National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

  • Deal

    Votes: 51 29.1%
  • No Deal

    Votes: 77 44.0%
  • Call in the Donald

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Call in Noel Edmonds

    Votes: 8 4.6%
  • I don't care anymore

    Votes: 37 21.1%

  • Total voters
    175
It feels like the waning days of this parliament doesn't it? People shouting at each other, staring at their navels, barely conscious that a large amount of people are ready to move on and accept this deal as it is realistically as good as it will get. It's not perfect, it's not as close to the EU as some Remainers want, but it's not the workers rights catastrophe that it's made about to be.

For the love of god, let's move on and move onto our future, rather the Remainers trying to desperately rewrite the past and frustrate the now because they still ,rather arrogantly, cannot accept the referendum. It's all there for our taking if we want it. Let's take it.

And as a Leaver, this will never ever be over until we leave. So frustrating the process until we get bored won't happen. We're not stupid and quite realistic.
 
Letwin amendment passes by a small margin, can we have a revote please so that the MPs who didn't know what they were voting for can have another go :D ? ;)
 
the hunt will be on tonight, for a fat blonde man with smouldering underwear , laying in a ditch, somewhere

or perhaps rather being found 'dead in a ditch' ( than delaying brexit) was yet another of Bozo's porkies?
 
That's a little unfair. The whole point of fullfact.org is to unpick and analyse others' claims to test them. I found this useful.
I've met one of those behind full fact and they test claims against factual evidence produced by Office of National Statistics for example or look at a broader picture of facts and figures when there is a narrow focus by politicians or opinion makers.
 
Letwin amendment passes by a small margin, can we have a revote please so that the MPs who didn't know what they were voting for can have another go :D ? ;)
Perhaps the Scottish can have another referendum vote as they didn’t know what they were doing.
without those pesky Scottish MPs like Blackford and Sturgeon we could’ve been out by now
 
The video of JRM definitely looks much less sinister than the photos (almost sounds as if someone is shouting “we love you”).

Definitely no worse than the self proclaimed ‘yellow vests’ who were abusing pro remain MPs outside parliament.

I don’t like JRM and I don’t believe his wish for Brexit is anything other than for his own gain, nor do I think his son (dressed almost identically which I find a bit weird) being there was anything more than an attempt to whip up more ‘us versus them’.

That being said the gradual shift in society to a place where there is black/white, right/wrong, us/them is wearing more thin than Brexit itself. Leave him walk out of parliament unobstructed and let him get on with the rest of his weekend with his family. Ultimately (as is normally the way) things have a habit of balancing themselves out and true colours are shown.
 
The video of JRM definitely looks much less sinister than the photos (almost sounds as if someone is shouting “we love you”).

Definitely no worse than the self proclaimed ‘yellow vests’ who were abusing pro remain MPs outside parliament.

I don’t like JRM and I don’t believe his wish for Brexit is anything other than for his own gain, nor do I think his son (dressed almost identically which I find a bit weird) being there was anything more than an attempt to whip up more ‘us versus them’.

That being said the gradual shift in society to a place where there is black/white, right/wrong, us/them is wearing more thin than Brexit itself. Leave him walk out of parliament unobstructed and let him get on with the rest of his weekend with his family. Ultimately (as is normally the way) things have a habit of balancing themselves out and true colours are shown.
There are other videos too, but when JRM had his son with him; I can appreciate how a child would find that very intimidating to be in, even if it can be seen as polite from an adults POV. There are videos of Abbott, Leadsom and Gove - and the police presence for each tones down some of the rhetoric - but is this really what we have become because Parliament is still gilding the Brexit lily?

Today feels like the height of Remainer hubristic arrogance because people like me ruined their lives by voting to leave, and I am concerned it will justify the nut job Brexiteers to turn it up a notch. We don't want that do we?
 
There are other videos too, but when JRM had his son with him; I can appreciate how a child would find that very intimidating to be in, even if it can be seen as polite from an adults POV. There are videos of Abbott, Leadsom and Gove - and the police presence for each tones down some of the rhetoric - but is this really what we have become because Parliament is still gilding the Brexit lily?

Today feels like the height of Remainer hubristic arrogance because people like me ruined their lives by voting to leave, and I am concerned it will justify the nut job Brexiteers to turn it up a notch. We don't want that do we?

I understand what you’re saying but I don’t really see this as the height of anything in particular. I think both sides have displayed this sort of rhetoric for a long time. I certainly don’t see it being as bad as death threats being levelled at someone (again I know this happens on both sides).

To be honest I do question at what point JRM thought it was a good idea to walk outside parliament in front of 1000s of pro remain supporters with his son. I’d also question any pro remain supporter if they were to do the same at a Brexit UK/Leave Means Leave protest march.

I guess I’m a little cynical as to how the whole situation occurred. Not that it condones any sort of abuse if levelled at the young lad.
 
You can have whatever Brexit you like, it’s never stopping the tribal us vs them mentality that has taken over the western world in recent years. That’s the norm and is here to stay.
 
Letwin amendment passes by a small margin, can we have a revote please so that the MPs who didn't know what they were voting for can have another go :D ? ;)

My family had a vote on whether we should move to Australia. I said ‘it will be brilliant, we’ll have a massive house, we’ll all get brilliant jobs and the town we live in will be lovely’ so we voted to move there, 5-4 in favour. We’ve now had a chance to go over there and check out the actual house we’d be buying, and see the town we’d be living in - wouldn’t it make sense to have another vote before we make the massive decision to up sticks and move - especially now we have much more information?

No-one in the leave campaign three years ago described anything like Boris’ deal, or said we may have to crash out without a deal, so a large percentage of people voted for a Brexit which simply cannot happen. To deny everyone another chance to vote now we have much, much more information on what we’re voting for is just being afraid that people won’t vote for Brexit now they see what it actually entails and you can’t make up fantasy scenarios like ‘it will be easy! We will save £350m just like that!’
 
My family had a vote on whether we should move to Australia. I said ‘it will be brilliant, we’ll have a massive house, we’ll all get brilliant jobs and the town we live in will be lovely’ so we voted to move there, 5-4 in favour. We’ve now had a chance to go over there and check out the actual house we’d be buying, and see the town we’d be living in - wouldn’t it make sense to have another vote before we make the massive decision to up sticks and move - especially now we have much more information?

No-one in the leave campaign three years ago described anything like Boris’ deal, or said we may have to crash out without a deal, so a large percentage of people voted for a Brexit which simply cannot happen. To deny everyone another chance to vote now we have much, much more information on what we’re voting for is just being afraid that people won’t vote for Brexit now they see what it actually entails and you can’t make up fantasy scenarios like ‘it will be easy! We will save £350m just like that!’

I’ve always said that the first vote should have been about whether to open discussions with the EU to then put the final deal to the vote.

It would certainly have removed a lot of this wasted time and effort with legislation amendments etc as parliament try to navigate through this mess.

EDIT : I do know someone who made the decision to move to Australia without actually doing a visit! It didn’t work out well.
 
My family had a vote on whether we should move to Australia. I said ‘it will be brilliant, we’ll have a massive house, we’ll all get brilliant jobs and the town we live in will be lovely’ so we voted to move there, 5-4 in favour. We’ve now had a chance to go over there and check out the actual house we’d be buying, and see the town we’d be living in - wouldn’t it make sense to have another vote before we make the massive decision to up sticks and move - especially now we have much more information?

No-one in the leave campaign three years ago described anything like Boris’ deal, or said we may have to crash out without a deal, so a large percentage of people voted for a Brexit which simply cannot happen. To deny everyone another chance to vote now we have much, much more information on what we’re voting for is just being afraid that people won’t vote for Brexit now they see what it actually entails and you can’t make up fantasy scenarios like ‘it will be easy! We will save £350m just like that!’
I’ve tried to use this sort of analogy a hundred times - you’re wasting your time. The one I use is more centred around no deal, which is that you agree to sell your house and move out by a certain date, fail to actually secure anywhere to move to before it, and then just turf yourself and the family out onto the pavement regardless, with a load of suitcases and boxes filled with belongings that have nowhere to go. You’d never do it - you’d find somewhere to go even if only temporarily or you’d change the date until you could safely go elsewhere. Nobody, no matter what they say, would make themselves homeless out of principle. Nobody. It’s laughable that anybody would either claim that they would, or that they don’t think think the scenarios are comparable. In fact, this is far worse than the picture I painted - I used one single family in my analogy, the reality is that it’s tens of millions of people and the world’s fifth largest economy being told it’s fine to simply pick up the cases and start walking. It’s utterly terrifying how many people are prioritising the fact that they voted for it and don’t want to lose it over just being sensible and accepting it has to be done safely.

Which is essentially the problem - nobody is actually being logical at all anymore, it’s just about ‘winning’ and anyone who feels they are is terrified to let it slip regardless of the consequences. They would rather ‘win’ and suffer for years, probably decades, than wait a minute longer and risk ‘losing’. I am happy to move houses - if people want to move house, that’s fine. I might rather not but it isn’t the end of the world, and if most people want to move, cool. All I and a heck of a lot of people ask is that we know the house we are going to, we get to check that it’s safe, what the area is like, if we will be able to get a job etc, and if it meets these very basic and simple requirements, let’s go. If that were something people had ever shown an interest in doing we would have probably been out by now, and been a lot more peaceful for it. But ever since the vote it’s been absolute warfare from all sides, stoked up by any and every camp going, when it was actually parliament’s duty to come together and start working out a cross-party consensus. Instead we just got revolting behaviour from MPs on both sides, be it leave or remain, and lots of backstabbing and secretive deals that locked people out and stopped them having any say or any basic feeling of involvement that could’ve led to something that allowed progress. It all went wrong the moment May turned up and started lying about being a ‘bloody difficult woman’ to appease her party, while thinking she could conduct everything in private and cut everybody out. Any new PM had to be one who would come in and go “Look, we’ve got to leave, but we won’t be going anywhere unless this place agrees, so let’s put the colour of our rosettes to one side and try to figure this out”. It wouldn’t have been quick or easy, but it doesn’t look like it’s gone well as it is on that front, does it?

I hold out absolutely zero hope on anything that isn’t fiercely damaging occurring now, just as I hold out no hope that the aftermath won’t be decades of fighting and feuding as nobody takes responsibility for it and nobody admits it was actually a mistake either. This is never going away until the day every one of us dies.
 
I’ve tried to use this sort of analogy a hundred times - you’re wasting your time. The one I use is more centred around no deal, which is that you agree to sell your house and move out by a certain date, fail to actually secure anywhere to move to before it, and then just turf yourself and the family out onto the pavement regardless, with a load of suitcases and boxes filled with belongings that have nowhere to go. You’d never do it - you’d find somewhere to go even if only temporarily or you’d change the date until you could safely go elsewhere. Nobody, no matter what they say, would make themselves homeless out of principle. Nobody. It’s laughable that anybody would either claim that they would, or that they don’t think think the scenarios are comparable. In fact, this is far worse than the picture I painted - I used one single family in my analogy, the reality is that it’s tens of millions of people and the world’s fifth largest economy being told it’s fine to simply pick up the cases and start walking. It’s utterly terrifying how many people are prioritising the fact that they voted for it and don’t want to lose it over just being sensible and accepting it has to be done safely.

Which is essentially the problem - nobody is actually being logical at all anymore, it’s just about ‘winning’ and anyone who feels they are is terrified to let it slip regardless of the consequences. They would rather ‘win’ and suffer for years, probably decades, than wait a minute longer and risk ‘losing’. I am happy to move houses - if people want to move house, that’s fine. I might rather not but it isn’t the end of the world, and if most people want to move, cool. All I and a heck of a lot of people ask is that we know the house we are going to, we get to check that it’s safe, what the area is like, if we will be able to get a job etc, and if it meets these very basic and simple requirements, let’s go. If that were something people had ever shown an interest in doing we would have probably been out by now, and been a lot more peaceful for it. But ever since the vote it’s been absolute warfare from all sides, stoked up by any and every camp going, when it was actually parliament’s duty to come together and start working out a cross-party consensus. Instead we just got revolting behaviour from MPs on both sides, be it leave or remain, and lots of backstabbing and secretive deals that locked people out and stopped them having any say or any basic feeling of involvement that could’ve led to something that allowed progress. It all went wrong the moment May turned up and started lying about being a ‘bloody difficult woman’ to appease her party, while thinking she could conduct everything in private and cut everybody out. Any new PM had to be one who would come in and go “Look, we’ve got to leave, but we won’t be going anywhere unless this place agrees, so let’s put the colour of our rosettes to one side and try to figure this out”. It wouldn’t have been quick or easy, but it doesn’t look like it’s gone well as it is on that front, does it?

I hold out absolutely zero hope on anything that isn’t fiercely damaging occurring now, just as I hold out no hope that the aftermath won’t be decades of fighting and feuding as nobody takes responsibility for it and nobody admits it was actually a mistake either. This is never going away until the day every one of us dies.
good post ^^ @RyanioBirdio ..... a well put overview
 
Back
Top Bottom