National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

[Essexyellows]

It’s all fine , really. BMW closing for a month. Fine.

No fruit and veg- fine you don’t like avocados anyway

​

1 Comment



JAPANESE TECH FIRM Sony plans to shift its UK headquarters to the Netherlands as it fears the potential consequences of a no-deal Brexit.
The move will see the firm register its £3.3bn European business in Amsterdam, moving it from its current location of Weybridge in Surrey. According to documents seen by the Telegraph, the move could be completed as soon as 29 March 2019.
Sony said the merger was to "continue business as usual without disruption" and would not result in job losses.
The relocation sees Sony following in the footsteps of fellow Japanese outfit Panasonic, which also last year announced plans to move its European HQ to Amsterdam.
The firm said at the time that it planned to relocate in order to "pursue improved efficiency and cost competitiveness while having easy access to the different markets within Europe".

It’s all normal

Yes, actually it is rather normal....what may not happen in the future is............

"Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant/state aid.... surely illegal or immoral under EU regs?
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, brought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU.
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Name one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea."

 

[Marked Ox]

I'm not saying he did a great job, but you over estimate the control and latitude Davis had over the process and the guidance he had from the Maybot and Ollie Robbins (the guy who should be getting the criticism). A good example is the Chequers Plan and how Maybot isolated everyone from its details until the last minute.

You over estimate what he did do which was not even the basics. Davis did nothing including the very basics of business planning through failing to do basic and in-depth research on the implications of each option to the country/economy etc. And then he lied about what he had done, or rather what he hadn't done and tried to block MPs finding out.

That is nothing to do with May, that is all down to him and his incompetence.

 

[Marked Ox]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1087691731095699456

So for this Brexiteer, Parliamentary Sovereignty only counts when it is what he wants. Asking a foreign Govt to interfere in this way in our parliamentary affairs smacks of desperation and is very dubious.

 

[Yellow River]

Latest odds!

Phew ! No mention of Old Hooky.

Does mean we all have to go Vegan?

 

[tonyw]

The problem at the moment is uncertainty which business hates.
March 29th gets closer, and business needs to know what will happen.

Don't disagree with any of that.

But, to reiterate what I've already said on this thread, Britain hasn't planned properly for a No Deal Brexit so noone knows what'll happen in that scenario. Even for the most obvious, basic repercussions of a 'No Deal' Brexit - customs checks - it seems as if the conversation is only just getting started now. Noone could possibly predict what the delays will be, because we don't know what checks will be necessary, where they'll be necessary (Irish border, Irish sea, neither for the timebeing?), how many staff will be hired to facilitate them, what infrastructure will be set up to cope with the greater volume etc. etc. And we've only got two months to go!

The attitude seems to be that we'll go 'No Deal' Brexit, and then work things out on the fly. And it'll be great, because we're British. But personally I have zero faith in the current government to be able to do that (nor the current opposition). They've just not displayed anything like the level of competence.

So if I was running a business that relied in any way on UK-EU trade, I'd be really nervous right now. Are my parts/products going to be delayed at the border at all? And if so, for two hours, two days, two weeks? If I'm a financial services company, will I still be legally allowed to provide services to my European clients? Tough to run a business that way. And I think you'd be negligent to your shareholders if you were a business that could move operations from the UK elsewhere, and you didn't at least investigate those possibilities......

 

[Gary Baldi]

You over estimate what he did do which was not even the basics. Davis did nothing including the very basics of business planning through failing to do basic and in-depth research on the implications of each option to the country/economy etc. And then he lied about what he had done, or rather what he hadn't done and tried to block MPs finding out.

That is nothing to do with May, that is all down to him and his incompetence.

It is a lot to do with May. For example, Davis asked to plan for No Deal in January last year (among other worst case planning), to be done closely with the EU and was told not to do so by Maybot. Leaving the rather futile recent exercises to paper over the Grayling cracks. I grant he wasn't fantastic, but the Maybot is the root of any Brexit secretaries issues. How can you negotiate effectively when your boss keeps going over your head? Or be taken seriously?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1087691731095699456

So for this Brexiteer, Parliamentary Sovereignty only counts when it is what he wants. Asking a foreign Govt to interfere in this way in our parliamentary affairs smacks of desperation and is very dubious.

I take it you were ok with Saint Obama telling we, the people, that we'd basically get no trade deal from the US before the election? Or is that permissible?

 

[Marked Ox]

It is a lot to do with May. For example, Davis asked to plan for No Deal in January last year (among other worst case planning), to be done closely with the EU and was told not to do so by Maybot. Leaving the rather futile recent exercises to paper over the Grayling cracks. I grant he wasn't fantastic, but the Maybot is the root of any Brexit secretaries issues. How can you negotiate effectively when your boss keeps going over your head? Or be taken seriously?


I take it you were ok with Saint Obama telling we, the people, that we'd basically get no trade deal from the US before the election? Or is that permissible?

Davis didn't do the basics, what did he spend all that money on?

Classic "whataboutism" from you there. What exactly has Obama got to do with an elected MP of our Parliament trying to circumvent our Parliament, that he is a member of, via a foreign Govt?

In other circumstances that could be considered traitorous and at the least a betrayal of parliamentary sovereignty, something he argued for in the 2016 Referendum. You come across as condoning his actions.

 

[YellowTaxi]

It is a lot to do with May. For example, Davis asked to plan for No Deal in January last year (among other worst case planning), to be done closely with the EU and was told not to do so by Maybot. Leaving the rather futile recent exercises to paper over the Grayling cracks. I grant he wasn't fantastic, but the Maybot is the root of any Brexit secretaries issues. How can you negotiate effectively when your boss keeps going over your head? Or be taken seriously?


I take it you were ok with Saint Obama telling we, the people, that we'd basically get no trade deal from the US before the election? Or is that permissible?

Youre right that No-one takes Theresa May seriously. But no-one take David Davis seriously either. nor do they take Boris "f**k business' Johnson seriously, come to that. Who could take Jacob" move my hedge fund to Dublin" Rees Mogg seriously?. In fact no-one takes any of the Brexit gang seriously. They don't even take themselves seriously. You have no plans. You are like a two year old child who thinks that if he shuts his eyes no-one can see him,

 

[Gary Baldi]

Davis didn't do the basics, what did he spend all that money on?

Classic "whataboutism" from you there. What exactly has Obama got to do with an elected MP of our Parliament trying to circumvent our Parliament, that he is a member of, via a foreign Govt?

In other circumstances that could be considered traitorous and at the least a betrayal of parliamentary sovereignty, something he argued for in the 2016 Referendum. You come across as condoning his actions.

I dunno, I'm not a member of Govt. If you're that bothered, have a look. I have better things to do!

Obama was invited, by our Prime Minister, to comment about the perils of voting to leave, so it's very relevant indeed due to the stature of the US President in our society and coverage it got.

I'd rather no one did it because it's so short termist and feeds a certain narrative in that time. I can certainly understand why Poland would want to get involved with so many of their compatriots being a key part of our society. But yeah, I'd rather not have it. But, when we permitted other countries to get involved before the election, the cat is out of the bag now.

 

[Gary Baldi]

Youre right that No-one takes Theresa May seriously. But no-one take David Davis seriously either. nor do they take Boris "f**k business' Johnson seriously, come to that. Who could take Jacob" move my hedge fund to Dublin" Rees Mogg seriously?. In fact no-one takes any of the Brexit gang seriously. They don't even take themselves seriously. You have no plans. You are like a two year old child who thinks that if he shuts his eyes no-one can see him,

And the same for the Remain side! At least some of those people have an opinion and shockingly, trying to be flexible now. Still have no idea what Labour's real position is other than some useless Customs Union waffle or calls for GE that will never happen.

My plan is clear. Parliament voted to trigger Article 50, in that No Deal was part of that - it's too late now for MPs to try and back track. I would prefer not to leave with No Deal, but I see nothing on the Remain side that convinces me it will a) get a majority in Parliament and b) be done by the end of March. Some polling suggests us proles are getting more hardened on leaving with No Deal, regardless of what MPs want.

In fact, the complete lack of detail on the Remain side about the legal structure is incredibly annoying. We cannot just cancel Brexit and they are wasting the little time remaining releasing pointless sound bites. Especially when there is an assumption that the EU will just do what they want!

 

[Beckdale16Bicester]

And the same for the Remain side! At least some of those people have an opinion and shockingly, trying to be flexible now. Still have no idea what Labour's real position is other than some useless Customs Union waffle or calls for GE that will never happen.

My plan is clear. Parliament voted to trigger Article 50, in that No Deal was part of that - it's too late now for MPs to try and back track. I would prefer not to leave with No Deal, but I see nothing on the Remain side that convinces me it will a) get a majority in Parliament and b) be done by the end of March. Some polling suggests us proles are getting more hardened on leaving with No Deal, regardless of what MPs want.

In fact, the complete lack of detail on the Remain side about the legal structure is incredibly annoying. We cannot just cancel Brexit and they are wasting the little time remaining releasing pointless sound bites. Especially when there is an assumption that the EU will just do what they want![/QUOTE

And the same for the Remain side! At least some of those people have an opinion and shockingly, trying to be flexible now. Still have no idea what Labour's real position is other than some useless Customs Union waffle or calls for GE that will never happen.

My plan is clear. Parliament voted to trigger Article 50, in that No Deal was part of that - it's too late now for MPs to try and back track. I would prefer not to leave with No Deal, but I see nothing on the Remain side that convinces me it will a) get a majority in Parliament and b) be done by the end of March. Some polling suggests us proles are getting more hardened on leaving with No Deal, regardless of what MPs want.

In fact, the complete lack of detail on the Remain side about the legal structure is incredibly annoying. We cannot just cancel Brexit and they are wasting the little time remaining releasing pointless sound bites. Especially when there is an assumption that the EU will just do what they want!

Have you seen Yvette Cooper amendment.

 

[Marked Ox]

I dunno, I'm not a member of Govt. If you're that bothered, have a look. I have better things to do!

Obama was invited, by our Prime Minister, to comment about the perils of voting to leave, so it's very relevant indeed due to the stature of the US President in our society and coverage it got.

I'd rather no one did it because it's so short termist and feeds a certain narrative in that time. I can certainly understand why Poland would want to get involved with so many of their compatriots being a key part of our society. But yeah, I'd rather not have it. But, when we permitted other countries to get involved before the election, the cat is out of the bag now.

The Polish Govt thankfully told him to do one.

Obama was not a member of our Parliament and he commented on Brexit like a lot of foreign leaders (including Putin, Trudeau etc etc) so did you complain about them making comments?

This is fundamentally different to an MP actively asking a foreign Govt to veto a potential agreement to undermine his own Parliament. Can you genuinely not see they are different?

I get you are pro leave, but arguing that David Davis wasn't incompetent in his role as Brexit Secretary and comparing this MP to Obama is stretching reality a long way.

 

[Essexyellows]

Have you seen Yvette Cooper amendment.

An amendment to kick the can down the road like a petulant teenager in a strop when they have had 2+ years to pick it up & put it in the bin....... yep..seen that.

Barnier et al are going to have to get on board before their entire house of cards folds.... France, Italy & Greece and now contraction in the German economy..... things aren`t going to plan because the people can only be pushed so far.

 

[Sharp Edges]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=350078835588424

 

[YellowTaxi]

Brexit is a house of cards- built by charlatans. Could you Brexiteers explain to me how you were oppressed by the EU? Was it the generous duty free allowances when you came back from holidays? The clean beaches? The lack of passport controls? What are the tangible ways the EU made your life worse?

I'd just like to add if you're relying on Bernard Jenkin for your political analysis I hope you're still relying on Nick Merry for financial advice. And we have a number of extrmists active in this country. Some supported by members of this board. Jo Cox MP was murdered by a far right activist as was Makram Ali. Darren Osborne who attacked the Finsbury Park Mosque also had plans to kill jeremy Corbyn.

 

[Gary Baldi]

The Polish Govt thankfully told him to do one.

Obama was not a member of our Parliament and he commented on Brexit like a lot of foreign leaders (including Putin, Trudeau etc etc) so did you complain about them making comments?

This is fundamentally different to an MP actively asking a foreign Govt to veto a potential agreement to undermine his own Parliament. Can you genuinely not see they are different?

I get you are pro leave, but arguing that David Davis wasn't incompetent in his role as Brexit Secretary and comparing this MP to Obama is stretching reality a long way.

Yeah I did actually - but who listens to Trudeau anyway? And really, it's one of the same, and one can argue, the coverage Obama got before the vote vs this, it's a similar level of meddling - let's face it, no one gives two shitzits in general about what the Pole said and most people won't even know it was even said. But most people commented about Obama's intervention at the time because he telling us to vote Remain in very clear terms - pure meddling in our process.

I think Davis was not incompetent, but his boss both made his job hard (as Raab confirmed and no one wanted the job when he left) and being as such, she has rightly taken the heat. I don't get why you dislike Davis so much. Bit of an odd one! Your ire should be forced at Ollie Robbins, the real Brexit Secretary, and very much the man who did the negotiations.

 

[Gary Baldi]

Brexit is a house of cards- built by charlatans. Could you Brexiteers explain to me how you were oppressed by the EU? Was it the generous duty free allowances when you came back from holidays? The clean beaches? The lack of passport controls? What are the tangible ways the EU made your life worse?

I'd just like to add if you're relying on Bernard Jenkin for your political analysis I hope you're still relying on Nick Merry for financial advice. And we have a number of extrmists active in this country. Some supported by members of this board. Jo Cox MP was murdered by a far right activist as was Makram Ali. Darren Osborne who attacked the Finsbury Park Mosque also had plans to kill jeremy Corbyn.

Oppression... Talk about setting up anyone who responds!

My reasons for voting leave were: Systematically undemocratic, unaccountable, not value for money, limits trade with globe, protectionism, unrealistic immigration policy for such a large population bloc and importantly. Unwilling to change or reform.

If they had shown a desire to reform, my vote could have been different. We have so many issues over here of poverty and inequality, that it's my belief that as such, we can and should spend the money that goes to the EU to help those people (whoever they are and wherever they come from), rather than EU vanity projects in places like Slovenia or paying French farmers via CAP. I appreciated the loss of convenience we'd get in the short to medium term, but I genuinely believe that leaving the EU will be better for the UK in the long term. What we joined and what it is, are very different.

There are extremists on all sides and I condemn all equally and heartily. As a society, we don't need them or their views and idiots like Darren Osbourne are well, dangerous idiots. But both sides are as bad as each other and I'm sure everyone will agree on that.

 

[Essexyellows]

Brexit is a house of cards- built by charlatans. Could you Brexiteers explain to me how you were oppressed by the EU? Was it the generous duty free allowances when you came back from holidays? The clean beaches? The lack of passport controls? What are the tangible ways the EU made your life worse?

I will surmise you are too young to remember when we voted in 1975?
The question then was "Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (The Common Market)?" In those pre-internet days the dissemination of information was more tightly controlled. It was newspapers or 3 TV channels. It could also be argued that the question was loaded with the addition of (The Common Market). Most people understood the EEC to be a free trade agreement that allowed easier imports, exports and common standards.
40 years later things have changed markedly, the amount of money the EU redistributes, the freedom of travel, the excessive regulation and many more things have led the people of this country to reconsider the benefits and the size of their "voice" in matters as the EU expands state by state.
I will agree that there are many benefits but, a bit like the vote itself, the negatives outweigh the positives in the minds of the voters.
Am I worried about having to complete a landing card to go to an EU state in exchange for knowing who comes into the UK (and if they left!)? Nope.
Am I worried that my duty free allowance may reduce? Nope.
Am I worried that we might have a few months of inconvenience? Nope.
Do I believe the country can prosper outside of the EU? Yes.
Would I rather our laws, taxes and judiciary are run by our state system? Yes.
Do I think the EU bureaucracy & its system is a burden for all states? Yes (I work in public sector procurement where all the EU rules will just be adopted into UK law)

We aren`t all "bigoted,racist,old gammons" who voted to Leave.

 

[Leysboy]

Re Mainiacs = bad losers! End of!

 

[YellowTaxi]

I appreciate the reply, Essex.

I can see that the EU has developed and expanded from the original Common market, but I'm still not clear what the problems you have with it are, especailly as you acknowledge that the bureaucracy is a burden for all states, and will be adopted into UK law. i'm sure that working in public sector procurement that there are a lot of good reasons why some elements of bureaucracy are necessary to ensure standards and prevent corruption. When we trade with other countries we have to find a legal system to adjudicate disputes which are acceptable to both. That's the same whether it's China, Belgium or the US

So again I can't see what the specifics are that you object to- I can see the EU has a bureaucracy- but we need bureaucracy, it has a judiciary that can decide international disputes- and we need one of those too. I still can's see why many proponents of Brexit talk about the UK being a "vassal" of a group that we were a part of and contributed to shaping its laws and policy. One we leave, of course we'll stop doing that.