International News Covid-19 .....

[Gary Baldi]

Back to the old debate on media influence: Does it reflect or shape public view? Is the same true of politics and pandemics? (Buggered if I know)

It is a phenomenally high difference - no arguments there. But why? Is it because the disease is less infectious than 'we' believe or because we are, to a large extent, 'doing the right thing' and containing it?

A lot of attention went into the numbers, but the overall context vs population and other diseases was lost or deliberately left out by the likes Piers Morgan shouting about it every day. We made COVID into a virus it was not and arguably have contributed to some people dying from other diseases as a consequence.

There is no question about how bad COVID is for those who catch it in certain categories - my intention is not minimise that or fob off their deaths are irrelevant. But when people substantially over estimate the cases and deaths, we need the media/social media/activists to reassess how it impacts the well-being of us all and people's livings by doing it.

 

[Gary Baldi]

This article from the NYT is very interesting into what is happening with non-COVID diseases because of the decision to lockdown.

They've not gone away

‘The Biggest Monster’ Is Spreading. And It’s Not the Coronavirus. (Published 2020)

Tuberculosis kills 1.5 million people each year. Lockdowns and supply-chain disruptions threaten progress against the disease as well as H.I.V. and malaria.

www.nytimes.com

 

[MarkG]

Reports from my mum and mother-in-law (who both live near the coast on different sides of the country) indicate that the great British unwashed are thronging ant like and abandoning all pretence of taking any care at all once they get there. One friend of my mum's (who lives IN the affected town) asked one person why they weren't wearing a mask, only to be told 'Nah, we've come down here to get away from all that." Locals are staying in and driving to shops away from the town. Public loos are not open.

what a nasty, privileged post. "the great British unwashed". "thronging ant like".

 

[Sheik djibouti]

what a nasty, privileged post. "the great British unwashed". "thronging ant like".

Absolutely - just call them twats...far more accurate

 

[ZeroTheHero]

what a nasty, privileged post. "the great British unwashed". "thronging ant like".

They are called 'emmets' by the Cornish - which means ants. Are all of the Cornish 'nasty' and 'privileged'?
'The great unwashed'? Read a dictionary " originally a patronizing or contemptuous use, now usually ironic in application, with reference to elitism"

Was it derogatory? Based on the behaviour they are exhibiting en masse (not social distancing, not wearing masks, presumably shitting in the sea because the loos aren't open) - yes, it sure was. Or maybe (as SD says) they are just twats. Sorry to be nasty about them

 

[MarkG]

The people criticising anyone daring to leave the city for a bit of fresh air have probably been having dinner parties and family gatherings and going to barbecues from the privilege of their house near the seaside in their nice garden. Just seems like a bit of class-ism based on an anecdote of one friend of mother and extrapolated across.

The other week I was at the butchers and saw a posh old lady buying a 5 kilo cooked ham and saying it was because "the whole family are coming round for Sunday lunch" and I think the Surrey social scene has given up on meet ups only between two households and less than 6 people meeting, and I heard one bar manager (at a bar which is still shut) had apparently gone to another pub where his locals had decamped to, and proceeded to hug everyone of them to say hello again. The NE England lockdown has now spread to the "white" population as well as the Aberdeen footballers who all went pubbing.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

The people criticising anyone daring to leave the city for a bit of fresh air have probably been having dinner parties and family gatherings and going to barbecues from the privilege of their house near the seaside in their nice garden. Just seems like a bit of class-ism based on an anecdote of one friend of mother and extrapolated across.

The other week I was at the butchers and saw a posh old lady buying a 5 kilo cooked ham and saying it was because "the whole family are coming round for Sunday lunch" and I think the Surrey social scene has given up on meet ups only between two households and less than 6 people meeting, and I heard one bar manager (at a bar which is still shut) had apparently gone to another pub where his locals had decamped to, and proceeded to hug everyone of them to say hello again. The NE England lockdown has now spread to the "white" population as well as the Aberdeen footballers who all went pubbing.

Well if you are referring to me a) I am not 'posh' b) I have not been having dinner parties or barbeques in my own garden or anyone else's. I have been significantly out of the house five times since March - all very strictly socially distanced. My mother is in her mid 80s, asthmatic and has not left her house at all, apart from having to be taken to hospital by ambulance after a very nasty fall - I have not even been to see her in case I infect her. Because of the amount of people locally she is scared to go out at all. In a 'normal' summer the town is busy enough - now it is absolutely rammed.

I have friends who have gone to the seaside - having booked accommodation. I have no great problem with that. What I *do* have a problem with is people bunging a tent in their car, driving miles across the country to the seaside with nowhere to stay, then 'wild camping' without any sanitary facilities, not observing any of the hygiene measures that they are supposed to, not being sensitive to the locals and thinking that's OK. If you think that's nasty etc then I am sorry, but the truth is they are being inconsiderate to other people (including people that they then come into contact with when they are back) and are prolonging the outbreak of this disease which is still killing people's loved ones.

Black, brown, white, 'posh' or not, young or old - if you aren't observing the rules (and I mean the spirit of them, not trying to bend them to fit what you want to do) then you are an idiot.

 

[MarkG]

Well if you are referring to me a) I am not 'posh' b) I have not been having dinner parties or barbeques in my own garden or anyone else's. I have been significantly out of the house five times since March - all very strictly socially distanced. My mother is in her mid 80s, asthmatic and has not left her house at all, apart from having to be taken to hospital by ambulance after a very nasty fall - I have not even been to see her in case I infect her. Because of the amount of people locally she is scared to go out at all. In a 'normal' summer the town is busy enough - now it is absolutely rammed.

I have friends who have gone to the seaside - having booked accommodation. I have no great problem with that. What I *do* have a problem with is people bunging a tent in their car, driving miles across the country to the seaside with nowhere to stay, then 'wild camping' without any sanitary facilities, not observing any of the hygiene measures that they are supposed to, not being sensitive to the locals and thinking that's OK. If you think that's nasty etc then I am sorry, but the truth is they are being inconsiderate to other people (including people that they then come into contact with when they are back) and are prolonging the outbreak of this disease which is still killing people's loved ones.

Black, brown, white, 'posh' or not, young or old - if you aren't observing the rules (and I mean the spirit of them, not trying to bend them to fit what you want to do) then you are an idiot.

Apologies for your personal circumstances, I only go by what I see and read of what other people are doing. There seems to be a lot of judgemental looking down on people.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

No need to apologise, I suspect most people on here can tell you about something similar and so far nothing catastrophic has happened.

Don't get me wrong though. I *am* being judgemental and looking down on people! Not because of who or what they are, but because of what they are doing.

 

[m]

A lot of attention went into the numbers, but the overall context vs population and other diseases was lost or deliberately left out by the likes Piers Morgan shouting about it every day. We made COVID into a virus it was not and arguably have contributed to some people dying from other diseases as a consequence.

There is no question about how bad COVID is for those who catch it in certain categories - my intention is not minimise that or fob off their deaths are irrelevant. But when people substantially over estimate the cases and deaths, we need the media/social media/activists to reassess how it impacts the well-being of us all and people's livings by doing it.

Agree with the first paragraph.

The second one is a bit chicken and egg though. Are the number of deaths, and especially cases, lower than estimated because people have been scared into 'doing the right thing'?

 

[Whingit]

I dunno about the media. When we lose once or twice before xmas, the bed wetting and cries of guaranteed relegation aren't media driven.

 

[LowerSouth]

what a nasty, privileged post. "the great British unwashed". "thronging ant like".

Public loos not being open is rather odd .
They are not excluded where there is no local lockdown.
It’s high season on the coast, rather short sighted of the appropriate council.
Numbers visiting the coast are bound to be much higher, most brits are vacationing here in the UK.

 

[Essexyellows]

Public loo`s won`t open because of the contamination risk without more frequent cleaning.
Covid carrier goes in touch`s door handles, flush handles, taps etc etc. High volume of other users ....... kaboom.

Local councils won`t have Toilet attendants like they used too because of the cost...

 

[Marked Ox]

Coronavirus: Contact tracers to be reduced by 6,000 in England

The rest will focus on reaching positive cases and their contacts in local areas, alongside local teams.

www.bbc.co.uk

Who would have known the existing system of Public Health teams with expertise in the matter were the best option?!

 

[Essexyellows]

Coronavirus: Contact tracers to be reduced by 6,000 in England

The rest will focus on reaching positive cases and their contacts in local areas, alongside local teams.

www.bbc.co.uk

Who would have known the existing system of Public Health teams with expertise in the matter were the best option?!

They didn`t have the numbers though. Best bet is train them elsewhere then embed them into the existing teams.
Training folk takes people away from the day job..... then, when they put the numbers into PHE, it`s dressed up as "cuts".
Always alternative views.

 

[Marked Ox]

They didn`t have the numbers though. Best bet is train them elsewhere then embed them into the existing teams.
Training folk takes people away from the day job..... then, when they put the numbers into PHE, it`s dressed up as "cuts".
Always alternative views.

The teams had plenty of time from early in the lockdown if the Govt gone with them. Track and trace wasn't up for a long time. You are just finding an excuse with that.

 

[Gary Baldi]

Agree with the first paragraph.

The second one is a bit chicken and egg though. Are the number of deaths, and especially cases, lower than estimated because people have been scared into 'doing the right thing'?

I don't think so. There are some analysis floating around that shutting down has caused 2 extra deaths for every 3 COVID deaths because people didn't want to go to hospital for conditions - the A & E stats give a nod to that. We made COVID into a disease it's not and not enough was done to contextualise what it is and it's effects vs other diseases we live with.

 

[m]

I don't think so. There are some analysis floating around that shutting down has caused 2 extra deaths for every 3 COVID deaths because people didn't want to go to hospital for conditions - the A & E stats give a nod to that. We made COVID into a disease it's not and not enough was done to contextualise what it is and it's effects vs other diseases we live with.

Surely you can't be arguing that lockdown hasn't significantly reduced the number of COVID cases to date?

On overall deaths you may have a point. Certainly every effort must be made to find out.

 

[chuckbert]

There are some analysis floating around that shutting down has caused 2 extra deaths for every 3 COVID deaths

Link?

the A & E stats give a nod to that

Link?

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Surely you can't be arguing that lockdown hasn't significantly reduced the number of COVID cases to date?

On overall deaths you may have a point. Certainly every effort must be made to find out.

I'm not sure how that would work though.

If we hadn't locked down there would (unarguably I'd have thought?) have been more cases of Covid.
If that's the case there would have been (apart from the inevitable extra deaths) more people seriously ill in hospital.
(Which is pretty impressive for 'a disease that it is not' by the way!)
The more people stuck in hospital for weeks using all the resources, even LESS would have been available to treat other people, even less hospital appointments would have gone ahead.
So while I can see that a lot of people will have died over the last few months because they didn't get to a hospital, I am not sure how having the hospitals even more under stress could possibly have improved that?