headline is up there with bears' toiletory habits and the reglious tenancies of the pope.

The real question is will it be the rich/richer taxpayers or the poor/poorer taxpayers that pay the most proportional to their income?

When you say rich/richer taxpayers, what income level or wealth bracket do you consider fits this description.

Asking for a friend.

 

[Essexyellows]

Or scrapping HS2 would avoid spending of £120bn over the next 20 years, so £6bn/yr

I doubt it...... they (HS2) have already "run out of money" https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...h-hs2-in-the-north-ministers-warned-3vl50s7bf

As they have already bought the majority of the land and are progressing fairly quickly it is far past the point of no return.

Thats what happens with Labour governments..... start things others have to finish..... "there is no money left".....

 

[SteMerritt]

Thats what happens with Labour governments..... start things others have to finish...

Nice rewrite of history there

 

[Essexyellows]

Nice rewrite of history there

Started in 2009...................under Golden Brown.

History of High Speed 2 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SteMerritt]

Started in 2009...................under Golden Brown.

History of High Speed 2 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"...others have to finish."

If you carried on reading, supported in opposition by the tories, and given the final go-ahead by... the tories. They could have stopped it on multiple occasions but didn't. As big a Blue f**k-up as a Red one.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Started in 2009...................under Golden Brown.

History of High Speed 2 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That is a f*****g master stroke, blaming HS2 on Labour. Are you Chris Maguire in disguise?

 

[QR]

When you say rich/richer taxpayers, what income level or wealth bracket do you consider fits this description.

Asking for a friend.

A progressive tax that possibly uses the child benefit household threshold as the point at which it kicks in would be a good Aunt Sally. Will take decades to pay off.

 

[MC Yellow]

A progressive tax that possibly uses the child benefit household threshold as the point at which it kicks in would be a good Aunt Sally. Will take decades to pay off.

Child Benefit doesn’t use a household threshold though does it.

It is based on individual income and clawed back between £50k and £60K

You can have a household income earned by just one person of £60k and all child benefit is lost or a household income of £100,000 earned equally between two earners and nothing is lost.

See the problem? Whatever is done in the future there will be winners and losers.

For some, tax will seem fair and for others it will seem unfair, but that is life and it will never change.

Someone going into a pub and buying a pint will pay the same whether they earn £20k per annum or £200k per annum.

I do agree though that there should be some sort of luxury VAT. So if you want to pop along and spend £100k on a car, or splash thousands on luxury items, you pay a luxury tax supplement.

I also think that all higher rate tax relief should be abolished on pension contributions.

I also think that anyone above the age of retirement with a personal income in excess of 50k should have their state pension means tested and clawed back... lose £1 state pension for every £2 of income over £50k etc.

Anyone in retirement with income at this level without the baggage of saving for the future, paying mortgages, student loans and raising children etc etc, can have a great retirement without state pension.

 

[QR]

Child Benefit doesn’t use a household threshold though does it.

It is based on individual income and clawed back between £50k and £60K

You can have a household income earned by just one person of £60k and all child benefit is lost or a household income of £100,000 earned equally between two earners and nothing is lost.

See the problem? Whatever is done in the future there will be winners and losers.

For some, tax will seem fair and for others it will seem unfair, but that is life and it will never change.

Someone going into a pub and buying a pint will pay the same whether they earn £20k per annum or £200k per annum.

I do agree though that there should be some sort of luxury VAT. So if you want to pop along and spend £100k on a car, or splash thousands on luxury items, you pay a luxury tax supplement.

I also think that all higher rate tax relief should be abolished on pension contributions.

I also think that anyone above the age of retirement with a personal income in excess of 50k should have their state pension means tested and clawed back... lose £1 state pension for every £2 of income over £50k etc.

Anyone in retirement with income at this level without the baggage of saving for the future, paying mortgages, student loans and raising children etc etc, can have a great retirement without state pension.

As I said an Aunt Sally.

You're right the children benefit threshold trys to encourage a person's partner to work but then appears 'unfair' when someone on £60k gets nothing and the couple next door on a joint income of £98k get the full wack.

Maybe a new tax based on household income over a threshold? Also stop allowing companies to off shore their profits thereby sidestepping any tax liabilities.

 

[MC Yellow]

Also stop allowing companies to off shore their profits thereby sidestepping any tax liabilities.

This is a huge issue and whilst progress is being made with countries agreeing a new international framework, much work still to do.

 

[QR]

This is a huge issue and whilst progress is being made with countries agreeing a new international framework, much work still to do.

Some do this by lending from their tax haven company to their UK arm at high interest rates thereby drawing profits out of the county. I'm sure there's something the Treasury could do there in insisting UK accounts carry a notional interest rate on borrowing where excessive interest rates are being applied. Not straight forward I'd agree, but what tax is.

 

[MC Yellow]

Some so this by lending from their tax haven company to their UK arm at high interest rates thereby drawing profits out of the county. I'm sure there's something the Treasury could do there in insisting UK accounts carry a notional interest rate on borrowing where excessive interest rates are being applied. Not straight forward I'd agree, but what tax is.

Offshore branding, intellectual property and image rights is also a major issue.

Have all these registered in tax havens and tax law becomes an ass.

 

[MC Yellow]

"...others have to finish."

If you carried on reading, supported in opposition by the tories, and given the final go-ahead by... the tories. They could have stopped it on multiple occasions but didn't. As big a Blue f**k-up as a Red one.

Have to agree.

This is a fcuk up in the extreme from both sides of the house.

Should have been nipped in the bud at the outset.

If we could all see how this was going to turn out, why the heck couldn’t they?

No real benefit, massive overspend that will just get bigger and bigger, and by the time it gets North, which was the whole ideology to remove the north and south divide, it will all grind to a halt anyway, with no money left in the pot.

Complete and utter ineptitude

 

[Essexyellows]

The trouble with national infrastructure is that it often reaches a point of no return where commitment is total.
30,000 jobs and that's without the supply chain.
Then you have the benefit of moving a lot of passengers off of the traditional railway and that increases capacity for freight... a greener way than lorries.

Pros and Cons of High Speed Rail HS2 - Economics Help

An evaluation of the arguments for and against building new high speed rail link. Look at impact on economy, infrastructure, environment, people living nearby and whether it will reduce inequalities

www.economicshelp.org

Or you could just leave things as they are and get slated for NOT investing in infrastructure as the population continues to expand......

 

[werthersoriginal]

The trouble with national infrastructure is that it often reaches a point of no return where commitment is total.
30,000 jobs and that's without the supply chain.
Then you have the benefit of moving a lot of passengers off of the traditional railway and that increases capacity for freight... a greener way than lorries.

Pros and Cons of High Speed Rail HS2 - Economics Help

An evaluation of the arguments for and against building new high speed rail link. Look at impact on economy, infrastructure, environment, people living nearby and whether it will reduce inequalities

www.economicshelp.org

Or you could just leave things as they are and get slated for NOT investing in infrastructure as the population continues to expand......

Hate to say it but I'm inclined to agree with you, you have to invest in infrastructure before it's needed. My dad used to tell the story of our old neighbour, a civil servant, who kept saying that the M1 was a waste of money and wasn't needed.

 

[MC Yellow]

The trouble with national infrastructure is that it often reaches a point of no return where commitment is total.
30,000 jobs and that's without the supply chain.
Then you have the benefit of moving a lot of passengers off of the traditional railway and that increases capacity for freight... a greener way than lorries.

Pros and Cons of High Speed Rail HS2 - Economics Help

An evaluation of the arguments for and against building new high speed rail link. Look at impact on economy, infrastructure, environment, people living nearby and whether it will reduce inequalities

www.economicshelp.org

Or you could just leave things as they are and get slated for NOT investing in infrastructure as the population continues to expand......

All opinion of course, but personally, I feel the cons far outweigh the pros, looking at that article.

 

[Sarge]

All opinion of course, but personally, I feel the cons far outweigh the pros, looking at that article.

agree re the cons..... some villages just over the Oxon border in Buckinghamshire are at times corralled in by HS2 ( & East West rail) construction , who seem to shut roads whenever and wherever they like, ( compounded by new build plots popping up in the area) with apparently no coordination by the local authorities, seriously heavy construction traffic thundering through small villages and hamlets, way over the local speed limit, on roads not designed to accommodate them, and said villages frequently isolated due to road closures along with never-ending road works. HS2 is a total waste of tax payers money IMO

 

[werthersoriginal]

agree re the cons..... some villages just over the Oxon border in Buckinghamshire are at times corralled in by HS2 ( & East West rail) construction , who seem to shut roads whenever and wherever they like, ( compounded by new build plots popping up in the area) with apparently no coordination by the local authorities, seriously heavy construction traffic thundering through small villages and hamlets, way over the local speed limit, on roads not designed to accommodate them, and said villages frequently isolated due to road closures along with never-ending road works. HS2 is a total waste of tax payers money IMO

The chaos caused by construction projects would be the same whether they are valuable or not.

I’m agnostic about HS2 but I guess it’s just shorthand for ‘expensive thing we don’t seem to urgently need’. See also trident.

 

[holdsteady]

The chaos caused by construction projects would be the same whether they are valuable or not.

I’m agnostic about HS2 but I guess it’s just shorthand for ‘expensive thing we don’t seem to urgently need’. See also trident.

At least with Trident we can destroy Latvia if they get cheeky again and let a Grebis standard player join us, with HS2 a few people will get from up north to London a little bit quicker.