National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

[Sheik djibouti]

I guess that’s what John Mills was referring to on the Channel 4 News last night when he said there’d be “a few bumps in the road”.

Love the bit where Anand Menon said it won't be armegeddon on the 1st day if we leave with No Deal on 31/10 because 1st November is a Public Holiday in France and lorries aren't allowed on the autoroutes on public holidays

 

[tonyw]

After a couple of weeks of getting pissed off by BoJo, it's now Jo Swinson and the Labour front benchers that are pissing me off by talking about voting against an October election.

I mean we don't have a functional government, parliament is currently completely deadlocked. What do they want? The country to bumble along with **** all being done until 2022?

The argument up to this point - which I'm completely onboard with - is that the British people didn't vote for a No Deal Brexit in 2016. For example, I certainly don't remember any discussions about the EU shutting the Irish border, although I remember plenty of statements that 'nothing would change on the Irish border, don't be silly'. The Brexit that was sold at the time of the referendum is very different to the one that is facing the country now.

So now the PM is saying 'Fine. We'll take this back to the people - ask them to select a government based in part upon their Brexit positions, now with a much better understanding of what a No Deal Brexit actually means'. The right approach. And the opposition are threatening to say No??!?

I mean WTF - if that is indeed how it goes down, then the Lib Dems and Labour are subverting democracy to every bit the same extent that BoJo did last week in trying to shut down parliament and the debate.

Just when I think politicians couldn't disappoint me any more.......

 

[carefreeoufc]

After a couple of weeks of getting pissed off by BoJo, it's now Jo Swinson and the Labour front benchers that are pissing me off by talking about voting against an October election.

I mean we don't have a functional government, parliament is currently completely deadlocked. What do they want? The country to bumble along with **** all being done until 2022?

The argument up to this point - which I'm completely onboard with - is that the British people didn't vote for a No Deal Brexit in 2016. For example, I certainly don't remember any discussions about the EU shutting the Irish border, although I remember plenty of statements that 'nothing would change on the Irish border, don't be silly'. The Brexit that was sold at the time of the referendum is very different to the one that is facing the country now.

So now the PM is saying 'Fine. We'll take this back to the people - ask them to select a government based in part upon their Brexit positions, now with a much better understanding of what a No Deal Brexit actually means'. The right approach. And the opposition are threatening to say No??!?

I mean WTF - if that is indeed how it goes down, then the Lib Dems and Labour are subverting democracy to every bit the same extent that BoJo did last week in trying to shut down parliament and the debate.

Just when I think politicians couldn't disappoint me any more.......

I agree to some extent but I would imagine they’re concerned that an election pre 31/10 would see a non aggression pact enacted and potentially either a completely pro no deal Conservative Party or a coalition with the Brexit Party.

The ‘remain vote’ is still split too much between the four parties. I’ve seen absolutely no change of heart for anyone that I know that voted Brexit regardless of the potential impact of a no deal. It’s pretty obvious on here.

If there’s an election prior to the 31st I’d imagine the Conservative and Brexit Parties would come out on top and we’ll be out of the EU on the 31st with No Deal and Farage, Cummings Mogg et al laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Navegante]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1169016852649000968

If (and it is always a big if) Twitter is to believed then Dominic Cummings had a bit of a meltdown last night. There are other Tweets saying similar things as well but separate incidents. Johnson's Puppet Master seems unhappy.

It's all part of the illusion. The guy is like a chess grandmaster: always several moves ahead, setting up traps for his opponent at every turn. He's obsessed by strategic theories having spent time living in Russia.

Then again, he could simply be stone-cold barking.

 

[Sharp Edges]

It is based on experience and genuine understanding.

I could say the same about Owen Jones article, except there are actually some genuine facts in there.

Going forward we have a bunch of MP's that have stopped no deal because they dont believe Borris can get anything new from the EU and dont want no deal.
They have already rejected Mays deal three times.
WTF do they expect to change in the next three months if the EU agree to an extension given they have just removed our only bargaining tool. Its okay to say Borris cant get anything, what do they think they are going to get with a weaker hand?
Corbyn has been calling for an election for months (in the knowledge there wont be one), he will soon bottle this opportunity because even he will work out he will get wiped out.
I said months ago we wont leave.....

 

[Marked Ox]

I could say the same about Owen Jones article, except there are actually some genuine facts in there.

Going forward we have a bunch of MP's that have stopped no deal because they dont believe Borris can get anything new from the EU and dont want no deal.
They have already rejected Mays deal three times.
WTF do they expect to change in the next three months if the EU agree to an extension given they have just removed our only bargaining tool. Its okay to say Borris cant get anything, what do they think they are going to get with a weaker hand?
Corbyn has been calling for an election for months (in the knowledge there wont be one), he will soon bottle this opportunity because even he will work out he will get wiped out.
I said months ago we wont leave.....

You mean Owen Jones has worked for the Uk Govt in a role in the EU?

You assume Johnson is genuinely trying to negotiate at this point which IMO he isn't based on his and his Govt's (well his Puppet Master Cumming's actions mainly) actions. And the Brexiteers have rejected May's deal as well and they may have got it through if they'd voted for it and we'd have been out of the EU.

Labour and Corbyn are unlikely to vote for an election before 31st Oct because Johnson isn't trustworthy as he has demonstrated (look at the dates around proroguing in the Scottish legal case and the public claims by the Govt) and he could change the date were an election to fall before the 31st.

 

[Essexyellows]

After a couple of weeks of getting pissed off by BoJo, it's now Jo Swinson and the Labour front benchers that are pissing me off by talking about voting against an October election.

I mean we don't have a functional government, parliament is currently completely deadlocked. What do they want? The country to bumble along with **** all being done until 2022?

The argument up to this point - which I'm completely onboard with - is that the British people didn't vote for a No Deal Brexit in 2016. For example, I certainly don't remember any discussions about the EU shutting the Irish border, although I remember plenty of statements that 'nothing would change on the Irish border, don't be silly'. The Brexit that was sold at the time of the referendum is very different to the one that is facing the country now.

So now the PM is saying 'Fine. We'll take this back to the people - ask them to select a government based in part upon their Brexit positions, now with a much better understanding of what a No Deal Brexit actually means'. The right approach. And the opposition are threatening to say No??!?

I mean WTF - if that is indeed how it goes down, then the Lib Dems and Labour are subverting democracy to every bit the same extent that BoJo did last week in trying to shut down parliament and the debate.

Just when I think politicians couldn't disappoint me any more.......

That is correct. They voted to "Leave the European Union".

Now, after 3 years of fudging about, we are no closer to that, except for the saving grace of "No Deal" on the 31st October.

Crack on, get it done and let the professionals in business sort out the "bumps in the road".

Simplistic solution to the Irish backstop is to say we haven`t got a problem with an open border and let the EU "build the wall".

There you go, the whole caboodle sorted out in a tea break! ?

 

[Sharp Edges]

You mean Owen Jones has worked for the Uk Govt in a role in the EU?

You assume Johnson is genuinely trying to negotiate at this point which IMO he isn't based on his and his Govt's (well his Puppet Master Cumming's actions mainly) actions. And the Brexiteers have rejected May's deal as well and they may have got it through if they'd voted for it and we'd have been out of the EU.

Labour and Corbyn are unlikely to vote for an election before 31st Oct because Johnson isn't trustworthy as he has demonstrated (look at the dates around proroguing in the Scottish legal case and the public claims by the Govt) and he could change the date were an election to fall before the 31st.

Did I say he had? Still facts included.

Depends who you want to believe, its obvious who you want to believe.

Haha, because he will get wiped out.

So come on oracle, show us the way forward, the floor is yours.

 

[PottersRightBoot]

What a chlorinated chicken Corbyn is.
Got to hand it to Boris, the momentum mob is at the Downing Street gates and he’s still delivering the punchlines.
Funnily enough Jimmy Crankie is desperate for an election, no idea why.

 

[tonyw]

I agree to some extent but I would imagine they’re concerned that an election pre 31/10 would see a non aggression pact enacted and potentially either a completely pro no deal Conservative Party or a coalition with the Brexit Party.

The ‘remain vote’ is still split too much between the four parties. I’ve seen absolutely no change of heart for anyone that I know that voted Brexit regardless of the potential impact of a no deal. It’s pretty obvious on here.

If there’s an election prior to the 31st I’d imagine the Conservative and Brexit Parties would come out on top and we’ll be out of the EU on the 31st with No Deal and Farage, Cummings Mogg et al laughing all the way to the bank.

And if that's the case - if the people of the UK elect a parliament that has a majority in favour of leaving the EU with No Deal - then so be it.

That's how a parliamentary democracy is supposed to operate - it's supposed to do two things; represent the will of the people and protect the fundamental rights of its citizens.
Well, if the people of the UK still vote in favour of a No Deal Brexit, now they can see much more clearly what this is likely to mean, then that needs to be respected.
And no fundamental rights are being lost here. It pisses me off that I would be losing the right to live and work in 27 countries, but neither the right to do that, nor the right to get European fruits and veg cheaply, nor even the right to walk into the Republic of Ireland without a border are fundamental, and worthy of parliament over-ruling the clearly stated will of the populus.

The Remain parties would now have six weeks to make their case - and it should be a pretty freakin' clear case to make.
And they also have six weeks to come up with a sensible non-aggression pact that doesn't split the Lib/Lab/SNP/Green vote in key constituencies that would let the Brexiteers in. They achieved it pretty well in Brecon & Radnorshire.

The political games need to be stopped now, and the vote needs to be had so we can see where the country stands.

 

[Navegante]

Across the benches in parliament, Boris mouths to Corbyn 'you are a big girl's blouse'. Seems he's lost not only his authority, but any semblance of self-respect.

It wasn't caught on camera but apparently Corbyn stood up with his arms spread out (pavement dancing style) and retorted "It's nice to know you're here! It's nice to know you're here! Now f**k off!" followed by a throat-slitting action and subsequently offering him outside.

I don't know how much more democracy can slump (been sayin' that a lot recently, mind)

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Are we still up for making our own laws and protecting our sovereignty? Because this is what it looks like. Just shouting and screaming and everybody wanting to beat everybody else, just to somehow be right, and worrying less about what they’re fighting for than they are figuring out how to feel like they’ve come out on top.

Was any of this worth it? We can never be better off now, and I don’t mean economics. Forget the money, forget the numbers - virtually every single person currently alive will be on one team or the other for the rest of their life. Every last person involved in this referendum, which is all of us, will carry it with them somehow until the day they take their final breath, and will be boastful, resentful, angry, bitter, fearful or anything else in between far more than they would have been had this never happened.

How could this EVER be worth it now?

 

[Mojofilter]

I've seen a lot of anger by people on social media saying that the blocking or no deal is a covert remain move and nothing more. I don't get why some people actually want no deal (which it seems the predictions are that we'd be at least temporarily really really buggered) rather than waiting until a deal happens. Even if we leave without a deal, we will clearly end up striking some sort of deal with the EU given it's on our doorstep and is a massive trading block, so why not just do it now??

 

[tonyw]

I have to assume that there's never been a Prime Minister as impotent as BoJo over the past two days.

He's first seen parliament pass a law over his head that directly contradicts his position on Brexit.
And he's then failed to call a General Election on the date he wants. Basically he's failed to dissolve his own government.

It would be funny, if it wasn't such a stark reminder of what a sad and pathetic state UK politics is in right now.

So what the hell happens next? We have a minority government that has no ability to get anything through parliament, can't realistically negotiate with the EU, and isn't even being allowed to fall on its sword. I guess we just wait until when? The EU gets tired of the whole charade and refuses to extend Article 50? Corbyn grows a pair?

Bunch of ****wits, the lot of 'em.

 

[Big Ronaldo]

If Corbyn is waiting for his popularity to rise before agreeing to a general election, We are in for a long wait.
This whole sorry saga of parliamentary politics has to be the most pathetic betrayal of democracy in the history of parliament.
They are all completely unfit to govern.
???

 

[Peterdev]

The whole lot is a shambles. Sacking 21 Tories simply reduces his authority further.
So much for leaving on October 31....don’t think he mentioned the year we were leaving though.

 

[Manorlounger]

The Remain parties would now have six weeks to make their case - and it should be a pretty freakin' clear case to make.
And they also have six weeks to come up with a sensible non-aggression pact that doesn't split the Lib/Lab/SNP/Green vote in key constituencies that would let the Brexiteers in. They achieved it pretty well in Brecon & Radnorshire.

The political games need to be stopped now, and the vote needs to be had so we can see where the country stands.

And as long as the vote is in favour of your opinion, then all is ok?

 

[m]

And as long as the vote is in favour of your opinion, then all is ok?

That's what I've been hearing for the last 3 years.

Anything else would be undemocratic I'm told.

 

[LowerSouth]

So will the House of Lords will now talk down the bill,running the clock down.
Government will collapse and Boris gets his election wish

 

[Peterdev]

We won’t leave now. Parliament and the EU will triumph over the will of the people.