Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

  • Deal

    Votes: 39 28.9%
  • No Deal

    Votes: 68 50.4%
  • Call in the Donald

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Call in Noel Edmonds

    Votes: 3 2.2%
  • I don't care anymore

    Votes: 24 17.8%

  • Total voters
    135

tonyw

Active member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
418
From the moment Cameron called the referendum, the UK government should have been preparing for the possibility of a clean Brexit.

It’s scandalous that we’ve reached the situation we have, where the government is totally unprepared.

A dereliction of duty in my view.
Dereliction of duty? Yes. Entirely predictable? Also Yes.

Brexit - particularly a No Deal Brexit - is a monster task that requires a massive amount of logistical and administrative planning and infrastructure development. A monster task that our current government, and the civil service at its current levels, were never likely to be up to.

Can't see that Corbyn's lot would be either, so I just don't see how you get out of this mess other than a loooong transition period to actually sort out what needs sorting.
 

Peterdev

Active member
Joined
17 Dec 2017
Messages
801
A second referendum looks likely, with so many in government circles wanting to stay in, and of course the EU not liking the idea of is leaving.
The question is how do the government make it look like they’ve won the day by keeping us in.
 

Gary Baldi

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
2,941
There must be some whataboutery irony in the outrage of seeing Godwin's Law being invoked on Owen Jones and Anna Soubry, when the abuse of Brexiteers and other Remainers has been worse and going on for months and months. And sadly, largely ignored until the generic "far right" get involved.
 

Gary Baldi

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
2,941
And then Soubry calls them racist and fascists in an interview with Kay Burley, thus perpetuating the very cycle she complains about, whatever the context it's used in. I can't help but feel it's badly stuck Godwins Law record where it's to slur the "far right" based on a few people's ignorant abuse.
 

ZeroTheHero

Well-known member
Joined
7 Dec 2017
Messages
1,352
Are you saying it was the far right who were abusing this woman by calling her a 'Nazi'? Ironic
 

Gary Baldi

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
2,941
Are you saying it was the far right who were abusing this woman by calling her a 'Nazi'? Ironic
I'm not as it's not clear if they were "far right" or labelled as such - it was a very quick diagnosis of "far right".

The fact both used Godwins Law so liberally is just silly and cheapens whatever point they were making. Soubry just perpetuates the very thing she understandably didn't like being called.
 

HayfieldYellow

Junior Member
Joined
10 Dec 2017
Messages
86
simple solution......NO DEAL bit too simple for the remainer twats tho it seems
Sorry, but that's not a "simple solution", it's just simple ignorance of reality. No deal is a disaster, and even some Brexiter "twats" (your word not mine) think so too. This comment is from a Leave-supporting site:

"One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected."

Go on, explain why they're wrong. I'll be interested in your informed analysis (but I'm not holding my breath). I expect you'll just insult Remainers (again) for our terrible habit of actually learning a few facts before coming to a conclusion and stating an opinion.
 
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YellowTaxi

Junior Member
Joined
9 Jan 2018
Messages
134
Why would anyone think a man who is fan of far right scumbag Stphen Yaxley lennon screaming at a black policeman "youre not British" is aFar right|" maybe he's just a thick bigot like ""Gary Baldi"
 

HayfieldYellow

Junior Member
Joined
10 Dec 2017
Messages
86
Funny you should mention digging....

Apparently one of the founders is the brother of the owner of JCB...a well known Tory donor and advocate of Brexit.......
I don't think this is true. From what I read, it wasn't a founder (it was a major shareholder) and it's a different Bamford. Let's leave the conspiracies to the Brexiters.
 
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HayfieldYellow

Junior Member
Joined
10 Dec 2017
Messages
86
They`ve had 2 years to sort out such things and are doing their best to leave us attached to the EU yoke....
Yep, we can ignore the "EU yoke"...so long as we're happy to forgo trade with EU countries. Which will put a massive hole in the economy. Remainers have been telling you this for two and a half years and you still think there's some magic solution that "they" need to find. You voted for a contradiction. You were lied to. There are no magic beans.
 
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HayfieldYellow

Junior Member
Joined
10 Dec 2017
Messages
86
I'm not as it's not clear if they were "far right" or labelled as such - it was a very quick diagnosis of "far right". The fact both used Godwins Law so liberally is just silly and cheapens whatever point they were making. Soubry just perpetuates the very thing she understandably didn't like being called.
The ringleader of the thugs outside Parliament is apparently one James Goddard, who has just been kicked off Facebook for extremism. His account posted "a torrent of anti-Islam and anti-immigrant abuse", including this pleasantry:
“All illegals need deporting ASAP. It's about time the indigenous people of Great Britain, were put first.”
and then reposted this reply:
"Think big. Not just the illegals. P**i traitors of any stripe, along with your treasonous officials who enable the ethnic cleansing of the native British people."
I don't think Godwin's Law applies when you're referring to self-identifying racists. But if you're happy to defend this sort of low-life that's your choice I suppose.

(Source)
 

Essexyellows

Active member
Joined
7 Dec 2017
Messages
803
Yep, we can ignore the "EU yoke"...so long as we're happy to forgo trade with EU countries. Which will put a massive hole in the economy. Remainers have been telling you this for two and a half years and you still think there's some magic solution that "they" need to find. You voted for a contradiction. You were lied to. There are no magic beans.
We will not "forgo trade with EU Countries" because business & £££`s will not allow it to happen.
We may get a period of adjustment but that is all, remember we are adopting all EU Regs & Statutes into UK law until they are reviewed or untangled so there is little reason that trade with the EU will not continue.
Its an adjustment to a relationship not the apocalypse many remainers are forecasting.
 

Sheik djibouti

Active member
Joined
8 Dec 2017
Messages
194
I don't think this is true. From what I read, it wasn't a founder (it was a major shareholder) and it's a different Bamford. Let's leave the conspiracies to the Brexiters.
Yes you are right. This was a different Bamford. So whilst the cronyism isn't as immediately apparent, it is still a really odd situation that warrants further investigation, particularly when the FT run articles like this one: https://www.ft.com/content/16e2d6e4-1271-11e9-a581-4ff78404524e Neither should we forget the fact that Ramsgate is going to struggle to be ready in time for Brexit, and Ostende have categorically said they will not be in a position to run the ferry service come 29th March, despite Mr Raincock's assertions in the above article.

Yet another example of Chris Grayling's incompetence and if we were in normal times, I think he would've been sacked a long time ago. And this is in itself another example of why the all pervasive issue of Breit is so damaging to the normal functioning of government. Incompetence and dereliction are simply swept under the carpet because the Govt are too pre-occupied and too weak to do anything about it. And it is us (some more than others) who suffer the consequences.
 

Marked Ox

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
6,010
There must be some whataboutery irony in the outrage of seeing Godwin's Law being invoked on Owen Jones and Anna Soubry, when the abuse of Brexiteers and other Remainers has been worse and going on for months and months. And sadly, largely ignored until the generic "far right" get involved.
The difference here is they tried to block Anna Soubry getting into Parliament through low level physical intimidation. That has implications for democracy and a MP doing their job. She isn't the only woman targeted in this way.

I thought Owen James handled it well and made them look particularly stupid.
 

Gary Baldi

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
2,941
Why would anyone think a man who is fan of far right scumbag Stphen Yaxley lennon screaming at a black policeman "youre not British" is aFar right|" maybe he's just a thick bigot like ""Gary Baldi"
Thanks for proving my point!
The ringleader of the thugs outside Parliament is apparently one James Goddard, who has just been kicked off Facebook for extremism. His account posted "a torrent of anti-Islam and anti-immigrant abuse", including this pleasantry:
and then reposted this reply:

I don't think Godwin's Law applies when you're referring to self-identifying racists. But if you're happy to defend this sort of low-life that's your choice I suppose.

(Source)
I have no doubt there are far right idiots out there - it's cat nip for them and they lack the intelligence to say anything more insightful. It's the lazy presumption that all are automatically far right without checking, and the use of Godwins Law by both sides to denigrate the other. Why are they racist calling someone scum? Why has it been ok to use Godwins Law on the likes of Farage or Johnson, but now it's not for Soubry?

I can't help but feel the largely unchecked abuse of Breixteers and less prominent Remainers for the past 3 years has led to the abuse of Soubry. None of it is ok and I do not endorse the abuse of anyone - whatever their views. My point is, why has some mild chanting and comments got 50 MPs enraged, when they've let worse abuse go unchecked?
 

Gary Baldi

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
2,941
The difference here is they tried to block Anna Soubry getting into Parliament through low level physical intimidation. That has implications for democracy and a MP doing their job. She isn't the only woman targeted in this way.

I thought Owen James handled it well and made them look particularly stupid.
As I've just said, it was mild. Compared to Farage being surrounded by 80 people outside of a pub in Scotland calling him scum, it's still not on, but where was the outrage about mobs then? I've banged on about the abuse of MPs on all sides for over a year and how much I disagree with it, and only now MPs think it's a problem. Abuse of our politicians is not ok.
 

Marked Ox

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
6,010
Thanks for proving my point!

I have no doubt there are far right idiots out there - it's cat nip for them and they lack the intelligence to say anything more insightful. It's the lazy presumption that all are automatically far right without checking, and the use of Godwins Law by both sides to denigrate the other. Why are they racist calling someone scum? Why has it been ok to use Godwins Law on the likes of Farage or Johnson, but now it's not for Soubry?

I can't help but feel the largely unchecked abuse of Breixteers and less prominent Remainers for the past 3 years has led to the abuse of Soubry. None of it is ok and I do not endorse the abuse of anyone - whatever their views. My point is, why has some mild chanting and comments got 50 MPs enraged, when they've let worse abuse go unchecked?
It wasn't just mild chanting, they surrounded Anna Soubry shouting abuse at her, right in her face, deliberately getting in her physical space and trying to block her going into Parliament. It was low level physical intimidation considering it was a load of blokes surrounding an individual woman.
 

YellowTaxi

Junior Member
Joined
9 Jan 2018
Messages
134
Physical threats by far right of an MP at her place of work

How peculiar that Mr Baldi wants to miminise it.
 
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