Other European Bulgaria v England

Now it all makes sense. Borislav Mihaylov was a goal keeper for Reading in the 90s. That town must have infected his mind with some awful virus or he really is that deluded and awful at his job ;)
 
Gary Baldi said:
Now it all makes sense. Borislav Mihaylov was a goal keeper for Reading in the 90s. That town must have infected his mind with some awful virus or he really is that deluded and awful at his job ;)
Click to expand...
Wonder if he played against us.
 
Sounds like their whole culture is riddled with denial. And racism.

It makes you look and sound stupid when the TV footage showed Nazi salutes and 'No Respect' t-shirts being displayed by a load of people some of whom had bandanas over their faces and the you could clearly hear the monkey noises on the audio feed - and then you deny any of it was happening. I wonder what was being shouted in Bulgarian that we couldn't make out or understand.

The more you hear the Bulgarian players/manager/press spout, the more you think that the football authorities have to give them a forceable dose of reality. Bet they don't though...
 
bashamwonderland said:
Bet this gets tasty after the final whistle (whenever that might be). Hope the England fans go all 1990s on them.
Click to expand...
Sadly the England fans of the 90's would have probably joined in the racist chanting!!

It's a bit pathetic when we are trying to pretend that our scum are somehow better than the other scum.
 
Scotchegg said:
Sadly the England fans of the 90's would have probably joined in the racist chanting!!

It's a bit pathetic when we are trying to pretend that our scum are somehow better than the other scum.
Click to expand...
To be fair you never hear racism in English league football now, not sure about England internationals though
 
werthersoriginal said:
To be fair you never hear racism in English league football now, not sure about England internationals though
Click to expand...
Rarely but not never. There have been a number of instances over recent years (most recently at Hartlepool in the last month but also in the EFL)
It is normally one or two people involved.
 
werthersoriginal said:
To be fair you never hear racism in English league football now, not sure about England internationals though
Click to expand...
You might not hear it en masse or explicit, but it's still there in pockets sadly.

I've heard people say things like "they all look the same" when confusing black players, or "you're black, you're supposed to be quick" when slagging off a player. When challenged people often say that it's only a bit of fun or banter, but that can't still be acceptable.

We then have those who mock Tiger as being a funny little foreign man, and I have no doubt that some don't like us having an owner who isn't white. It may only be a very small handful, but it's still sad that these views exist in the 21st century.

We've come a long way in society and football since the 80's, but we are still far from perfect and maybe the incident in Bulgaria will be the wake up call we all need to stand up to racism/ignorance once and for all.
 
It’s an interesting and difficult one this one. Without doubt there was racism but I’d be interested to hear from one of our England followers how much of the stadium it was.

The build up to the game was all about the racism. And the thirty or so ultras and stewards who joined them seemed like the key protagonists. It almost seemed like they were intent on the publicity and wanting to create an issue and a reaction. / counter reaction vibe. (The philosophy of Bin Laden comes to mind where he knew the Americans would react to his aggressions and create a counter reaction). They had pre printed No Respect clothing etc.

so how do you handle 30 people seeking publicity in a stadium of let’s say 10000? Can 30 people be responsible for getting an entire nation expelled? It almost feels like the smoke bomb scenario we had where the FA threatened the whole club for the actions of a small number.

Having said that I remember going to Slovakia away and being disgusted by how many home fans were monkey chanting Emile Heskey and impressed by the angry response of almost ALL the England fans. So I wouldn’t discount that many more Bulgarians were involved and the media have just focused on that attebtion seeking group


I was very unimpressed by their goalkeeper and managers response

the captain was very impressive going in to challenge the fans and the authorities appear to have made some arrests.

the presidents comments were weird. He seemed to polarise between mentioning the racism to being more annoyed by the result.
 
Last edited:
Wallop said:
Scotland won their Nations League group whereas Bulgaria finished behind Norway and it's the highest placed non-qualifier from each group that goes into the play-offs (I think!). Norway currently only 4th in their Euro group.
Click to expand...

So it's actually more complicated than that!

All the teams in each league of the Nations League were independently ranked based on the number of points they got in that competition. Bulgaria got the most points of any of the second place finishers in League C, so they were ranked 5th in League C.

For the Euro 2020 playoffs, they take the top four ranked teams from each league that have not otherwise qualified.
Scotland were ranked #1, so they'll definitely be in. Norway & Serbia (ranked #2 & #3) are probably not going to qualify automatically either, so they're likely in. But Finland (ranked #4) are almost certainly going to qualify from Group J - they only need to beat Liechtenstein at home to nail it down. So the 4th spot will almost certainly go to the 5th ranked team instead, which is Bulgaria.

It actually gets even more complicated, because if any of the Leagues don't have four teams in them that haven't already qualified (and at the moment, it looks like only Iceland won't qualify automatically from League A), then they select more teams from the leagues below to make up the playoffs.
So even if Finland somehow screw it up, then it's still likely that Bulgaria will make the playoffs as the 5th ranked team in League C because there won't be eight non-qualified teams in Leagues A & B combined.


Which all means that yes, Bulgaria will be in the Euro 2020 playoffs in March - so chucking them out would be a genuine punishment.

(although they looked so bad this week, that you'd bet on even Scotland beating them. I'd wager Serbia would absolutely demolish them)
 
tonyw said:
So it's actually more complicated than that!

All the teams in each league of the Nations League were independently ranked based on the number of points they got in that competition. Bulgaria got the most points of any of the second place finishers in League C, so they were ranked 5th in League C.

For the Euro 2020 playoffs, they take the top four ranked teams from each league that have not otherwise qualified.
Scotland were ranked #1, so they'll definitely be in. Norway & Serbia (ranked #2 & #3) are probably not going to qualify automatically either, so they're likely in. But Finland (ranked #4) are almost certainly going to qualify from Group J - they only need to beat Liechtenstein at home to nail it down. So the 4th spot will almost certainly go to the 5th ranked team instead, which is Bulgaria.

It actually gets even more complicated, because if any of the Leagues don't have four teams in them that haven't already qualified (and at the moment, it looks like only Iceland won't qualify automatically from League A), then they select more teams from the leagues below to make up the playoffs.
So even if Finland somehow screw it up, then it's still likely that Bulgaria will make the playoffs as the 5th ranked team in League C because there won't be eight non-qualified teams in Leagues A & B combined.


Which all means that yes, Bulgaria will be in the Euro 2020 playoffs in March - so chucking them out would be a genuine punishment.

(although they looked so bad this week, that you'd bet on even Scotland beating them. I'd wager Serbia would absolutely demolish them)
Click to expand...

My brain hurts.
 
Ricky Otto said:
It’s an interesting and difficult one this one. Without doubt there was racism but I’d be interested to hear from one of our England followers how much of the stadium it was.

The build up to the game was all about the racism. And the thirty or so ultras and stewards who joined them seemed like the key protagonists. It almost seemed like they were intent on the publicity and wanting to create an issue and a reaction. / counter reaction vibe. (The philosophy of Bin Laden comes to mind where he knew the Americans would react to his aggressions and create a counter reaction). They had pre printed No Respect clothing etc.

so how do you handle 30 people seeking publicity in a stadium of let’s say 10000? Can 30 people be responsible for getting an entire nation expelled? It almost feels like the smoke bomb scenario we had where the FA threatened the whole club for the actions of a small number.

Having said that I remember going to Slovakia away and being disgusted by how many home fans were monkey chanting Emile Heskey and impressed by the angry response of almost ALL the England fans. So I wouldn’t discount that many more Bulgarians were involved and the media have just focused on that attebtion seeking group


I was very unimpressed by their goalkeeper and managers response

the captain was very impressive going in to challenge the fans and the authorities appear to have made some arrests.

the presidents comments were weird. He seemed to polarise between mentioning the racism to being more annoyed by the result.
Click to expand...
They were suggesting in TV that it was in no way just that 30 or so. There were apparently such chants from just behind the dugout and near the media part. Sure the media have concentrated on the 30 or so as they visibly gave nazi salutes and it was simple to see what they were doing (apparently the Bulgarian media guy giving Southgate a hard time afterwards backed down a little when shown the footage)
But from a number of reports. there was plenty more racist chanting.
 
The reason they deserve to be punished is not because of the actions of a small (???) number of the people in the stadium, but because their management, politicians and press seem to be in a state of denial. The actions of the group in the stadium were plain to see, so how can they scream “nothing to see here”?
 
Foley said:
They were suggesting in TV that it was in no way just that 30 or so. There were apparently such chants from just behind the dugout and near the media part. Sure the media have concentrated on the 30 or so as they visibly gave nazi salutes and it was simple to see what they were doing (apparently the Bulgarian media guy giving Southgate a hard time afterwards backed down a little when shown the footage)
But from a number of reports. there was plenty more racist chanting.
Click to expand...

in that case it’s case closed
 
Scotchegg said:
Sadly the England fans of the 90's would have probably joined in the racist chanting!!

It's a bit pathetic when we are trying to pretend that our scum are somehow better than the other scum.
Click to expand...
I was an England fan in the 90’s and can honestly say I didn’t join in also many others didn’t either . Your opening line is rather sweeping.
 
Blox21 said:
I was an England fan in the 90’s and can honestly say I didn’t join in also many others didn’t either . Your opening line is rather sweeping.
Click to expand...
It was a response to the equally sweeping statement that the England fans of the 90's would have given the Bulgarian fans a good kicking!

Bulgarian racist or English thugs are always in the minority but sadly have a far great impact on wider perceptions.

I've no doubt that you and thousands of others were decent, respectful football fans, but were still tainted by the actions of the few.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

BristolOx
  • Locked
Other European Bulgaria 0 - 4 England (HT)
Replies
0
Views
2K
BristolOx
BristolOx
Sarge
  • Poll
European Championships Nike England Shirt
2 3 4
Replies
76
Views
3K
LeftSideLarry
LeftSideLarry
ZeroTheHero
European Championships England v Malta/Macedonia
4 5 6
Replies
102
Views
4K
Mad Dog
Mad Dog
S
Other European England Squad
2
Replies
21
Views
2K
Marked Ox
M
Northstandboy
World Cup 20/08/2023: Women’s World Cup 2023 FINAL - Spain v England
5 6 7
Replies
127
Views
5K
Marked Ox
M
Back
Top Bottom