International News Covid-19 .....

Scotchegg said:
But this is the problem, many have shown that they do not have the capability to analyse this and draw common sense conclusions, including our former Justice of the Supreme Court.

...

To imply that this is all a big plan to tighten civil liberties is a bit stupid, and shows that Lord Sumption could do with a little common sense too!
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A different aspect of being hung for something he didn't say but maybe only to some extent. I think Sumption is of an age and background where his social milieu does have some capacity to analyse, has been trained to use it and is accustomed to rely on it for many purposes. To that extent he underestimates the capacity of those younger and less well-educated to avoid being led by the nose by opinion leaders, a lot. Having turbo'd my way through I Promessi Sposi I've just read a description of how mobs work in a plague and I have a notion that he underestimates the potency of the mob altogether. So to an extent he's a victim of a liberal optimism, lucky guy.

But he never suggests that this is a plot to reduce civil liberties, he points out that the opportunities inherent in managing this situation may prove too appetising to a budding tyrant to be repealed - one look at the descriptions of the apps used in China and South Korea should make that very obvious.

This isn't uncharted territory for mankind, but it is for us; and we're lucky to not be day-workers in Doha, Delhi or Durban. Tread carefully lads.
 
Oxymoron said:
Bosch claim they have new test that doesn't require any reagents......
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That is great..................if your lab uses Bosch/Randox kit & software.
And its going to Germany first in April and then rolling out to Europe "later". So still takes time.

Meantime the UK is leading the world in fast track research projects....... this isn`t confidential, just the day job.

Urgent Public Health COVID-19 Studies | NIHR

Urgent Public Health Research Studies for COVID-19 - National Institute for Health Research
www.nihr.ac.uk
 
certain members of society remind me of those documentaries where the sole Wildebeast is surrounded by the Lions, if the other Wilderbeast All reacted and did the same thing and charged at the Lions they would run away but the reaction is oh it's ok it's another (someone else) so i'm alright.
 
I saw Lord Sumption trending online, the absolute full blown hysteria over his comments and thought he had been extremely controversial. Having read the transcript, it was significantly more measured than people claimed it was.

Is it controversial in parts? Yes, but I do think it is a good counterpoint to the hysteria that has been whipped up in some areas to aid a discussion around this and how we fight it. No wonder Piers Moron got all angry about it.

Take a look Hungary and what Orban is upto... That is scary
 
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horseman said:
certain members of society remind me of those documentaries where the sole Wildebeast is surrounded by the Lions, if the other Wilderbeast All reacted and did the same thing and charged at the Lions they would run away but the reaction is oh it's ok it's another (someone else) so i'm alright.
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Wilsterman never feared Millwall.
 
Sarge said:
interesting reading- transcript of BBC radio$s World at One With former justice of the supreme court Lord Sumption - (cut n pasted from elsewhere)

Here is the transcript of an interview from BBC Radio 4's World at One , Monday 30th March 2020. With Lord Sumption, former justice of the Supreme Court.
[Thanks to John Burton for providing the text of this important statement.]

“The real problem is that when human societies lose their freedom, it's not usually because tyrants have taken it away. It's usually because people willingly surrender their freedom in return for protection against some external threat. And the threat is usually a real threat but usually exaggerated. That's what I fear we are seeing now. The pressure on politicians has come from the public. They want action. They don't pause to ask whether the action will work. They don't ask themselves whether the cost will be worth paying. They want action anyway. And anyone who has studied history will recognise here the classic symptoms of collective hysteria.

Hysteria is infectious. We are working ourselves up into a lather in which we exaggerate the threat and stop asking ourselves whether the cure may be worse than the disease.

Q At a time like this as you acknowledge , citizens do look to the state for protection, for assistance, we shouldn't be surprised then if the state takes on new powers, that is what it has been asked to do, almost demanded of it.

A Yes that is absolutely true. We should not be surprised. But we have to recognise that this is how societies become despotisms. And we also have to recognise this is a process which leads naturally to exaggeration. The symptoms of coronavirus are clearly serious for those with other significant medical conditions especially if they're old. There are exceptional cases in which young people have been struck down, which have had a lot of publicity, but the numbers are pretty small. The Italian evidence for instance suggests that only 12% of deaths is it possible to say coronavirus was the main cause of death. So yes this is serious and yes it's understandable that people cry out to the government. But the real question is : Is this serious enough to warrant putting most of our population into house imprisonment, wrecking our economy for an indefinite period, destroying businesses that honest and hardworking people have taken years to build up , saddling future generations with debt, depression, stress, heart attacks, suicides and unbelievable distress inflicted on millions of people who are not especially vulnerable and will suffer only mild symptoms or none at all, like the Health Secretary and the Prime Minister.

Q The executive, the government, is all of a sudden really rather powerful and really rather unscrutinised. Parliament is in recess, it's due to come back in late April, we're not quite sure whether it will or not, the Prime Minister is closeted away, communicating via his phone, there is not a lot in the way of scrutiny is there?

A No. Certainly there's not a lot in the way of institutional scrutiny. The Press has engaged in a fair amount of scrutiny, there has been some good and challenging journalism, but mostly the Press has, I think, echoed and indeed amplified the general panic.

Q The restrictions in movement have also changed the relationship between the police and those whose, in name, they serve. The police are naming and shaming citizens for travelling at what they see as the wrong time or driving to the wrong place. Does that set alarm bells ringing for you, as a former senior member of the judiciary?

A Well, I have to say, it does. I mean, the tradition of policing in this country is that policemen are citizens in uniform. They are not members of a disciplined hierarchy operating just at the government's command. Yet in some parts of the country the police have been trying to stop people from doing things like travelling to take exercise in the open country which are not contrary to the regulations, simply because ministers have said that they would prefer us not to. The police have no power to enforce ministers' preferences, but only legal regulations which don't go anything like as far as the government's guidance. I have to say that the behaviour of the Derbyshire police in trying to shame people into using their undoubted right to take exercise in the country and wrecking beauty spots in the Fells so that people don't want to go there, is frankly disgraceful.

This is what a police state is like. It's a state in which the government can issue orders or express preferences with no legal authority and the police will enforce ministers' wishes. I have to say that most police forces have behaved in a thoroughly sensible and moderate fashion. Derbyshire Police have shamed our policing traditions. There is a natural tendency of course, and a strong temptation for the police to lose sight of their real functions and turn themselves from citizens in uniform into glorified school prefects. I think it's really sad that the Derbyshire Police have failed to resist that.

Q There will be people listening who admire your legal wisdom but will also say, well, he's not an epidemiologist, he doesn't know how disease spreads, he doesn't understand the risks to the health service if this thing gets out of control. What do you say to them?

A What I say to them is I am not a scientist but it is the right and duty of every citizen to look and see what the scientists have said and to analyse it for themselves and to draw common sense conclusions. We are all perfectly capable of doing that and there's no particular reason why the scientific nature of the problem should mean we have to resign our liberty into the hands of scientists. We all have critical faculties and it's rather important, in a moment of national panic, that we should maintain them.”
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Incident happens - sensationalist media kicks in - population panics - governments react - populations then led to panic more - sensationalist media report - population panics more... and so on and so on. Yes this is serious but we live in an age when media is instant. Its with us all the time in our pockets, always available ffs. The pointless ‘mortality percentages’ when we dont even know how many people are infected. The misleading coronavirus cause of death reports etc. Yes this is serious but, yet again, the media are culpable in driving this like wind to a bushfire. Theyre NEVER held to account.
 
I think there will be a real problems if all the current controls and restrictions are released sudd and "personal liberties are restored fully and quickly".

If there is an announcement that all pubs and clubs are now open from 12 noon on the Xth of X month, then I can foresee a huge surge of crowds to them. (I'd be tempted).

Then there could be a equally huge surge in new cases.

In the same way the lockdown was brought in gradually over a few weeks, so the lock opening probably needs to happen gradually.

But I'm not at all sure how that can be done.
 
Trump had another cracking press conference. One day after announcing dire Coronovirus forecasts and Mike Pence today comparing the US to Italy in terms of statistics (????), today saw his two chief medical folk (Fauci and Birx) who have been ever-present, absent and instead at the Coronovirus press briefing, there was an update on how well the US war on narcotics is going. CNN response can be summed up as 'WTF'.
 
Hello everyone . Hope you are keeping as safe and well as you can. Certainly missing the football. I think we will see it come back in June. Severely spectator constrained of course.

Herd immunity is naturally gathering all the time as a result of family self isolation. Which idiot said it was genocide?

No proof at all - we all need to wait for antibody tests of course but believe 3 of 6 in our family have had it. 1 with moderate symptoms, 1 with mild symptoms, 1 asymptomatic . We are all now much much better but I still have occasional heavy bout of coughing and still have traces of the bug in my lungs. That’s 22 days after catching it . Worst day was day 10, very tight chest and horrendous cough . And the tiredness , it’s very very noticeable. For me it’s been a nasty bug, thankfully.

Many of our friends have had this virus in SW London. Its been endemic. I sense that the Ox Uni contention that 50% show no symptoms is right. As such social distancing is the only game in town.

People are taking social distancing extremely seriously here and the sense of community is simply terrific. Nightingale Hospital construction is a marvel; no expert of course but won’t it be used for palliative care mainly?

As far as the economy and jobs are concerned well the measures introduced by the Government are basically saying, we can help you for 3 months and then that’s it. We cannot afford more than 3 months effective lockdown and there will eventually be a trade off between saving lives affected by Covid and getting the country back to work.

sorry to be so blunt but that’s how I see it.

I really want to get back to discussing the declamations of our slightly eccentric manager and the deadly finishing skills of our number 9 but we’ve just got to be patient.

Incidentally it was very useful that we sold Baptiste and Fosu in the window wasn’t it?
 
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