International News Covid-19 .....

QR said:
This.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1360907210914738179
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Strange argument though.

Firstly - it's going to mutate regardless of whether or not it is allowed to "gallop" through 50 year olds in the UK. Billions of people in the developing world won't be getting the vaccine for the next 24 months (if at all) and it is much more likely to mutate within that much larger sample of people than our comparatively miniscule number of 50 somethings. So what's she saying? We should maintain lockdown until the risk of mutation is eliminated? 5 years of lockdown? 10? How long will it take to vaccinate the best part of 7 billion people?

When is this Tweeter suggesting we begin to open up our economy? The people she is criticising have made their decision. Their risk assessment is complete. I'm sure her opinion would hold much more weight if she set out her risk standard for us all to analyse.

48k likes for a vacuous dig without any evidence, insight or genuine counter-proposal. It makes you wonder doesn't it.
 
bashamwonderland said:
Strange argument though.

Firstly - it's going to mutate regardless of whether or not it is allowed to "gallop" through 50 year olds in the UK. Billions of people in the developing world won't be getting the vaccine for the next 24 months (if at all) and it is much more likely to mutate within that much larger sample of people than our comparatively miniscule number of 50 somethings. So what's she saying? We should maintain lockdown until the risk of mutation is eliminated? 5 years of lockdown? 10? How long will it take to vaccinate the best part of 7 billion people?

When is this Tweeter suggesting we begin to open up our economy? The people she is criticising have made their decision. Their risk assessment is complete. I'm sure her opinion would hold much more weight if she set out her risk standard for us all to analyse.

48k likes for a vacuous dig without any evidence, insight or genuine counter-proposal. It makes you wonder doesn't it.
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If just India has given up then the idea of zero Covid is farcical unless we intend to live cut off from the rest of the world or in a permanent lockdown for evermore.
 
Marked Ox said:
In this case they are right. There may be nothing wrong with all of those contracts, but scrutiny should happen and the Govt haven't exactly being rushing to get the info out for that scrutiny to happen.
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QR said:
Secrecy and poor transpancy from the government spending billions of our money and it's the fault of the lawyers for challenging it. Er..... Whataboutism Alert (again)
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Concretebob said:
Straight from the EY book of whataboutism. Classic.
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I`ll go for the hat trick of easy fish. :D

Yes scrutiny should happen, however there is a time and a place and dare I suggest that in the midst of a tornado is not the best time to pop outside and check if the shed is OK.
The outcome will be that national interest will trump (as in the card game not Donald) the normal process.
If you need something doing well and fast do you not use the supplier with the best reputation and capacity to do it?
And the same has happened across all spectrum`s, in this case they wanted "focus groups" in my humble a waste of time, effort and money in normal times but hey ho it`s the new liberal world where we need to check everyone is "engaged". :rolleyes:

Make the choices, tell the population what to do..... then folk will say it`s dictatorial.... can`t win eh?
 
Essexyellows said:
Make the choices, tell the population what to do..... then folk will say it`s dictatorial.... can`t win eh?
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It’s win-win, actually. Countries that did the dictatorial thing (NZ, Aus, Japan, Korea, Taiwan) have held covid back and have content populations. Of course the economic rationalists complain about the economy, but actually the economy is doing ok in those places where thousands aren’t dying of covid. It’s the messy populist places that have got it so wrong by trying to be smart and appeal to the whims of the populace, yet fail to deliver anything people want..
 
bashamwonderland said:
Firstly - it's going to mutate regardless of whether or not it is allowed to "gallop" through 50 year olds in the UK. Billions of people in the developing world won't be getting the vaccine for the next 24 months (if at all) and it is much more likely to mutate within that much larger sample of people than our comparatively miniscule number of 50 somethings. So what's she saying? We should maintain lockdown until the risk of mutation is eliminated? 5 years of lockdown? 10? How long will it take to vaccinate the best part of 7 billion people?
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It's clear what she is saying the question is what are you saying? Should we not have locked dowse all? And yes if continue with our half arsed approach this will go on for years to come. Viva NZ, Aus etc.

bashamwonderland said:
When is this Tweeter suggesting we begin to open up our economy? The people she is criticising have made their decision. Their risk assessment is complete. I'm sure her opinion would hold much more weight if she set out her risk standard for us all to analyse.
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When it's safe to do so.and if we'd acted firmly and promptly in the first place we could be living like NZ, Aus etc NOW!

All this government is giving us is a perpetual groundhog day of promises of jam tomorrow followed by rowbacks on policy.
 
Essexyellows said:
I`ll go for the hat trick of easy fish. :D

Yes scrutiny should happen, however there is a time and a place and dare I suggest that in the midst of a tornado is not the best time to pop outside and check if the shed is OK.
The outcome will be that national interest will trump (as in the card game not Donald) the normal process.
If you need something doing well and fast do you not use the supplier with the best reputation and capacity to do it?
And the same has happened across all spectrum`s, in this case they wanted "focus groups" in my humble a waste of time, effort and money in normal times but hey ho it`s the new liberal world where we need to check everyone is "engaged". :rolleyes:

Make the choices, tell the population what to do..... then folk will say it`s dictatorial.... can`t win eh?
Click to expand...
Even if you believe scrutiny can wait transparency can not. I'm always being told we live in a open democracy.
 
QR said:
It's clear what she is saying the question is what are you saying? Should we not have locked dowse all? And yes if continue with our half arsed approach this will go on for years to come. Viva NZ, Aus etc.


When it's safe to do so.and if we'd acted firmly and promptly in the first place we could be living like NZ, Aus etc NOW!

All this government is giving us is a perpetual groundhog day of promises of jam tomorrow followed by rowbacks on policy.
Click to expand...
But we are also leading the way with the vaccination programme in the world.
If Boris had locked down like NZ did ( I would have been happy with that) he would have come in for so much grief with the economy taking an even bigger hit. Yes it would have almost certainly curtailed our high death rate through Covid-19 but unfortunately all the big businesses would have been crying blue murder over the lockdown a full lockdown like NZ that is. Labour and other parties would have also been screaming at the government to ease the full lockdown for the sake of the economy. Boris us damned if he dies and damned if he didn’t. Somewhere I think on this thread it was mentioned that we couldn’t fully lockdown because of trade but trade or death......it’s a case of take your pick.
 
QR said:
It's clear what she is saying the question is what are you saying? Should we not have locked dowse all? And yes if continue with our half arsed approach this will go on for years to come. Viva NZ, Aus etc.


When it's safe to do so.and if we'd acted firmly and promptly in the first place we could be living like NZ, Aus etc NOW!

All this government is giving us is a perpetual groundhog day of promises of jam tomorrow followed by rowbacks on policy.
Click to expand...
Sorry but I don't agree that what she's saying is clear at all. Her point is that people who want to ease lockdown are wrong. Well - so what? What's her proposal?

No, I'm not saying we shouldn't have locked down at all and I don't think I've said anything to suggest that.

When would you like us out of lockdown?
 
Essexyellows said:
I`ll go for the hat trick of easy fish. :D

Yes scrutiny should happen, however there is a time and a place and dare I suggest that in the midst of a tornado is not the best time to pop outside and check if the shed is OK.
The outcome will be that national interest will trump (as in the card game not Donald) the normal process.
If you need something doing well and fast do you not use the supplier with the best reputation and capacity to do it?
And the same has happened across all spectrum`s, in this case they wanted "focus groups" in my humble a waste of time, effort and money in normal times but hey ho it`s the new liberal world where we need to check everyone is "engaged". :rolleyes:

Make the choices, tell the population what to do..... then folk will say it`s dictatorial.... can`t win eh?
Click to expand...

Your response would be slightly more credible if you hadn't overlooked the numerous failures in delivery that the chumocracy has given us. Unusable or completely missing PPE and equipment.....T&T failure including God knows how much jizzed on an app that never was.

All from what you have described as "suppliers with the best reputation and capacity to do it"

....erm...ok[emoji23]

Whilst expediency was needed, on that we can agree, that does not give anyone spending public money the right to be opaque in their dealings. No excuse for not being transparent I'm afraid....unless it is a matter of National Security....and this was not.

Not to mention Cummings open loathing of scrutiny or anyone who dares to challenge or hold him to account....how very dare they. Of course Tarquins jewellery business is the best available to mass produce surgical masks!!!!! [emoji849]

It's a little bit ironic that Cummings himself is on record as saying most Tory MPs he's met don't give a flying f**k about Joe Public and what they think, when here he is demonstrably doing the very same thing.

I do fear your fondness for licking the Tory boot has clouded your judgement somewhat in this instance. I can absolutely guarantee that if Sir Kier had been PM and had done something similar you would be screaming the place down. In fact you regularly do highlight misdemeanors of other political parties...and try to make out like they are bigger crimes than the billions of public money that still can't be accounted for by this government and their chums.

But (before you say it)...Sir Kier is not PM and instead we're stuck with this bunch of 3rd rate spivs and shysters.....jobs for the boys anyone? (as long as the tie is right of course).[emoji6]
 
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bashamwonderland said:
Sorry but I don't agree that what she's saying is clear at all. Her point is that people who want to ease lockdown are wrong. Well - so what? What's her proposal?
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Think of it as a simple reaction to those who are screaming about the need to exit lockdown and shouting the word 'economy', 'economy' over and over.

And then move on.

Little of import was ever said in 25 words. But then you know this.
 
bashamwonderland said:
Sorry but I don't agree that what she's saying is clear at all. Her point is that people who want to ease lockdown are wrong. Well - so what? What's her proposal?

No, I'm not saying we shouldn't have locked down at all and I don't think I've said anything to suggest that.

When would you like us out of lockdown?
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Can I offer my opinion?

When it's relatively safe to resume a greater number of economic and social activities, I like apple pie too. Here are some examples of criteria of things that need to be (or not be) happening, my opinion is that all of them must be met: these are all I can think of from the top of me head, I'm sure there are more:
1. new infections are below a certain level (certainly below last summer, probably to the level where each health authority is having to handle tens or less a day - see track & trace)
2. vaccination reach a certain level and a process is in place for 'variant jabs for essential services'. Nope, dunno but at the minimum a majority of the populace, essential services are health & social services, public services plus delivery drivers, teachers public transport operatives .......
3. Local authorities are able to handle the volume of new infections to trace contacts in 24 hours and tell them to lock down / be tested
4. Payment of wages for people locked down is triggered automatically and immediately on trace contact or self-report and continues through lockdown and treatment.
5. Provision of food to locked down people operates per #4
6. Borders are closed and quarantine is implemented in a non-punitive manner
7. The current political party broadcast dissemination of information stops and a defined information is provided at fixed times by a panel of experts, which could be headed by Michael Gove or a more trustworthy government figure if one is to be found.
8. See 7 - the plan is published with each of the criteria detailed, and steps (towards unlockdown) triggered by each milestone defined. Variances to the plan are agreed with the panel before implementation.

The last 2 are a bit daft and won't happen. That's a shame because you can't run a plan without trustworthy information and we're not getting it.
 
Paul Cannell said:
Can I offer my opinion?

When it's relatively safe to resume a greater number of economic and social activities, I like apple pie too. Here are some examples of criteria of things that need to be (or not be) happening, my opinion is that all of them must be met: these are all I can think of from the top of me head, I'm sure there are more:
1. new infections are below a certain level (certainly below last summer, probably to the level where each health authority is having to handle tens or less a day - see track & trace)
2. vaccination reach a certain level and a process is in place for 'variant jabs for essential services'. Nope, dunno but at the minimum a majority of the populace, essential services are health & social services, public services plus delivery drivers, teachers public transport operatives .......
3. Local authorities are able to handle the volume of new infections to trace contacts in 24 hours and tell them to lock down / be tested
4. Payment of wages for people locked down is triggered automatically and immediately on trace contact or self-report and continues through lockdown and treatment.
5. Provision of food to locked down people operates per #4
6. Borders are closed and quarantine is implemented in a non-punitive manner
7. The current political party broadcast dissemination of information stops and a defined information is provided at fixed times by a panel of experts, which could be headed by Michael Gove or a more trustworthy government figure if one is to be found.
8. See 7 - the plan is published with each of the criteria detailed, and steps (towards unlockdown) triggered by each milestone defined. Variances to the plan are agreed with the panel before implementation.

The last 2 are a bit daft and won't happen. That's a shame because you can't run a plan without trustworthy information and we're not getting it.
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I don't see anything to disagree with here - in the context of this pandemic those are perfectly reasonable categories. My one concern is what happens in 12-24 months when one (or more) vaccine resistant strain(s) enters circulation and a new pandemic begins...

Provided we have a Nightingale hospital contingency plan in place and a better prepared NHS (amongst other things which I can't be bothered to think of right now) - I would certainly hope that lockdown is never used to contain the virus again.
 
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