National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

  • Deal

    Votes: 51 29.1%
  • No Deal

    Votes: 77 44.0%
  • Call in the Donald

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Call in Noel Edmonds

    Votes: 8 4.6%
  • I don't care anymore

    Votes: 37 21.1%

  • Total voters
    175
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For the hard of thinking.... (or those too lazy to do their homework and rely upon uninformed generalization)

Under the leadership of Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, or Nazi Party, grew into a mass movement and ruled Germany through totalitarian means from 1933 to 1945. Founded in 1919 as the German Workers’ Party, the group promoted German pride and anti-Semitism, and expressed dissatisfaction with the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, the 1919 peace settlement that ended World War I (1914-1918) and required Germany to make numerous concessions and reparations. Hitler joined the party the year it was founded and became its leader in 1921. In 1933, he became chancellor of Germany and his Nazi government soon assumed dictatorial powers. After Germany’s defeat in World War II (1939-45), the Nazi Party was outlawed and many of its top officials were convicted of war crimes related to the murder of some 6 million European Jews during the Nazis’ reign.
Nazi Party Origins
In 1919, army veteran Adolf Hitler, frustrated by Germany’s defeat in World War, which had left the nation economically depressed and politically unstable, joined a fledgling political organization called the German Workers’ Party. Founded earlier that same year by a small group of men including locksmith Anton Drexler (1884-1942) and journalist Karl Harrer (1890-1926), the party promoted German nationalism and anti-Semitism, and felt that the Treaty of Versailles, the peace settlement that ended the war, was extremely unjust to Germany by burdening it with reparations it could never pay. Hitler soon emerged as a charismatic public speaker and began attracting new members with speeches blaming Jews and Marxists for Germany’s problems and espousing extreme nationalism and the concept of an Aryan “master race.” In July 1921, he assumed leadership of the organization, which by then had been renamed the Nationalist Socialist German Workers’ (Nazi) Party.


Did you know? Sales of Hitler's political autobiography "Mein Kampf," sometimes referred to as the bible of the Nazi Party, made him a millionaire. From 1933 to 1945, free copies were given to every newlywed German couple. After World War II, the publication of "Mein Kampf" in Germany became illegal.
Through the 1920s, Hitler gave speech after speech in which he stated that unemployment, rampant inflation, hunger and economic stagnation in postwar Germany would continue until there was a total revolution in German life. Most problems could be solved, he explained, if communists and Jews were driven from the nation. His fiery speeches swelled the ranks of the Nazi Party, especially among young, economically disadvantaged Germans.
In 1923, Hitler and his followers staged the Beer Hall Putsch in Munich, a failed takeover of the government in Bavaria, a state in southern Germany. Hitler had hoped that the “putsch,” or coup d’etat, would spark a larger revolution against the national government. In the aftermath of the Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler was convicted of treason and sentenced to five years in prison, but spent less than a year behind bars (during which time he dictated the first volume of “Mein Kampf,” or “My Struggle,” his political autobiography). The publicity surrounding the Beer Hall Putsch and Hitler’s subsequent trial turned him into a national figure. After his release from prison, he set about rebuilding the Nazi Party and attempting to gain power through the election process.

Hitler and the Nazis Come to Power: 1933

In 1929, Germany entered a period of severe economic depression and widespread unemployment. The Nazis capitalized on the situation by criticizing the ruling government and began to win elections. In the July 1932 elections, they captured 230 out of 608 seats in the “Reichstag,” or German parliament. In January 1933, Hitler was appointed German chancellor and his Nazi government soon came to control every aspect of German life.
Under Nazi rule, all other political parties were banned. In 1933, the Nazis opened their first concentration camp, in Dachau, Germany, to house political prisoners. Dachau evolved into a death camp where countless thousands of Jews died from malnutrition, disease and overwork or were executed. In addition to Jews, the camp’s prisoners included members of other groups Hitler considered unfit for the new Germany, including artists, intellectuals, Gypsies, the physically and mentally handicapped and homosexuals.
Militant Foreign Policy: 1933-39
Once Hitler gained control of the government, he directed Nazi Germany’s foreign policy toward undoing the Treaty of Versailles and restoring Germany’s standing in the world. He railed against the treaty’s redrawn map of Europe and argued it denied Germany, Europe’s most populous state, “living space” for its growing population. Although the Treaty of Versailles was explicitly based on the principle of the self-determination of peoples, he pointed out that it had separated Germans from Germans by creating such new postwar states as Austria and Czechoslovakia, where many Germans lived.
From the mid- to late 1930s, Hitler undermined the postwar international order step by step. He withdrew Germany from the League of Nations in 1933, rebuilt German armed forces beyond what was permitted by the Treaty of Versailles, reoccupied the German Rhineland in 1936, annexed Austria in 1938 and invaded Czechoslovakia in 1939. When Nazi Germany moved toward Poland, Great Britain and France countered further aggression by guaranteeing Polish security. Nevertheless, Germany invaded Poland on September 1, 1939, and Great Britain and France declared war on Germany. Six years of Nazi Party foreign policy had ignited World War II.
Fight to Dominate Europe: 1939-45

After conquering Poland, Hitler focused on defeating Britain and France. As the war expanded, the Nazi Party formed alliances with Japan and Italy in the Tripartite Pact of 1940, and honored its 1939 Nazi-Soviet Nonaggression Pact with the Soviet Union until 1941, when Germany launched a massive blitzkrieg invasion of the Soviet Union. In the brutal fighting that followed, Nazi troops tried to realize the long-held goal of crushing the world’s major communist power. After the United States entered the war in 1941, Germany found itself fighting in North Africa, Italy, France, the Balkans and in a counterattacking Soviet Union. At the beginning of the war, Hitler and his Nazi Party were fighting to dominate Europe; five years later they were fighting to exist.

Systematic Murder of European Jews

When Hitler and the Nazis came to power in 1933, they instituted a series of measures aimed at persecuting Germany’s Jewish citizens. By late 1938, Jews were banned from most public places in Germany. During the war, the Nazis’ anti-Jewish campaigns increased in scale and ferocity. In the invasion and occupation of Poland, German troops shot thousands of Polish Jews, confined many to ghettoes where they starved to death and began sending others to death camps in various parts of Poland, where they were either killed immediately or forced into slave labor. In 1941, when Germany invaded the Soviet Union, Nazi death squads machine-gunned tens of thousands of Jews in the western regions of Soviet Russia.
In early 1942, at the Wannsee Conference near Berlin, the Nazi Party decided on the last phase of what it called the “Final Solution” of the “Jewish problem” and spelled out plans for the systematic murder of all European Jews. In 1942 and 1943, Jews in the western occupied countries including France and Belgium were deported by the thousands to the death camps mushrooming across Europe. In Poland, huge death camps such as Auschwitz began operating with ruthless efficiency. The murder of Jews in German-occupied lands stopped only in last months of the war, as the German armies were retreating toward Berlin. By the time Hitler committed suicide in April 1945, some 6 million Jews had died.
Denazification
After the war, the Allies occupied Germany, outlawed the Nazi Party and worked to purge its influence from every aspect of German life. The party’s swastika flag quickly became a symbol of evil in modern postwar culture. Although Hitler killed himself before he could be brought to justice, a number of Nazi officials were convicted of war crimes in the Nuremberg trials, which took place in Nuremberg, Germany, from 1945 to 1949.

Citation Information
Article Title
Nazi Party
Author
History.com Editors
Website Name
HISTORY
URL
https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/nazi-party
Access Date
March 24, 2019
Publisher
A&E Television Networks
Last Updated
September 14, 2018
Original Published Date
November 9, 2009
TAGSWORLD WAR II
BY
HISTORY.COM EDITORS
 
@Eaststandboy our little friend must be on borrowed time. I thought you were going to speak to him? If non football threads aren’t going to be moderated to remove abuse they should maybe just be discontinued and the site restricted to football.
 
The Trump campaign didn't conspire with Russia - a pretty damning indictment on what did not occur, despite many in the medias assurances that Trump was a Russian spy, etc, etc, etc.

It doesn't exonerate him from other issues in the slightest, but quite embarrassing nonetheless for some media outlets.
 
@Eaststandboy our little friend must be on borrowed time. I thought you were going to speak to him? If non football threads aren’t going to be moderated to remove abuse they should maybe just be discontinued and the site restricted to football.
As said before....there is a ignore button,USE IT if you can't stand the heat........this is a thread about Brexit,everybody has their point of view werthers....typical little remain Nazi......when the truth is aired tries to shut down the source.....oooooo its a football forum??? yes i agree but why do you say get rid of the political debate which some of us enjoy.........NO-ONE forces you to read this section so why dont you just stick to reading the football stuff???? jeeeeeeez:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
It means the benefits of EU membership have been covered on this thread, exactly as I said. Here you are to save you having to do any work yourself: How very kind of you Peter.


Being a member of the EU is not a balance sheet exercise. To name a few benefits I very easily found online:

1) It gives you freedom to live, work and retire anywhere in Europe. As a member of the EU, UK citizens benefit from freedom of movement across the continent. Every man and his dog can enter the UK after other EU countries have given them a passport...and most WILL.

2) It sustains millions of jobs. A report by the Centre for Economics and Business Research, released in October 2015, suggested 3.1 million British jobs were linked to the UK’s exports to the EU. In addition, many large manufacturers argue that the UK currently benefits from being a part of the EU’s single market and it’s free trade agreements, suggesting they directly sustain millions of British jobs. The EU also provides considerable subsidies to British farmers, helping to bolster agriculture and ensure job stability for the 476,000 directly involved in farming, and those working in sectors related to the industry.
We will still trade with the EU but on WTO rules like we do with the rest of the world. The EU hold us back if anything.
3) It means you're less likely to get ripped off. Consumer protection is a key benefit of the EU’s single market, and ensures members of the British public receive equal consumer rights when shopping anywhere in Europe. The EU’s consumer rights ensure transparency from sellers themselves, and the quality and safety of their products. A two-year guarantee on all products, and the introduction of a ceiling for roaming charges across member states, are just two examples of things the EU has done to improve the rights of its customers.
Oh please do me a favour,my credit card does all that,also paypal.
4) It offers greater protection from terrorists, paedophiles, people traffickers and cyber-crime. Another example of a lesser-known advantage of EU membership is the benefit of cross-country coordination and cooperation in the fight against crime. Last month, former director of public prosecutions Sir Keir Starmer told The Independent: “We rely very heavily on the EU criminal justice measures and when I say very heavily, I mean 24/7. I’m talking here about terrorism, people trafficking, cyber-crime, sexual exploitation, trafficking of children and paedophilia: they all go across the borders into Europe.” The ability for member states to share information and coordinate responses, sometimes simultaneously in several countries, is vital to the UK’s security.
Absolute TOSH.....there will be no difference in exchanging details of offenders,but we will be able to vet people coming into the country,at the moment ANYONE with a EU passport can enter without being challenged.

5) Our businesses depend on it. According to 71% of all members of the Confederation of British Influence (CBI), and 67 per cent of small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), the EU has had an overall positive impact on their business. The CBI estimates that the net benefit of EU membership is worth 4-5% of GDP to the UK, or £62bn-£78bn per year. In 2014, the ONS reported that the EU, which is the world’s biggest economy, accounted for 44.6 per cent of all UK exports of goods and services, and 53.2 per cent of the UK’s imports of goods and services. Meanwhile, the Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) shows the overall contribution to our economy from exports to the EU was £187 billion last year, and that it could rise by almost half again to £277 billion a year by 2030. It also claims access to European energy, transport and digital service markets, combined with new global trade deals, could add £58 billion to the UK economy every year by 2030, the equivalent to £1,000 per British citizen.
Trade will continue with the EU,do you really think they will not want to sell their Audis and BMWs to us??? when we leave we will trade on WTO rules like we and the EU does with other countries....we've wasted 3 years by the remoaners holding things up.

6) We have greater influence. Robin Niblett, Director of think-tank Chatham House, stated in a report published last year: “For a mid-sized country like the UK, which will never again be economically dominant either globally or regionally, and whose diplomatic and military resources are declining in relative terms, being a major player in a strong regional institution can offer a critical lever for international influence. In the UK’s case, this means committing to be a leading member of the world’s principal civilian power, the European Union. The largest, proudest European nation cannot hope to shape globalisation – or even retain marginal relevance - by itself. It is only together that we have the weight to influence the big picture.”
GREATER INFLUENCE?? ? after we've given up our sovreignty,and laws fishing rights etc etc..... RUBBISH!!

Indeed, former European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso argued in 2014: “The largest, proudest European nation cannot hope to shape globalisation – or even retain marginal relevance - by itself. It is only together that we have the weight to influence the big picture.”
I seem to remember another organisation trying that ummmmm........... USSR

Even US President Barack Obama briefly alluded to the importance of the UK’s role in Europe in an interview with the BBC last year, in which he stated: “[Having the UK in the European Union] gives us much greater confidence about the strength of the transatlantic union and is part of the cornerstone of institutions built after [the] second world war that has made the world safer and more prosperous.”
Obama??? sticking his unwanted nose in and STILL we voted LEAVE......Trump says something completely opposite.

There are lots more. We need to think more broadly about the EU.

No ones saying we will cut all ties to the EU and sail off into the sunset,that would be stupid.......i dont mind a deal but everyone knows Mays deal is really Junkers deal and is the worst deal EVER....That deal is the reason we have had 3 years of nonsense...we MUST leave with so called NO DEAL (WTO) and negotiate AFTER we have left, there is NO other way if we are to uphold the democratic referendum result.

We can pick this and that from the internet ....but democracy is at stake and that is worth more than deals .
 
Corrected. For the record, as much as I disagree with Brexit I would probably accept it if a coherent and intelligent agreement could be reached. Clearly, it cant.
Fair play to you saying you would accept it, but you must agree that we will not get a decent deal unless we leave first and negotiate after,we voted to leave on the 29th,we MUST leave then.....terms cannot be agreed until then. The EU are not gonna give us jack s**t.....why should they when they can see the discord created by remoaner MPs
 
Cass OX

"WE MUST leave on the 29th Of May"

the CBI and the TUC:

“Our country is facing a national emergency. Decisions of recent days have caused the risk of no deal to soar. Firms and communities across the UK are not ready for this outcome. The shock to our economy would be felt by generations to come.”

Representing millions of workers and tens of thousands of businesses between them, the employers’ group and trades union umbrella body told May to take three urgent steps, starting with a commitment to avoid a no-deal Brexit.

They said securing an extension beyond 29 March had become essential with only days to go, although they warned that it also needed to be “long enough for a deal to be agreed”.
 
Parliament are however voting on a series of options this week including revoking article 50 and having another vote.
If parliament revokes Article 50;which they may well do, what happens next? I would suggest that a number of the brexiters may accept this option as it would be like a drawn game in chess, ie stalemate.
If and it’s a big if, another referendum may result in a similar outcome. If that happens we are no further forward.
All the time this has been going on, day to business has to some extent been frustrated or delayed.
The longer the whole scenario goes on the closer the EU elections become and also a general election here too. The likliehood is that the leaders will be replaced before 2021. If not we will have the oldest political,leaders since Victoria
 
Parliament are however voting on a series of options this week including revoking article 50 and having another vote.
If parliament revokes Article 50;which they may well do, what happens next? I would suggest that a number of the brexiters may accept this option as it would be like a drawn game in chess, ie stalemate.
If and it’s a big if, another referendum may result in a similar outcome. If that happens we are no further forward.
All the time this has been going on, day to business has to some extent been frustrated or delayed.
The longer the whole scenario goes on the closer the EU elections become and also a general election here too. The likliehood is that the leaders will be replaced before 2021. If not we will have the oldest political,leaders since Victoria

17.4 million people will be rather disenfranchised I would suggest.
It would be a brave politician that turns around and says "You got it wrong" to the people that elect them.
Or (by some miracle) an amended version of May`s deal gets through Parliament subject to the voting this week and we leave on the 22nd May.
And then factor in both sides can probably mount legal challenges whichever way it goes.

Should have left the day after the result and then negotiated, that may have had an impact on the result and the narrative.
 
I agree with what you say as a brexiter myself.
I see Richard Branson the £5bn ex pat is now saying revoke Article 50.
It’s all pointing towards a second referendum I think.
Parliament is out of touch with the electorate
 
17.4 million people will be rather disenfranchised I would suggest.
It would be a brave politician that turns around and says "You got it wrong" to the people that elect them.
Or (by some miracle) an amended version of May`s deal gets through Parliament subject to the voting this week and we leave on the 22nd May.
And then factor in both sides can probably mount legal challenges whichever way it goes.

Should have left the day after the result and then negotiated, that may have had an impact on the result and the narrative.
yes that would have worked.

The trouble is that the people advocating Brexit on this forum are both so ignorant and so incapable of formulating an argument it's like talking to 3 year olds. You might as well say "We should have discovered gold in Kidlington" it bears as much relationship to reality.
 
I agree with what you say as a brexiter myself.
I see Richard Branson the £5bn ex pat is now saying revoke Article 50.
It’s all pointing towards a second referendum I think.
Parliament is out of touch with the electorate
The problem with a 2nd referendum is clear. What do we vote on? Is it a final vote? When do we vote on it? Will there be other votes afterwards?

A 2nd vote is very complicated, no matte what some Remainers say.
 
The problem with a 2nd referendum is clear. What do we vote on? Is it a final vote? When do we vote on it? Will there be other votes afterwards?

A 2nd vote is very complicated, no matte what some Remainers say.

A 2 part question as discussed previously:

- Remain Vs Leave

If Leave wins: what does it look like:
eg. - WTO only/No Deal
May's Deal
EFTA etc

No ambiguity of what Leave looks like should it win as in the original referendum. Those for it can campaign on the specifics as well rather than sunny uplands etc.

Make it binding, as Parliament will have a clear idea of the "will of the people". If it is still leave then what specific form that will be will be already decided by the vote so they will just need to do the process then.

It is not as complicated as you keep trying to make out.
 
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Although I think we ought to remain, I do see that a referendum WILL be complex.

If remain was to win the first question, then that's simple enough. Socially divisive but fairly clear.
Presumably, anyone who voted remain would also be able to vote for their 'least worst' leave option - although I suspect some might find it hard to put a cross in any of those boxes.
If leave was to win the first question, then if there are multiple 'indicative' options (let's take your three as examples) then each might get roughly a third of the vote. So if the (just selecting one at random) May's Deal got 35% and the others 33% and 32%, would MPs be bound to vote that through on a quite small minority win? Of course, the more options you have the more the vote will be split.

I'm not convinced the result (if leave won) would make things much clearer as to *how* we are going to leave. Which of course was the problem in the first place!
 
17.4 million people will be rather disenfranchised I would suggest.
It would be a brave politician that turns around and says "You got it wrong" to the people that elect them.
Or (by some miracle) an amended version of May`s deal gets through Parliament subject to the voting this week and we leave on the 22nd May.
And then factor in both sides can probably mount legal challenges whichever way it goes.

Should have left the day after the result and then negotiated, that may have had an impact on the result and the narrative.
I would imagine over a million of them are dead by now.
 
A 2nd referendum would be incredibly divisive and damaging.

If it is forced upon the public then it should be a choice between leave on WTO terms or May’s deal. That would be the only way to respect the result of the original referendum.
 
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