National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

[Essexyellows]

Just a random thought.............. should MP`s be morally obliged to vote in line with their constituencies referendum outcome?

That aside, polls are almost yesterdays news regarding accuracy, the best form of poll is a ballot box.

As far as the deal goes if TM is able to make it look & smell a bit more "Leave" then Labour could be condemned to years in the wilderness. Not a bad thing.

As far as "austerity" goes there comes a time the books need to be balanced, normally after Labour governments. Once that job is complete the opportunity to ease taxation and generate growth & better services etc happen almost naturally.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Don't agree with MPs being obliged to vote with the majority of constituents - In most circumstances they aren't even elected by the majority of constituents, so why would they feel obliged to vote contrary to their thinking/ideology? (NB - I would like to think that most will vote based on reasoned thinking following a full and frank appraisal of all the fact-based evidence to hand....but that is just crazy talk!!)

They stand for election and if you think they will represent your views more than any other, they will probably get your vote. If you don't agree with the way they have voted once elected, then you have an opportunity to choose someone different at the next election. Their first loyalty is to their party and then to the people who elect them - you would have the party whip if that weren't the case.

Anyway, TM has an impossible position to work from...no good was ever going to come from this and it was never going to be possible to satisfy enough MPs (let alone voters) to get this dogs breakfast through - CBI tearing it apart this morning. I suppose in one respect, you know it is the best compromise possible when factions diametrically opposed are equally incandescent about it!

As for your take on austerity . . .do you think that the impact has been shared proportionally across society?

If yes - how?
If no - do you think that is just?

I kind of agree with the UN on this one...or would they be another example of experts we've had enough of?

 

[Paul Cannell]

I would distrust a politician whose first loyalty was not to his constituency then region then country. This is not for a second saying he should vote the way his constituents vote or want. Armed with (god help us) wisdom derived from experience and expertise - the MP should analyse and determine the best course for the majority of his constituents. Laugh?

Austerity has been a scam; designed to reduce the incomes of workers and increase the amount of the economic capital that can be stolen from the people of this county. It continues apace.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

I would distrust a politician whose first loyalty was not to his constituency then region then country. This is not for a second saying he should vote the way his constituents vote or want. Armed with (god help us) wisdom derived from experience and expertise - the MP should analyse and determine the best course for the majority of his constituents. Laugh?

Austerity has been a scam; designed to reduce the incomes of workers and increase the amount of the economic capital that can be stolen from the people of this county. It continues apace.

You must mistrust the vast majority of politicians then I guess? They toe the party line first and foremost - evidenced by the number of Tories who were consulting their constituency party chairs over the weekend before deciding whether or not to plunge the 1922 dagger into Mays back.

Agree on austerity though - complete and utter scam,continuing apace as you say and the rich continue to get richer....and not just in this country.

Fun fact - The worlds billionaires (all 2158 of them) have added 20% to their collective fortunes ...SINCE 2017!!

$1.4 Trillion added
In one year
The equivalent of the GDP of Spain or Australia
2158 people . . More people live in Yarnton!

Let that sink in for a minute.

 

[Essexyellows]

Austerity is just re-balancing the books, from a UK perspective it usually happens after Labour max out the countries credit card & the Tories pay the bill down.
As an NHS employee I have had the thick end of austerity but found plenty of ways to "improve my lot" by reducing spend on unnecessary things.
Our Trust is looking at getting £367 million from central government to re-model our services so the "tap" is gradually being turned on. That money will flow into the economy and show an investment return to the local taxpayers.
If you are already rich then it is likely you will get richer without doing very much!

 

[Sharp Edges]

I distrust the majority of politicians, not sure if that says more about politicians or me.

I have now heard several labour MP's say "my constituents didnt vote to make themselves poorer". Well thats true, its also true they didnt vote to make themselves richer because there wasnt a question about wealth. There was a question where in many cases their constituents voted against their wishes. These MP's have chosen to represent their personal wishes, not that of their voting public.
Should they be representing their constituents wishes? The constituents didnt vote for the MP.

 

[cassox]

Austerity is just re-balancing the books, from a UK perspective it usually happens after Labour max out the countries credit card & the Tories pay the bill down.
As an NHS employee I have had the thick end of austerity but found plenty of ways to "improve my lot" by reducing spend on unnecessary things.
Our Trust is looking at getting £367 million from central government to re-model our services so the "tap" is gradually being turned on. That money will flow into the economy and show an investment return to the local taxpayers.
If you are already rich then it is likely you will get richer without doing very much!

So they were telling the truth after all

 

[Marked Ox]

Austerity is just re-balancing the books, from a UK perspective it usually happens after Labour max out the countries credit card & the Tories pay the bill down.
As an NHS employee I have had the thick end of austerity but found plenty of ways to "improve my lot" by reducing spend on unnecessary things.
Our Trust is looking at getting £367 million from central government to re-model our services so the "tap" is gradually being turned on. That money will flow into the economy and show an investment return to the local taxpayers.
If you are already rich then it is likely you will get richer without doing very much!

That top line isn't true as evidenced by the following:

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/...-created-two-thirds-of-the-uks-national-debt/

Labour in real terms borrow less then the Tories, repay more national debt on average and more often.

 

[Gary Baldi]

Seriously worried about this now. Listening to Nicky Campbell's show on Radio 5 Live. Lots of intelligent people being interviewed, and able to articulate their points (even if I don't agree with all of them).

Yet, when it comes to a 'People's Vote' most seem to think it will be another 'leave or remain' choice. Several have said (to the effect of) 'but we've had one vote, we don't need another'.

They don't seem to realise that a People's Vote will be about the terms of leaving, not whether we should leave or not.

Conclusion? I refer to my post above. Unless there is a very smart campaign to make the voting choices - and their consequences - clear to Joe Public in advance of a vote, the result will be based on confusion and misunderstanding.

That has been my concern. Other than having a vote, there is no detail or thought about what we can vote on and when it can occur based on the current legislative timelines that may be sought to be overturned. My perception of the people's vote is it is 18 months too late and rather doomed to fail.

 

[Essexyellows]

The referendum on leaving has already happened and we leave March 2019.

Of course the EU doesn`t want anyone to leave easily or the whole Ponzi scheme collapses.

Hence we will remain "attached" by some umbilical cord to the leech for years....or long enough to make us suffer, whilst we negotiate terms.

Then we have another referendum and get the "right" result.

 

[Peterdev]

Mark Carney is the prophesy of doom....inflation 25% and unemployment accelerating. I thought he suggested this a couple of years. Sounds just a little wide of the mark....although he is pro EU

 

[Gary Baldi]

Mark Carney is the prophesy of doom....inflation 25% and unemployment accelerating. I thought he suggested this a couple of years. Sounds just a little wide of the mark....although he is pro EU

I did see some journalists commenting that after his last advice of the apocalypse for just voting out, a lot of people would ignore what he is saying now. Project Fear 3.0 was the phrase used.

What would be fair to say is, we don't know what will happen, and after last time, we found that our economy is more resilient that we thought it would be, but it is highly likely we'll see a stagnation in growth, higher inflation etc etc.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I'm sorry, but just parroting 'Project Fear' every time anyone says there might be some negative effects when we leave is not adding anything useful to the discussion (not aimed at you GB, at those in the public eye).

We are leaving a trading organisation and not joining another one. We do twice the amount of business with the countries in that organisation as we do with anyone else (the US). Anyone who thinks that signing a couple of trade deals with (tiny by comparison) growing economies who are distant geographically will make up the shortfall is lining in cloud cuckoo land.

Mark Carney was NOT forecasting what will happen. His job is to stress test the UK banking system by seeing if it could withstand a range of POSSIBLE future scenarios. All the way from the best possible set of circumstances to the worst. To berate him for doing exactly that is simply political posturing of the worst kind - if he didn't do it, he would be negligent.

 

[Gary Baldi]

The issue with "Project Fear" is they effectively cried wolf before (Scotland, 2015 election, Brexit), so depending on where you sit, Carney has little credibility left because the worst case scenario didn't happen. Especially when the BoE and OBR have really struggled to get any sort of projections right in the past few years.

With an arch Remain Chancellor (and a Remain Bureaucracy), you can look, and depending on your point of view, say the PoV is not entirely unbiased. I think Carney is an efficient leader as was proved in his time in Canada, but his projections or whatever haven't really been the greatest.

Essentially we are left wishing on a star.

 

[Gary Baldi]

An interesting take on Carney's postulation. Via a Carney

https://twitter.com/x/status/1067934665284222976

With original thread

https://twitter.com/x/status/1067854650471313408

 

[cassox]

OUT....NO DEAL..........................

 

[pooshooter]

And Cameron wants to return to front line politics. He is so thick skinned he can't see how much he is hated!

 

[Marked Ox]

And Cameron wants to return to front line politics. He is so thick skinned he can't see how much he is hated!

Him and Blair in partnership to save the day.

 

[Yellow River]

Seems to me if Parliament is sovereign (which it should be) then national referendums are a complete waste of time, effort and money.

Particularly if you have a remain PM, a remain Chancellor, and 75%? (guess on my part) of MPs who voted remain.

Remember “This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide”

How do square that circle?

And yes the arrogance and sense of entitlement from Cameron is astounding, but not surprising.

 

[pooshooter]

Him and Blair in partnership to save the day.

Blair is another thick skinned twatofthehighestorder