Charlie & the Big Don

[OX18]

Rodwell Contract Cancelled

Wonder how much that ended up setting them back, if anything?

Thats probably what this new ten million short term loan is needed for, to pay off players inc Rodwell. I was reading last week that their previous CEO Margaret Byrne, who was the one who bought Rodwell to the club and agreed the five year contract , is now his agent. After dropping the club in the manure with a huge contract, she is now acting for him to get the remaining three years paid off (£42K a week now since they were relegated) It all seems pretty crazy up on Wearside with their huge liabilities.............as copied from an article last week.....


''''''''It has already been reported that Ellis Short has allowed the new owners to buy the club in instalments because they couldn’t afford to pay the £40m up front. The Times have revealed that the new owners paid only £15m up front and now have to pay the rest in two further instalments, one of those next summer but the other in only three months time (September 2018).

The Mackems are still due around £49m in parachute payments, with £34m this coming season and £15m in 2019/20 but around half of that cash is what the buying of the club is secured on AND The Times have revealed that another significant portion of this coming season’s parachute payment has already ‘been accounted for as it is required to pay off a previous bank loan agreed by Short.''''''''''’

No wonder Stewart Donald is reported to have said ..we should have a top three budget after they announced they are looking for another ten million loan. Their only positive at the moment is their increased season ticket sales.

 

[MarkG]

Rodwell Contract Cancelled

Wonder how much that ended up setting them back, if anything?

Thats probably what this new ten million short term loan is needed for, to pay off players inc Rodwell. I was reading last week that their previous CEO Margaret Byrne, who was the one who bought Rodwell to the club and agreed the five year contract , is now his agent. After dropping the club in the manure with a huge contract, she is now acting for him to get the remaining three years paid off (£42K a week now since they were relegated) It all seems pretty crazy up on Wearside with their huge liabilities.............as copied from an article last week.....


''''''''It has already been reported that Ellis Short has allowed the new owners to buy the club in instalments because they couldn’t afford to pay the £40m up front. The Times have revealed that the new owners paid only £15m up front and now have to pay the rest in two further instalments, one of those next summer but the other in only three months time (September 2018).

The Mackems are still due around £49m in parachute payments, with £34m this coming season and £15m in 2019/20 but around half of that cash is what the buying of the club is secured on AND The Times have revealed that another significant portion of this coming season’s parachute payment has already ‘been accounted for as it is required to pay off a previous bank loan agreed by Short.''''''''''’

No wonder Stewart Donald is reported to have said ..we should have a top three budget after they announced they are looking for another ten million loan. Their only positive at the moment is their increased season ticket sales.

Trainset Stu also said that Sunderland should have a squad budget that a few championship clubs would be jealous of. So does that mean a bottom four of the championship budget ?

Good luck to them. It looks like CM’s input is time and PR and I guess a wage with a side bet on a takeover with a small minority shareholding.

Listening to his interviews he’s saying all the things you’d like to hear at OUFC. But whether 95% or fans agree is a matter of time. Things like the premium pricing of SSU seats here , CM defended as a logical progression of a club on the up but with lots of spare seats.

 

[Sinner]

Trainset Stu also said that Sunderland should have a squad budget that a few championship clubs would be jealous of. So does that mean a bottom four of the championship budget ?

Good luck to them. It looks like CM’s input is time and PR and I guess a wage with a side bet on a takeover with a small minority shareholding.

Listening to his interviews he’s saying all the things you’d like to hear at OUFC. But whether 95% or fans agree is a matter of time. Things like the premium pricing of SSU seats here , CM defended as a logical progression of a club on the up but with lots of spare seats.

The budget is there and as stated many times, SD had to prove he had the funds to finance his plan to EFL. However, we are bound by EFL fair play rules and our wage bill to turnover ration is far too high. We have to sell a bunch of players on circa £50k/wk (yikes!) and can sign players for less tan a tenth of that. We are stuck until we get shot of the likes of Kone and Khazri. Very difficult task for the manager as he has a squad of players who don't want to be there and are waiting to leave, but he can't recruit until they do.

 

[Scotchegg]

The budget is there and as stated many times, SD had to prove he had the funds to finance his plan to EFL. However, we are bound by EFL fair play rules and our wage bill to turnover ration is far too high. We have to sell a bunch of players on circa £50k/wk (yikes!) and can sign players for less tan a tenth of that. We are stuck until we get shot of the likes of Kone and Khazri. Very difficult task for the manager as he has a squad of players who don't want to be there and are waiting to leave, but he can't recruit until they do.

But to be fair, none of this is surprising. Either you have to offload for a fraction of their value, or buy out their contracts, or potentially going in to yet another season with players who don't want to be there and not performing?

When Chas and SD came bouncing in everyone was blown away with the talk of a new Sunderland. New direction, new players and new hope. But the reality is that you could find yourselves in just as bad a situation as last season but with only one shot at making this work.

Basket case club could be a description that comes back to bit Charles on his chino'd ass!!!

 

[Sinner]

But to be fair, none of this is surprising. Either you have to offload for a fraction of their value, or buy out their contracts, or potentially going in to yet another season with players who don't want to be there and not performing?

When Chas and SD came bouncing on yo the season everyone was blown away with the talk of a new Sunderland. New direction, new players and new hope. But the reality is that you could find yourselves in just as bad a situation as last season but with only one shot at making this work.

Basket case club could be a description that comes back to bit Charles on his chino'd ass!!!

It is a basket case club but definitely in process of a complete overhaul, so we are still positive. Some of the highly paid players have stated they won't play for us again, so SD has informed them if that is the case he will stop paying them and hold onto to their registrations. Very refreshing.

 

[Scotchegg]

It is a basket case club but definitely in process of a complete overhaul, so we are still positive. Some of the highly paid players have stated they won't play for us again, so SD has informed them if that is the case he will stop paying them and hold onto to their registrations. Very refreshing.

It may be refreshing but it simply won't happen. Managers and Chairmen have been saying the same thing at various clubs for years, but like with Rodwell, the players will continue to be paid and get a pay off to leave. Just like saying that they won't deal with agents, it's nice to say but naive to believe it will actually happen.

 

[Deleted member 222]

It is a basket case club but definitely in process of a complete overhaul, so we are still positive. Some of the highly paid players have stated they won't play for us again, so SD has informed them if that is the case he will stop paying them and hold onto to their registrations. Very refreshing.

It might be what you want to hear but legally they can’t do that. If a player is under contract the club have to pay them their wage.
They could fine them but the maximum fine is 2 weeks max.

 

[Scotchegg]

It might be what you want to hear but legally they can’t do that. If a player is under contract the club have to pay them their wage.
They could fine them but the maximum fine is 2 weeks max.

Unfortunately Charles will soon find out that there is a massive difference to saying what people want to hear, and delivering it.

Talk of a massive playing budget that would shame a Championship side is great. But not when that is being spent on vastly overpaid players who don't want to be there. And it is great to state that you won't deal with agents but all you get are players who are known to the manager or, in Maguires case, the owner. This model worked brilliantly for Pep didn't it?!!

The more I look at it, the happier I am with our situation at Oxford than the mess at Sunderland. I'd rather have Tiger saying nothing but quietly sorting out the club rather than a basket case with slick PR!!!

 

[holdsteady]

What agent would let there player sign a contract like that?

Football players contracts are water tight, you can’t just stop paying them. Donald and Methven can say what they like, but they will end up giving them a pay off or paying the wages, all the tough talk will add up to nothing.

Sunderland are an interesting case, even allowing for the fact they are a basket case they should have enough money to win the league so huge is the chasm in finances, but they haven’t been punching their weight management and player recruitment wise so far, and a few of the stories finance wise have not been promising. I wonder if the great deal hyped by the new ownership team to buy the club was the bargain it seemed or a lot of spin? They were certainly quick over to Monaco to get Charlie’s bezzy mate involved.

Would still fancy them to go up, but as said above owning a football club is about more than spouting hot air, which is all they have managed so far.

 

[Scotchegg]

The fact that Satori picked up 20% for £3m shows that they are either desperate for cash or that the investment has been far lower than initially portrayed. For all of Charlies guff, he is massively out of his depth here and I think SD will soon realise that Sunderland is vastly different to throwing a few million at Eastleigh.

All this aside, Sunderland will still be competitive this season and could still win the league comfortably. But there are no guarantees and not going up could easily see the club becoming another Portsmouth with years of pain ahead.

 

[Deleted member 222]

The fact that Satori picked up 20% for £3m shows that they are either desperate for cash or that the investment has been far lower than initially portrayed. For all of Charlies guff, he is massively out of his depth here and I think SD will soon realise that Sunderland is vastly different to throwing a few million at Eastleigh.

All this aside, Sunderland will still be competitive this season and could still win the league comfortably. But there are no guarantees and not going up could easily see the club becoming another Portsmouth with years of pain ahead.

I think SD might of realised just how difficult this project of his will be.
Doesn’t matter how good the PR is, eventually fans will see through this.
Kelvin was brilliant at PR but we ended up playing a game of football where by if we lost we were in danger of being a part time club!

 

[Sinner]

The fact that Satori picked up 20% for £3m shows that they are either desperate for cash or that the investment has been far lower than initially portrayed. For all of Charlies guff, he is massively out of his depth here and I think SD will soon realise that Sunderland is vastly different to throwing a few million at Eastleigh.

All this aside, Sunderland will still be competitive this season and could still win the league comfortably. But there are no guarantees and not going up could easily see the club becoming another Portsmouth with years of pain ahead.

Sartori has been brought in to invest once/if we get into the Championship. He is not investing this season, which will be based on turnover. They are not buying our way out of the league.

 

[Sinner]

What agent would let there player sign a contract like that?

Football players contracts are water tight, you can’t just stop paying them. Donald and Methven can say what they like, but they will end up giving them a pay off or paying the wages, all the tough talk will add up to nothing.

Sunderland are an interesting case, even allowing for the fact they are a basket case they should have enough money to win the league so huge is the chasm in finances, but they haven’t been punching their weight management and player recruitment wise so far, and a few of the stories finance wise have not been promising. I wonder if the great deal hyped by the new ownership team to buy the club was the bargain it seemed or a lot of spin? They were certainly quick over to Monaco to get Charlie’s bezzy mate involved.

Would still fancy them to go up, but as said above owning a football club is about more than spouting hot air, which is all they have managed so far.

Disciplinary proceedings have started. If they don't turn up for training they won't get paid and they will be fined.

 

[Marked Ox]

Disciplinary proceedings have started. If they don't turn up for training they won't get paid and they will be fined.

Easy for the players. Players turn up for training but make little effort. The club would have to pay them as it would have a serious problem proving they aren't fulfilling their contract. It could also have the knock on effect of screwing with the squad's team spirit.

The club could make them train separately but that kind of defeats the point if the manager wants to use them. In this case, you'd be better off telling them to make a transfer request if they want to leave, say you won't make any wage disparity up with a new club should they be able to get one. If the club doesn't want them then suggest they find another club but don't bother coming in for training although a contract pay off may be required.

Sadly, the balance has gone too far in favour of players and they really hold the cards in the short term. How it affects future prospects for them could be a different matter and will depend player by player.

 

[Scotchegg]

Sartori has been brought in to invest once/if we get into the Championship. He is not investing this season, which will be based on turnover. They are not buying our way out of the league.

But he still owes 20% for a £3m investment, valuing the club at £15m. That is either a very low valuation or (like Dragon's Den) desperation has meant that more equality has been given to get the cash in.

As for not buying yourself out of the league, I suggest that you do! If things are hard this year, try doing it without millions of Sky money!!

 

[Foley]

At the moment we don't know what is going on. The £10m 'unexpected legal fees' would set alarm bells ringing in my ears, but maybe it was not a big deal as SD implied.

The one thing that has surprised me is that Sunderland have taken a clear gamble on the manager and haven't made any statement signings yet. That despite SD/ CMs comments on the massive size of the budget.

Kyle Taylor and the Shrewsbury Captain have gone to Charlton/ Coventry. Blackburn and Wigan both added to already strong squads. Sunderland had a basket case of a squad and have far far more to do than Blackburn or Wigan. Much as I loved Maguire as a player here, he needs a really good manager who can deal with him. MAPP was brilliant, but it is a gamble by Sunderland.

If I were a Sunderland supporter, I would have some minor concerns already.

 

[MarkG]

Sartori has been brought in to invest once/if we get into the Championship. He is not investing this season, which will be based on turnover. They are not buying our way out of the league.

But he still owes 20% for a £3m investment, valuing the club at £15m. That is either a very low valuation or (like Dragon's Den) desperation has meant that more equality has been given to get the cash in.

As for not buying yourself out of the league, I suggest that you do! If things are hard this year, try doing it without millions of Sky money!!

That’s not how company valuations work for a private company and a minority shareholding. A 20% holding doesn’t even get you to block special resolutions , assuming Charlie and Stu vote together so can basically vote through whatever they want.

 

[Scotchegg]

That’s not how company valuations work for a private company and a minority shareholding. A 20% holding doesn’t even get you to block special resolutions , assuming Charlie and Stu vote together so can basically vote through whatever they want.

Even still a 20% stake for £3m is a steal regardless of voting rights, unless of course the finances are worse than they are letting on?

 

[Paul Cannell]

Even still a 20% stake for £3m is a steal regardless of voting rights, unless of course the finances are worse than they are letting on?

Unless you buy the shares just as the Titanic leaves the dock.

At the moment it's anybody's guess how they'll attempt to get out of Division 3. Is Stewart really using the parachute to fund re-structuring rather than promotion? If so, lucky he's got Charlie there who's done it before to help that young lad they got to manage their team.

 

[LondonRoader]

Whispers of disquiet behind the scenes at SAFC, I wonder if there will be more backroom departures.

How might chaz be accepted back on these boards if he ever popped his head up..