National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

  • Deal

    Votes: 51 29.1%
  • No Deal

    Votes: 77 44.0%
  • Call in the Donald

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Call in Noel Edmonds

    Votes: 8 4.6%
  • I don't care anymore

    Votes: 37 21.1%

  • Total voters
    175
Why would house prices collapse? They’ve already done so in the light of three years uncertainty.
We’ve had ten years of near zero interest rates and with uncertainty due to end soon....at least most of us hope so, I’d imagine if anything we should be cautiously optimistic. I think the EU will come up with some compromise as we get nearer to October.
It’s in the interests of all concerned to do trade deals.
Trade barriers are of no help to anyone.
The only concern I have at the moment is the stand off between China and US and the very sad things going on in HK.

So all hope and wishful thinking. Fantastic stuff.
 
Why would house prices collapse? They’ve already done so in the light of three years uncertainty.
I don’t know anybody whose house is worth less now than it was three years ago - mine is worth probably 10% more than it was in 2016. There’s been no housing recession since the vote, so I don’t know how you can say anybody’s property value has tumbled. There’s signs of a slide creeping in now, though, with a complete freeze in values over the last 12 months and one or two regions (the south east, worryingly) experiencing a tiny drop of 1% or so. The house prices don’t come to a stop and then start to tip right before they suddenly shoot up. Not when we’re about to change our trading relationship with the entire world, possibly overnight, with no preparation. That’s quite fanciful.

There is a global recession coming in the near future just like the one that took place a decade or so ago, when everybody’s house price tumbled. That’s nothing to do with Brexit, but it’s going make sure that nobody’s house is worth what it is now very soon.
 
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Not so sure about the house prices. The pound is likely to crash meaning that property for foreigners (or UK Nationals with offshore funds) will look like generous investment opportunities, leading to a spike in demand.
You’ve also ignored the bit about the global recession. If that hits - and it will - Brexit is irrelevant.
 
I don’t know anybody whose house is worth less now than it was three years ago - mine is worth probably 10% more than it was in 2016. There’s been no housing recession since the vote, so I don’t know how you can say anybody’s property value has tumbled. There’s signs of a slide creeping in now, though, with a complete freeze in values over the last 12 months and one or two regions (the south east, worryingly) experiencing a tiny drop of 1% or so. The house prices don’t come to a stop and then start to tip right before they suddenly shoot up. Not when we’re about to change our trading relationship with the entire world, possibly overnight, with no preparation. That’s quite fanciful.

There is a global recession coming in the near future just like the one that took place a decade or so ago, when everybody’s house price tumbled. That’s nothing to do with Brexit, but it’s going make sure that nobody’s house is worth what it is now very soon.

I don’t live in Oxford but here in Hampshire and Surrey, now London too, property prices have dropped. It’s up north where prices have continued to move upwards. Growth areas like Liverpool and Leeds have been leading the way.
There will be a great deal of repair work needed to the infrastructure north of the midlands, train services, etc
Over the last ten years and more there has been a big drop in manufacturing. Retail has been badly affected.
Question is will that improve by leaving the EU.i don’t think anyone really knows the answer.
A lot of talk going out on about us crashing out of the EU, but having been in it for over forty years there has for years been much pessimism about where this country is heading.
 
Better than all the constant negativity I keep seeing and reading

Others call it realism, such as agriculture is expected to lose £800-£850m income after a no deal Brexit (BBC News) and under WTO rules food imports will no longer have to meet our food standards.

Even Johnson can't rule out food shortages based on his recent comments.
 
I’d like to think though with the money saved from EU contributions our farmers will get support from taxpayers.
Maybe some of the rich London house owners could pay more. Council Tax payers there with £3m properties only paying £2000pa. People in Oxford and elsewhere are paying way over the odds
 
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I have to take issue with that view Peter. When people express concerns about the effects of Brexit, they're not necessarily being negative. Some are, and will never accept Brexit could ever be positive in any way, but most are intelligent people simply expressing justifiable concerns that are at least worthy of debate.

Contrast that with others whose 'views' are based on no insight, no facts, no knowledge, just some indefinable belief that repeating 'everything will be alright' will make it so.

Ask yourself which is the more sensible approach? Question the efficacy of Brexit and actually discuss it based on facts and data, or deny the possibility of any problems based on nothing of substance whatsoever?

Here in deeply conservative, Brexit-supporting Lincolnshire I'm being stalked on a local Facebook group by a guy who defines the word 'moron'. He keeps repeating 'hard Brexit, no deal'. When challenged to explain his position he refers to his challengers as 'snowflakes'. That's it. Nothing deeper than that, and I fear some on this forum are similar-minded.

There is a lot of fear and worry about brexit, and to some extent I share that. Food shortages concern me. In Waitrose this morning I noticed many empty shelves. Will that get worse and will food prices rise if the pound falls?
I’m concerned about ports being blockaded, and difficulties at the borders.
I do think though there is reason for optimism. We will still trade with our partners in the EU and elsewhere at terms that suit the U.K.
America concerns me with Trump in charge, because he conducts business at a whim and will engage in a quarrel with any trading partners.
 
I’d like to think though with the money saved from EU contributions our farmers will get support from taxpayers.
Maybe some of the rich London house owners could pay more. Council Tax payers there with £3m properties only paying £2000pa. People in Oxford and elsewhere are paying way over the odds

I agree with your point on Council Tax to a degree but that money would go to the local authorities.

It isn't just money
There is a lot of fear and worry about brexit, and to some extent I share that. Food shortages concern me. In Waitrose this morning I noticed many empty shelves. Will that get worse and will food prices rise if the pound falls?
I’m concerned about ports being blockaded, and difficulties at the borders.
I do think though there is reason for optimism. We will still trade with our partners in the EU and elsewhere at terms that suit the U.K.
America concerns me with Trump in charge, because he conducts business at a whim and will engage in a quarrel with any trading partners.

On what basis do you get "trade with our partners in the EU (and elsewhere) at terms that suit the UK"?

Johnson is grandstanding about the £39bn divorce bill money and not paying it over. Well, he campaigned on paying none of it over but he has had to admit at least a quarter will have to be paid over. So us not meeting our commitments is going to mean the EU are going to do a deal on terms that suit us?
 
I agree with your point on Council Tax to a degree but that money would go to the local authorities.

It isn't just money


On what basis do you get "trade with our partners in the EU (and elsewhere) at terms that suit the UK"?

Johnson is grandstanding about the £39bn divorce bill money and not paying it over. Well, he campaigned on paying none of it over but he has had to admit at least a quarter will have to be paid over. So us not meeting our commitments is going to mean the EU are going to do a deal on terms that suit us?
We don’t get terms as good but that is all up for discussion at the moment.
I’m not sure either that it is a good idea to withhold payment if we have signed an agreement to pay. It’s more to do with BJ playing the Thatcher type to strike a deal.
I’m sure there will be a deal before October as BJ will want to avoid an election. Second referendum unlikely too.
As I see it A50 has been activated with a deadline of 31/10 that is set in stone, deal or no deal. All sides want a deal as that is really the most sensible option for all
 
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We don’t get terms as good but that is all up for discussion at the moment.
I’m not sure either that it is a good idea to withhold payment if we have signed an agreement to pay. It’s more to do with BJ playing the Thatcher type to strike a deal.
I’m sure there will be a deal before October as BJ will want to avoid an election. Second referendum unlikely too.
As I see it A50 has been activated with a deadline of 31/10 that is set in stone, deal or no deal. All sides want a deal as that is really the most sensible option for all

Sadly we are then back to the "backstop" but Johnson is offering nothing new. All he is saying is get rid of the backstop and we negotiate and we've already tried over the last 3 years.
 
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It looks that way.
Something will surely give.
Anyway time for a few beers in the sun...enjoy your weekend and think of tomorrows game, far less depressing or is it?
 
Talk is BoJo is going to call an election soon - the polling on the Tories is good, the other side are squabbling about No Deal again and who leads the People's Front of Judea and what is stands for, and Corbyn looks confused as usual. And the party are on a "war-footing" and ready with funding to neutralise the Islington Mafia

If only Remainers took leaving in an orderly manner as seriously as they have taken stopping it and point scoring. We'd be gone by now and most would be ok.
 
I wonder if there is a move to bring Farage on board by an agreement to co-operate on who contests seats. If the Conservatives stood aside in Labour areas up north and Brexit allow the Tories a better chance in the marginals in the south of England. If it’s done towards the end of October I’d think they’d be a good chance the Liberals and Labour Parties will struggle in any bid for power.
Corbyn credibility I think is diving by the day. I’m sure there will be a realignment of politics once the election has passed.
 
If BJ brings Farage on board then Steptoe will be in the wilderness for decades and this whole sorry mess will be resolved.
It is the uncertainty that causes issues nothing else...
 
I wonder if there is a move to bring Farage on board by an agreement to co-operate on who contests seats. If the Conservatives stood aside in Labour areas up north and Brexit allow the Tories a better chance in the marginals in the south of England. If it’s done towards the end of October I’d think they’d be a good chance the Liberals and Labour Parties will struggle in any bid for power.
Corbyn credibility I think is diving by the day. I’m sure there will be a realignment of politics once the election has passed.

Farage has said today that he'll come on board if, and only if, BoJo commits to a No Deal Brexit. He's said that if he tries to sign Britain up to a Withdrawal deal (even without the backstop) that the Brexit Party will run against the Tories in every constituency up and down the land.

Honestly, in many ways, this might well be the most reasonable solution here. A general election before October 31st, with each party having clearly defined positions on Brexit - Tories and their partners for No Deal; Lib Dems and the SNP (plus Caroline Lucas in Brighton) for revoking Article 50; Labour for......errrmm..….probably for more pfaffing about with the EU trying to negotiate a different deal for the next two years.

If BoJo then wins a majority in the Commons (with or without the DUP and/or any Brexit Party candidates that might run and win in traditionally Labour areas), it's essentially been a de facto second referendum on a No Deal Brexit - that's been proven to be the will of the nation, so go ahead and do it and try to deal with the consequences.

If BoJo doesn't win a majority, then it's clear that the majority of the country doesn't want a No Deal Brexit, so we delay for a long period of time until something else can be worked out.

Will avoid the constitutional crisis we're otherwise headed for as BoJo tries to go against the will of parliament...….
 
Talk is BoJo is going to call an election soon - the polling on the Tories is good, the other side are squabbling about No Deal again and who leads the People's Front of Judea and what is stands for, and Corbyn looks confused as usual. And the party are on a "war-footing" and ready with funding to neutralise the Islington Mafia

If only Remainers took leaving in an orderly manner as seriously as they have taken stopping it and point scoring. We'd be gone by now and most would be ok.
That’s always the problem isn’t It, those damm retainers who have meddled and procrastinated.

Well what about Farage who legged it to America hoping his best mate could get him a nice cushey ambassador job, wee as soon as that gravy train left the station he turns to the UK and gets his buddy to supplement his MEP wages?

Bojo the clown who went very quiet and made a complete cock up of the foreign office job,

Gove who stayed in power and supported. The EU deal,

Britten who has f**ked off to live in France,

Bannon who went quiet post poll and only now after retaining his MEP post has started talking No deal or is it one of those unicorns that Jacob keeps talking about?

Even now Bojo the clown speaks hot air and achieves nothing whilst ignoring the fact it was him who said we needed to leave the EU but forgot that the Republic of Ireland had the audacity to remain part of the EU. You talk about the Tory polls well but ignore the fact that there is no money to pay for it unless we borrow even more...

It was the brexiteers on the conservative side who meant the deal did not pass not the remainers.

Yet somehow you ignore facts and make Blaise comments about the whole mess laying blame elsewhere. Your answer to my question reflects that you keep banging on about leaving but what you’re leaving which is so bad is never explained and are happy to end up in a worse position financially and politically in a worldwide context.
 
That’s always the problem isn’t It, those damm retainers who have meddled and procrastinated.

Well what about Farage who legged it to America hoping his best mate could get him a nice cushey ambassador job, wee as soon as that gravy train left the station he turns to the UK and gets his buddy to supplement his MEP wages?

Bojo the clown who went very quiet and made a complete cock up of the foreign office job,

Gove who stayed in power and supported. The EU deal,

Britten who has f**ked off to live in France,

Bannon who went quiet post poll and only now after retaining his MEP post has started talking No deal or is it one of those unicorns that Jacob keeps talking about?

Even now Bojo the clown speaks hot air and achieves nothing whilst ignoring the fact it was him who said we needed to leave the EU but forgot that the Republic of Ireland had the audacity to remain part of the EU. You talk about the Tory polls well but ignore the fact that there is no money to pay for it unless we borrow even more...

It was the brexiteers on the conservative side who meant the deal did not pass not the remainers.

Yet somehow you ignore facts and make Blaise comments about the whole mess laying blame elsewhere. Your answer to my question reflects that you keep banging on about leaving but what you’re leaving which is so bad is never explained and are happy to end up in a worse position financially and politically in a worldwide context.
Don't you use whataboutism, some will get all offended and stomp off. Tut, tut.

No. But if Remainer MPs had engaged in the process honestly to seek a mutual resolution to leaving the EU, rather than working with the Speaker on trying to stop it in any way they can, where we would be? Sadly, they've not accepted the result still and don't seem to be anytime soon. How arrogant and conceited is that? Sod 17.4 million people, we want custard for dinner and we'll cry unless we get it! ?

We've wasted 3 years of legislative time to go backwards and we are stumbling to No Deal as a consequence because the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea are having existential crises about everything and not engaging in the process in a meaningful way. They show no understanding of time or process.

Some wise commentators said May's deal was the best Remainers were going to get when it came to Parliament, and at the moment, it looks more prescient than even I thought. That had close EU regulatory alignment and a divorce deal, No Deal as we have it, will mean nothing on the former, and little on the latter. If no one wants a No Deal, why have Remainers let it happen? They are as much, if not more, to blame than the ERG as they had the numbers to take deals over the line - more obsessed about taking the Govt down.

The biggest fact being missed is we voted to Leave the EU, we don't vote for a hard/soft/extreme Brexit or any such Remainer fudge, nor a perennial backstop in NI.

Not sure why you've got a hard on for Steve Bannon? Is he an MEP? Who is Britten? I thought he was dead?

Dearest Jezza the Red has played such an incompetent blinder than no one really knows what he wants or what he thinks. He just mumbles at the camera and asks for Seamus in the background, while his deputies are plotting in the background. No wonder Mr 22% Macron is fed up.
 
No. But if Remainer MPs had engaged in the process honestly to seek a mutual resolution to leaving the EU, rather than working with the Speaker on trying to stop it in any way they can, where we would be? Sadly, they've not accepted the result still and don't seem to be anytime soon. How arrogant and conceited is that? Sod 17.4 million people, we want custard for dinner and we'll cry unless we get it! ?

Some wise commentators said May's deal was the best Remainers were going to get when it came to Parliament, and at the moment, it looks more prescient than even I thought. That had close EU regulatory alignment and a divorce deal, No Deal as we have it, will mean nothing on the former, and little on the latter. If no one wants a No Deal, why have Remainers let it happen? They are as much, if not more, to blame than the ERG as they had the numbers to take deals over the line - more obsessed about taking the Govt down.

1) The Remainer MPs were representing the 16.1 million Brits who voted to stay in the EU (as well as the youngsters that are either too young to get a vote, or idiotically didn't exercise their right to do so); those who thought that leaving the EU was an act of self-sabotaged and would rather it didn't happen. Or if it did have to happen, that it would be as 'soft' as possible.

2) The Remainer MPs haven't let No Deal happen yet - they're still working hard to stop it. Which is why we've still got two months of political shenanigans ahead of us.
 
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