National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

[tonyw]

You know what, I think if I was a staunch Brexiteer, then I would probably be voting in favour of May's deal today.

Yes, it's a terrible deal. Yes, it only extricates Britain from half of the thousands of connections it has with Europe, is incredibly nebulous on many other issues, and if and when the trade deal negotiations fail, it locks Britain into a ridiculous fallback position.

But it's a start, and begins to extricate Britain from the EU. And once that process gets going, there will be opportunities at a later date to modify the arrangement to turn it into something like the 'true' Brexit that they want. Certainly will be easier to do that than reverse it and rejoin the EU. Being pragmatic in politics, you can often get to the solution you want incrementally.

But nope, principles have to get in the way of pragmatism. And the arch-Brexiteers are going to turn it down in the hope of No Deal Brexit.....despite the fact that MPs have already indicated that there is a strong majority in parliament trying to avoid that scenario......when it is much more likely that rejecting May's deal is going to lead to an extension of EU membership and/or a second referendum.

Frankly, I like the most likely route to a No Deal Brexit is the EU just getting tired of us, and pulling up the drawbridge!

 

[Northstandboy]

I don't get it. They are voting on an amendment to allow us to leave the back stop. Surely if this is passed, May's deal is better if we can simply leave the backstop?

 

[tonyw]

I don't get it. They are voting on an amendment to allow us to leave the back stop. Surely if this is passed, May's deal is better if we can simply leave the backstop?

Yes, it would be better for the UK, but then the EU won't sign it. It's just political posturing.

 

[Northstandboy]

Yes, it would be better for the UK, but then the EU won't sign it. It's just political posturing.

Christ!

 

[Northstandboy]

Why did they vote against being able to leave he backstop??? I don't get it.

 

[Marked Ox]

Why did they vote against being able to leave he backstop??? I don't get it.

The backstop is a legal agreement so the amendment would have been irrelevant.

 

[Northstandboy]

She lost by 230 votes then. But is fighting on and still plans to deliver Brexit!

 

[Marked Ox]

She lost by 230 votes then. But is fighting on and still plans to deliver Brexit!

Will Corbyn finally have the balls to call for a vote of confidence?

Edit: He has finally shown some balls.

 

[Northstandboy]

Game on then! Jezza has called a no confidence motion!

 

[Banbury2018]

Corbyn’s desperation to govern ( ruin) this country has finally been forced. A vote of no confidence will now take place which Teresa May will win because all conservatives and dup(326) will back her on as voting with the opposition is like turkeys voting for Christmas as the saying goes.

 

[tonyw]

Wow. So 115 of May's own party at least voted against her (EDIT: Apparently the number was 118)

Interesting to see what happens in the No Confidence Vote tomorrow.
Given that the Brexit deal is pretty much the only thing May's government have been working on for the past eighteen months, I'd say it's hard position to justify saying that you reject that deal outright, but still have confidence in the government.

But I wager all the rebel Tory MPs and the DUP will find a way to justify it. And of course that won't be all about self-interest at all.......

 

[bashamwonderland]

Glad that the No Deal battle-wagon continues to roll along.

 

[Northstandboy]

Wow. So 115 of May's own party at least voted against her (EDIT: Apparently the number was 118)

Interesting to see what happens in the No Confidence Vote tomorrow.
Given that the Brexit deal is pretty much the only thing May's government have been working on for the past eighteen months, I'd say it's hard position to justify saying that you reject that deal outright, but still have confidence in the government.

But I wager all the rebel Tory MPs and the DUP will find a way to justify it. And of course that won't be all about self-interest at all.......

If she wins, she make a statement basically saying you back this government, you back me and table the vote again!

 

[Scotchegg]

I thought May dealt with that pretty well, all things considered. She challenged Corbyn to table the no-confidence vote to steal his thunder, agreed to a plan b by Monday and set out plans to get a deal through. It's perhaps the only sign of leadership from anyone in months and might just be enough to see her survive.

 

[Banbury2018]

Wow. So 115 of May's own party at least voted against her (EDIT: Apparently the number was 118)

Interesting to see what happens in the No Confidence Vote tomorrow.
Given that the Brexit deal is pretty much the only thing May's government have been working on for the past eighteen months, I'd say it's hard position to justify saying that you reject that deal outright, but still have confidence in the government.

But I wager all the rebel Tory MPs and the DUP will find a way to justify it. And of course that won't be all about self-interest at all.......

As I said though it’s like turkeys voting for Christmas. A vote of no confidence means a general election plus a new conservative leader will have to be found as Teresa May will not fight the election as leader.

 

[Marked Ox]

I thought May dealt with that pretty well, all things considered. She challenged Corbyn to table the no-confidence vote to steal his thunder, agreed to a plan b by Monday and set out plans to get a deal through. It's perhaps the only sign of leadership from anyone in months and might just be enough to see her survive.

Tbf she's had a month or so to prepare after cancelling the last vote date.

 

[Peterdev]

I think she’s secretly happy that the vote failed. Now she goes back to the EU and they come up with a magic solution. After all parliament and the EU would be pleased to thwart the wishes of the British electorate. This they can do by revoking or delaying article 50, and having another referendum, maybe resulting in the U.K. staying in the EU
The no confidence vote will almost certainly fail as the Tories won’t vote to lose their seats.
In the event of an election there will be a new Tory leader or Corbyn. Can see the lowest turnout in history

 

[tonyw]

As I said though it’s like turkeys voting for Christmas. A vote of no confidence means a general election plus a new conservative leader will have to be found as Teresa May will not fight the election as leader.

Sure, but if you were acting honourably, it would be the only course of action.

To say "I reject everything that May and her government worked on for the past eighteen months, acknowledge that she claims this is the only deal on the table and she is incapable of negotiating another, but I still have confidence in her running the country and continuing to lead the country through the Brexit process" is, frankly, intellectually dishonest.

The only way to really justify voting No today and No tomorrow is because "I like my job, and don't want to risk losing it". In other words self-interest, not national interest.

I don't particularly want a general election, and I sure as hell don't want Prime Minister Corbyn - but Britain needs new leadership to find a solution through the Brexit process, and there's no sign of May falling on her sword.

 

[Banbury2018]

Sure, but if you were acting honourably, it would be the only course of action.

To say "I reject everything that May and her government worked on for the past eighteen months, acknowledge that she claims this is the only deal on the table and she is incapable of negotiating another, but I still have confidence in her running the country and continuing to lead the country through the Brexit process" is, frankly, intellectually dishonest.

The only way to really justify voting No today and No tomorrow is because "I like my job, and don't want to risk losing it". In other words self-interest, not national interest.

I don't particularly want a general election, and I sure as hell don't want Prime Minister Corbyn - but Britain needs new leadership to find a solution through the Brexit process, and there's no sign of May falling on her sword.

You say about dishonesty but it works with all politicians though. Every general election we get told lies. Remember 2010 when Nick Clegg said no tuition fees or 2016 when Labour and the conservatives both said we will act on the will of the people regarding the referendum and LEAVE the Eu.

 

[Big Ronaldo]

Ladies and gentlemen. What we have here is a complete breakdown of parliaments ability to bring about the wishes of the British people. For what is the point of having elected representatives of the people, if those entrusted to serve refuse to follow their constituents clear wishes?
Either they get their act together and do what is required of them or there will almost certainly be unrest.
Do not underestimate the (so far) silent majority. This could quickly turn very ugly indeed.