Brexit

#5
We are leaving. There will be an endless "transition" until those who lost are convinced they can win by some weaseled reasoning and democracy will be declared dead.
 
#7
TBH all this talk about "transition" post Brexit is worth moaning about. :)
29th March 2019 should be the day that we say goodbye to the Club we don`t want to be a member of, what we joined was a European Market based on free trade.........what it has become is a desire for a United States of Europe.
There has been sufficient time to sort out the high level legislation, what seems to lack is the political will.
I have no issue with us paying for what we are legally committed but as of that day our subs stop.
If that is "Cliff Edge Brexit" so be it, drop back to WTO rules & crack on trading with people that want to trade with us...and there will be plenty of them.
 

Marked Ox

Well-known member
#8
And I thought us remainers were known to moan ;)
Oh, the Breximoaners are becoming very vocal such as:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42493735

Nevermind, the Daily Mail or Telegraph headlines/main articles when the Govt is defeated over Brexit in Parliament or in the Courts.

The hypocrisy of the Bow Group's chairman is fantastic. Then again the hypocrisy of Lord Tebbit etc is up there as well moaning about somebody pushing their view when it isn't Govt policy considering he's done it most of his career involving the EU, and the Tory Party.
 
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tonyw

Active member
#10
TBH all this talk about "transition" post Brexit is worth moaning about. :)
29th March 2019 should be the day that we say goodbye to the Club we don`t want to be a member of, what we joined was a European Market based on free trade.........what it has become is a desire for a United States of Europe.
There has been sufficient time to sort out the high level legislation, what seems to lack is the political will.
I have no issue with us paying for what we are legally committed but as of that day our subs stop.
If that is "Cliff Edge Brexit" so be it, drop back to WTO rules & crack on trading with people that want to trade with us...and there will be plenty of them.
To be fair, a Cliff Edge Brexit would be political suicide for May & co.

Firstly, because it would lead to an exodus of financial services from London and an (in the short term at least) economic downturn for the country. Those usually lead to the incumbent party getting turfed out.

Secondly, because it would mean they'd have to put a new border up - either in the middle of Ireland or the Irish Sea - and either of those things would P**s of the DUP and lose May her Commons majority.

And thirdly because 48% of the population would hate it and likely wouldn't vote for her again.

Now you might say that politicians should be bigger than that, and should put the will of the (slender) majority of the people above their own personal ambitions. But they're politicians, and they didn't get where they are today on principles.
 
#11
Ah yes the oft quoted "exodus of financial services"......... BoE will allow EU banks to operate without creating subsidiaries so thats a bit fluffy. A border doesn`t have to be hard or physical.....technology has moved on from that & the DUP won`t be needed if/when the money currently flowing to the EU remains within the UK system.
Slender majority it was but the not respecting that result will be the death of democracy. ;)
 
#15
Haven't you already noticed major banks are finding premises on the continent? Do you honestly believe that Britain will be economically stronger with no deal with their neighbours and the biggest trading block in the world? Seriously?

You can buy a stake in a new pointless ship though ;)
National Audit Office:
The scale of the support currently provided to UK banks has fallen from a peak of £955bn to £512bn, but the amount of cash currently borrowed by the government to support banks has risen by £7bn [to a total of £124bn] since December 2009.
According to the NAO report, overall the banks have paid £9.1bn in fees for the government's guarantees and indemnities that have peaked at nearly £1 trillion. The government has so far not had to pay out significantly on any of these liabilities.
RBS and Lloyds, which the government bought controlling stakes in, won't pay back until they are re-privatised. Other banks have paid interest on loans:
• Of the £21.59bn outstanding loan to Northern Rock, the company paid £0.58bn in interest in the last financial year.
• Of the £8.55bn outstanding to Bradford and Bingley,the taxpayer received £0.38bn in interest last year.
• Of the £26.05bn loaned to other non nationalised failing institutions, it received £0.52bn back.

Professor Desmond (Treasury Adviser Rtd):
The costs of the crisis are not simply the costs to the Treasury important those these may be. These are indeed only a pinprick compared to the costs for all of us due to the losses of output caused by the recession and in subsequent years caused by the financial crisis. Output [GDP ] is still some 4% below the previous peak in 2008, and during the years since the crisis [2008-2011] output would have grown by around 2.5% per annum but for the crisis. Output is scarcely growing at all during 2011 and will also grow well below its trend rate in the following years [2012 and 2013].

I have estimated taking into account the losses of output that would have occurred since 2008 without the financial crisis caused by the reckless lending of the banks, and projecting the losses forward until the end of 2012, that the total cost to the economy - all of us - is around 11 to 13% of GDP."



So a few global banks decide to up sticks? Ho hum, likewise some folks "cheap booze & fags" trips maybe more difficult. Retaining a lot of money within our own governance will more than compensate for the collateral damage. :)
Trade .... ironic that what the Common Market started as, is held up as the be all & end all. Business will sort that out, there won`t be any tit for tat tariffs or such like.
 
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#17
@Flean ....... Leavers are optimists .Remainers are pessimists.
I done a straw poll amongst folk I know and its pretty spot on. :)

Whilst the UK has lost a lot of traditional industry, a lot of what has replaced it is truly cutting edge, be that in health, manufacturing or otherwise. I truly believe (rightly or wrongly....my gamble!) that if we focus & invest more on our own infrastructure and future, rather than dragging others up to where we were 30 years ago, we (UK PLC) can have a brighter future than wasting decades being held back by others.
 
#18
Agree with the pessimism / optimism point... Maybe Realist / dreamer is more succinct though ;)
Not too sure about saying the UK is 30 years ahead of other eu countries though. Could also be turned around.. Take health care and transport networks in the UK and compare them to Germany / Netherlands / Scandinavia etc...
 

Peterdev

Active member
#19
I’ll be glad when we are finally out. There are so many career politicians trying to talk this country down because they feel brexit is doom and gloom. The likes of Heseltine and Adonis are bitter and twisted individuals who will never accept the verdict that was given in the referendum.
When I hear that Clegg has been knighted I wonder why. Is it for promising students a good deal...and then backtracking on it when in government? Or for services to Brussels?
A failed politician who wrecked his own party and reducing his MPs to a rump...rewarded with a knighthood.
My only surprise in the New Years Honours List was that Ted Heath wasn’t rewarded with a posthumous peerage
 

Marked Ox

Well-known member
#20
I’ll be glad when we are finally out. There are so many career politicians trying to talk this country down because they feel brexit is doom and gloom. The likes of Heseltine and Adonis are bitter and twisted individuals who will never accept the verdict that was given in the referendum.
When I hear that Clegg has been knighted I wonder why. Is it for promising students a good deal...and then backtracking on it when in government? Or for services to Brussels?
A failed politician who wrecked his own party and reducing his MPs to a rump...rewarded with a knighthood.
My only surprise in the New Years Honours List was that Ted Heath wasn’t rewarded with a posthumous peerage
They're bitter and twisted due to having a different view to you? That must make all the Pro Brexit Politicians utterly bitter and twisted then as plenty of them have moaned for decades following your criteria.

And Nick Clegg, a failed politician?! The bloke was a key part in one of the better Govts and had a long political career. Unfortunately, the Lib Dems got blamed and the Tories got away with the mistakes by the coalition.
 
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