National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

[Marked Ox]

How long does it take a Tory to count to 316[emoji15]

They got Diane Abbott to do the count for them.

 

[Gary Baldi]

No, we shouldn't re-vote on everything, only when it's logical. My point was that the two scenarios I quoted are similar, and I've explained why. If an effective re-vote was justified for May's leadership, then a re-vote on Brexit is also justified.

Your X Factor example is, on the other hand, fatuous, being based on personal preference, rather than logic.

PS Given the alternative to the Tories, the chances of them losing the next election, whether May's in charge or not, is very unlikely.

With whose logic? What is being mooted is re-vote when people see it fit, which serves democracy how? As we are seeing, if we can't accept a result, we'll never move on from anything.

I think Maybot will win 70-80+ votes. Easy win for her

 

[Gary Baldi]

Confidence in the Maybot. 200 for, 117 against

 

[Marked Ox]

Rees-Mogg really is graceless in defeat.

 

[Gary Baldi]

You're being mischievous. We don't agree on much, which is fine, but give me credit when I make a reasonable point. The similarities are - again - changing minds because circumstances have changed, not objecting to someone winning a talent show because they're not to your personal liking.

May won 200-117, by the way. Rees-Mogg thinks that's a terrible result for her.

I'm only pointing out the flaws in the "people's vote" logic and where I think it lays dangerous traps ahead for the UK. The only constant in life is change. I worry we'll get stuck into a cycle of "people's votes" logic if that damn ever bursts, that will hold back the the country and how it is governed. Will every decision we don't like be met with a "people's vote" to change it and condemn us to paralysing short termism? At what point do we have to accept democracy, and the positives/negatives of it, rather than navel gazing about what some of us think was a wrong choice?

I still haven't seen much detail on when a "people's vote" can take place with the article 50 deadline looming - the legal one in January. All this talk is far too late and far too woolly in detail to be, and I say with the greatest respect, meaningful or legislatively worthwhile. It would further paralyse an already insipidly long and meandering process.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1072959603346944000

And some nice trolling from Comrade McDonnell

https://twitter.com/x/status/1072961182221377536

 

[Scotchegg]

You're being mischievous. We don't agree on much, which is fine, but give me credit when I make a reasonable point. The similarities are - again - changing minds because circumstances have changed, not objecting to someone winning a talent show because they're not to your personal liking.

May won 200-117, by the way. Rees-Mogg thinks that's a terrible result for her.

A vote which is won with 63% is terrible but a 52% vote for leave is massive?!

Too many people are so desperate to turn this whole thing towards their own agenda that they're losing sight of the democratic process.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Rees-Mogg is an a**e.

 

[Peterdev]

She actually won one more vote than when she was elected. Read into that what you will

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Rees-Mogg is an a**e.

Of the highest order. Wish he'd f**k off back to the 19th century.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

The thing is, the British 'Golden Age' (of the 19th or any other century) that he seems to want to recreate never existed (for us non-entitled oiks) in the first place!

 

[SteMerritt]

Of the highest order. Wish he'd f**k off back to the 19th century.

Well he's managed to unite views on this thread, everyone seems to have exactly the same opinion of him.

 

[Yellow River]

Congratulations to Mrs May.

I respect the result and will not be calling for a 2nd vote.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Congratulations to Mrs May.

I respect the result and will not be calling for a 2nd vote.

You might, but I suspect the 'European Research Group' won't. Which is the very definition of irony!

 

[Gary Baldi]

The vote yesterday essentially torpedoed Maybot's chances of getting here deal through parliament. She knows over 100 MPs in the Tory party won't for it and with the other side of the parliament not liking it, is her turkey cooked this Christmas? It's not just the ERG who don't like her.

Does her winning condemn us to a no deal?

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Does her winning condemn us to a no deal?

I suspect not. If there is one single thing that has the majority of MPs in agreement, it is that a No Deal would be an economic disaster for this country and the people living in it. Ken Clarke (about as pro-Europe as you can get in the Tory party) said yesterday that he would reluctantly vote for May's deal rather than allow a no deal to happen.

 

[Corporate_Clive]

Home defeat

 

[Yellow River]

You might, but I suspect the 'European Research Group' won't. Which is the very definition of irony!

Quite, which Is why I posted what I did.

Whether it’s Rees-Mogg whining or Alistair Campbell demanding a 2nd referendum. Complete lack of respect and humility for the result.

Worth posting (again) what Tony Benn said after the 1975 referendum - he campaigned to leave and was on the losing side.
“When the British people speak everyone, including members of Parliament, should tremble before their decision and that’s certainly the spirit with which I accept the result of the referendum”

 

[Yellow River]

Difficult vote to call.

MPs by nature say one thing and do another, so take with a pinch of salt on which way they say they will vote.

Only a fool would predict what happens next, so here goes.

May to win no confidence vote, but not by enough to strengthen her position. She’ll hang on though. Parliament will force a second referendum on the public. To remain in EU will be on the ballot paper, to leave on WTO terms or Canada+++ will not.

Well the first bit was fairly accurate

I still believe a second referendum will be forced on the public.

 

[Yellow River]

Where does leave the Conservative Party?

You can talk about a broad church, blah, blah, but the split and divisions are huge.

The grassroots members who do a lot of the local canvassing, leaflet postings, knocking on doors etc are much more attuned with the leave campaign and their aspirations.

Could we see a split? A new Europhile party formed by the likes of Sourbry, etc

 

[Gary Baldi]

I suspect not. If there is one single thing that has the majority of MPs in agreement, it is that a No Deal would be an economic disaster for this country and the people living in it. Ken Clarke (about as pro-Europe as you can get in the Tory party) said yesterday that he would reluctantly vote for May's deal rather than allow a no deal to happen.

The numbers just aren't there for May's deal, so where does that leave us? Labour won't vote for it, the SNP won't vote for it, the ERG won't vote for it. If it doesn't pass, the EU won't renegotiate and we kind of just fall out in that regard.

Where does leave the Conservative Party?

You can talk about a broad church, blah, blah, but the split and divisions are huge.

The grassroots members who do a lot of the local canvassing, leaflet postings, knocking on doors etc are much more attuned with the leave campaign and their aspirations.

Could we see a split? A new Europhile party formed by the likes of Sourbry, etc

I think Labour are as split, but they are letting the Govt rip itself apart. There has been talk of a Europhile party, but ultimately they'd be on the fringes with such a niche issue and those MPs would more than likely sink without a trace at the next election.