National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

  • Deal

    Votes: 51 29.1%
  • No Deal

    Votes: 77 44.0%
  • Call in the Donald

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Call in Noel Edmonds

    Votes: 8 4.6%
  • I don't care anymore

    Votes: 37 21.1%

  • Total voters
    175
Yep, we can ignore the "EU yoke"...so long as we're happy to forgo trade with EU countries. Which will put a massive hole in the economy. Remainers have been telling you this for two and a half years and you still think there's some magic solution that "they" need to find. You voted for a contradiction. You were lied to. There are no magic beans.

We will not "forgo trade with EU Countries" because business & £££`s will not allow it to happen.
We may get a period of adjustment but that is all, remember we are adopting all EU Regs & Statutes into UK law until they are reviewed or untangled so there is little reason that trade with the EU will not continue.
Its an adjustment to a relationship not the apocalypse many remainers are forecasting.
 
I don't think this is true. From what I read, it wasn't a founder (it was a major shareholder) and it's a different Bamford. Let's leave the conspiracies to the Brexiters.
Yes you are right. This was a different Bamford. So whilst the cronyism isn't as immediately apparent, it is still a really odd situation that warrants further investigation, particularly when the FT run articles like this one: https://www.ft.com/content/16e2d6e4-1271-11e9-a581-4ff78404524e Neither should we forget the fact that Ramsgate is going to struggle to be ready in time for Brexit, and Ostende have categorically said they will not be in a position to run the ferry service come 29th March, despite Mr Raincock's assertions in the above article.

Yet another example of Chris Grayling's incompetence and if we were in normal times, I think he would've been sacked a long time ago. And this is in itself another example of why the all pervasive issue of Breit is so damaging to the normal functioning of government. Incompetence and dereliction are simply swept under the carpet because the Govt are too pre-occupied and too weak to do anything about it. And it is us (some more than others) who suffer the consequences.
 
There must be some whataboutery irony in the outrage of seeing Godwin's Law being invoked on Owen Jones and Anna Soubry, when the abuse of Brexiteers and other Remainers has been worse and going on for months and months. And sadly, largely ignored until the generic "far right" get involved.

The difference here is they tried to block Anna Soubry getting into Parliament through low level physical intimidation. That has implications for democracy and a MP doing their job. She isn't the only woman targeted in this way.

I thought Owen James handled it well and made them look particularly stupid.
 
Why would anyone think a man who is fan of far right scumbag Stphen Yaxley lennon screaming at a black policeman "youre not British" is aFar right|" maybe he's just a thick bigot like ""Gary Baldi"
Thanks for proving my point!
The ringleader of the thugs outside Parliament is apparently one James Goddard, who has just been kicked off Facebook for extremism. His account posted "a torrent of anti-Islam and anti-immigrant abuse", including this pleasantry:
and then reposted this reply:

I don't think Godwin's Law applies when you're referring to self-identifying racists. But if you're happy to defend this sort of low-life that's your choice I suppose.

(Source)
I have no doubt there are far right idiots out there - it's cat nip for them and they lack the intelligence to say anything more insightful. It's the lazy presumption that all are automatically far right without checking, and the use of Godwins Law by both sides to denigrate the other. Why are they racist calling someone scum? Why has it been ok to use Godwins Law on the likes of Farage or Johnson, but now it's not for Soubry?

I can't help but feel the largely unchecked abuse of Breixteers and less prominent Remainers for the past 3 years has led to the abuse of Soubry. None of it is ok and I do not endorse the abuse of anyone - whatever their views. My point is, why has some mild chanting and comments got 50 MPs enraged, when they've let worse abuse go unchecked?
 
The difference here is they tried to block Anna Soubry getting into Parliament through low level physical intimidation. That has implications for democracy and a MP doing their job. She isn't the only woman targeted in this way.

I thought Owen James handled it well and made them look particularly stupid.
As I've just said, it was mild. Compared to Farage being surrounded by 80 people outside of a pub in Scotland calling him scum, it's still not on, but where was the outrage about mobs then? I've banged on about the abuse of MPs on all sides for over a year and how much I disagree with it, and only now MPs think it's a problem. Abuse of our politicians is not ok.
 
Thanks for proving my point!

I have no doubt there are far right idiots out there - it's cat nip for them and they lack the intelligence to say anything more insightful. It's the lazy presumption that all are automatically far right without checking, and the use of Godwins Law by both sides to denigrate the other. Why are they racist calling someone scum? Why has it been ok to use Godwins Law on the likes of Farage or Johnson, but now it's not for Soubry?

I can't help but feel the largely unchecked abuse of Breixteers and less prominent Remainers for the past 3 years has led to the abuse of Soubry. None of it is ok and I do not endorse the abuse of anyone - whatever their views. My point is, why has some mild chanting and comments got 50 MPs enraged, when they've let worse abuse go unchecked?

It wasn't just mild chanting, they surrounded Anna Soubry shouting abuse at her, right in her face, deliberately getting in her physical space and trying to block her going into Parliament. It was low level physical intimidation considering it was a load of blokes surrounding an individual woman.
 
Physical threats by far right of an MP at her place of work

How peculiar that Mr Baldi wants to miminise it.
 
Oh yeah the" inconsitency" of calling right wing people who shout at policemen "you're not even British" and tell them they're "fair game"- but aren't right wing at all
 
That a small group of extremist protesters is described as "reflecting the mood of the country" is stretching things to the extreme.
What ever happened to "sticks & stones.............." ?
 
That a small group of extremist protesters is described as "reflecting the mood of the country" is stretching things to the extreme.
What ever happened to "sticks & stones.............." ?
As I understand it, sticks and stones is now subject to a written agreement with the EU negotiated resolutely at the last minute following a flying visit by our resolute Prime Minister. And they said it couldn’t be done...
 
It wasn't just mild chanting, they surrounded Anna Soubry shouting abuse at her, right in her face, deliberately getting in her physical space and trying to block her going into Parliament. It was low level physical intimidation considering it was a load of blokes surrounding an individual woman.
It's mild in the context of:
Being forced to stay in a pub because of a mob of 80. Being repeatedly called scum (among other threats) by the mob and physically intimidated (Farage)
Being forced to employ personal security to go out for a meal. Being verbally abused when out for meal, with family abused (Farage)
Having property abused (Farage and Angela Eagle)
Being verbally abused at constituent office, home and family (inc kids) being verbally abused (Farage, Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Angela Eagle)

I don't necessarily condone the views of the politicians above, but clearly there has been an issue for quite some time, and for some it's become a permissible past time to pick on certain people just because.

None of it is right.
 
It's mild in the context of:
Being forced to stay in a pub because of a mob of 80. Being repeatedly called scum (among other threats) by the mob and physically intimidated (Farage)
Being forced to employ personal security to go out for a meal. Being verbally abused when out for meal, with family abused (Farage)
Having property abused (Farage and Angela Eagle)
Being verbally abused at constituent office, home and family (inc kids) being verbally abused (Farage, Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Angela Eagle)

I don't necessarily condone the views of the politicians above, but clearly there has been an issue for quite some time, and for some it's become a permissible past time to pick on certain people just because.

None of it is right.

Targeting Rees-Mogg's kids was wrong as was abusing the other politicians. But to claim what happened to Anna Soubry was mild chanting/mild is utterly wrong, it was open, but low level, physical intimidation.
 
GB - I’m not quite sure why you keep referring to Godwin’s law. Simply calling someone a nazi isn’t Godwin’s law. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
I do agree with you that cheap and unfounded comparisons to nazis and hitler are not at helpful in sorting out the shocking situation Britain’s got itself into over brexit though.
 
GB - I’m not quite sure why you keep referring to Godwin’s law. Simply calling someone a nazi isn’t Godwin’s law. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
I do agree with you that cheap and unfounded comparisons to nazis and hitler are not at helpful in sorting out the shocking situation Britain’s got itself into over brexit though.
This quote from the link: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler to think a bit harder about the Holocaust

Calling protesters Nazis fits that. Calling Soubry a Nazi is wrong too. Neither deserve that. Calling Soubry tone deaf might fit.

Targeting Rees-Mogg's kids was wrong as was abusing the other politicians. But to claim what happened to Anna Soubry was mild chanting/mild is utterly wrong, it was open, but low level, physical intimidation.
BIB. Being made to stay in a pub because of baying mob physically threatening you (among other persistent offences) or having your constituent office windows bricked, is way worse than what triggered the 50 MPs. Not right, but they picked the softest of the abuse to get angry about.

To be fair, if they had called Soubry a stupid woman, they could have denied it and it would have been all fine...
 
as I don't believe you're stupid enough to believe there is no differnce between one man silently muttering something under his breath which may or may not have been "stupid woman: after heated exchanges in a public space to someone who is at least 15 yards away and with a small majority and several men sytematically abusing and getting in the face of a woman on the street as she walks to her workplace I can only suggest that you are a sympathiser.
 
I am being sarcastic on the Stupid Woman thing. That was much ado about nothing, and still is.

Open question. Is the abuse worse because it was done to a woman, rather than what it was? Someone like Farage (who has been out there) has had to change his life to stop the nutters. I'd say that is way, way worse than Soubry's issue, and I'd be concerned as to why that abuse has seemingly been permissible.

None of it is ok.
 
I don't recall Soubry making quite as many dog-whistle, fear and hate-filled claims as Farage...nor did she stand in front of a poster of a queue of refugees condoning and endorsing the message it put across.

One could argue that what Farage did was wilful incitement...It does not condone the reaction, but Farage knew exactly how devisive his rhetoric was and still is.

I am not sure pointing out the deficiencies of Brexit and the current process and the suggestion that the decision needs to be put back to the electorate, is quite in the same league.

That said, Soubry has been a willing member of a government that introduced austerity, the effects of which we are only beginning to see (none of which was the original aim espoused by Osbourne et al). That is a far bigger crime.
 
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