National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

  • Deal

    Votes: 51 29.1%
  • No Deal

    Votes: 77 44.0%
  • Call in the Donald

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Call in Noel Edmonds

    Votes: 8 4.6%
  • I don't care anymore

    Votes: 37 21.1%

  • Total voters
    175
They were democratic choices from party memberships & MPs, as all leaders for parties over here are. We don't have a presidential election after all, so it's not a real comparitor.

The EUs one person vote presidential, with no choice from members (etc) or hustings (like the Tories and Lib Dems have been doing) is wholly undemocratic.

May wasn't chosen by her party membership. It never got past a Conservative (one party) MP's vote before the others withdrew she was elected (coronated) unopposed. This is less democratic than the process that von der Leyen has just been through as the whole of the European Parliament got to vote (and there was significant opposition to her election - 374 for, 327 against, 22 abstentions - Juncker got 422 in 2014). MEPs, lest we forget, who were elected by us.

As for BJ - it obviously has gone to Tory membership vote, but still in the hands of a mere 160,00 ish people who will decide what they think is best for us all at arguably a pretty pivotal moment in our history.

So again - how is that less democratic than the time-honoured process in place in Westminster....the Bastion of democracy and Parliamentary sovereignty?
 
Last edited:
May wasn't chosen by her party membership. It never got past a Conservative (one party) MP's vote before the others withdrew she was elected (coronated) unopposed. This is less democratic than the process that von der Leyen has just been through as the whole of the European Parliament got to vote (and there was significant opposition to her election - 374 for, 327 against, 22 abstentions - Juncker got 422 in 2014). MEPs, lest we forget, who were elected by us.

As for BJ - it obviously has gone to Tory membership vote, but still in the hands of a mere 160,00 ish people who will decide what they think is best for us all at arguably a pretty pivotal moment in our history.

So again - how is that less democratic than the time-honoured process in place in Westminster....the Bastion of democracy and Parliamentary sovereignty?
Andrea Leadsom withdrew from the contest didn't she? After Gove took out Boris and Maybot had a lot of support, she stepped back because she thought it was important to get on with Brexit. So as per the rules, the Maybot won.

If Leadsom had carried on, then hustings would have taken place, etc, etc. They followed their process. MPs firsting/seconding, MPs voting, hustings, MPs voting hustings, etc, etc.

Von Der Leyen's process where she politicked in by Mutti and then the only one on the voting form is night and day different. If Maybot was not firsted/seconded by 8 (?), she would not have got on the ballot paper.
 
Nigel claims 52% of the vote doesnt legitimise a vote. A tad hypocritical methinks .....

Christ he is an embarrassment. HE represents everything that is wrong with politics in one comical caricature.

Well it would be funny if so many people weren't continuing to swallow his utter horseshit. It's almost like he's openly mocking you!
 
MPs vote to spike shut the door, on who ever the next PM is, from disbanding parliament to 'force' a no-deal Bexit. A number of Tory MPs defied a threeline party whip to either vote in a change in the law, or to abstain ...

 
Oh Michele Garnier has tweeted:


Wonder if this is a sign the EU are willing to rethink things?

I actually view it as the exact opposite. I think it's a restatement of their position, and a direct challenge to Boris.

He's saying he's looking forward to "facilitating the ratification of the Withdrawal Agreement"
Boris has stated that the Withdrawal Agreement is dead.
There's not much of a compromise position there.

So much of the inept politics over the past couple of years - particularly on the British side - has been depressingly predictable.
But whilst we know what BoJo's next Brexit move is going to be.....barreling over to Brussels with a lot of bluster, requesting a withdrawal agreement redraft and a removal of the backstop......I genuinely have no idea how the EU is going to respond. I get the feeling that Macron would love to give him the finger and force a No Deal Brexit vs. existing Withdrawal Agreement ratification vs. Article 50 revocation decision on Britain before Halloween. Other Europeans would rather another Brexit delay and another round of talks. It's going to be (gross understatement) interesting to see which side wins.
 
It's been interesting to see how the Irish position has softened a touch in the past week when this reality has turned up on their door step. The Maybots unwillingness to even walk away made it easy on the EU - and some MPs implicit endorsement of it made it even easier.

This is the first time the EU side don't know how it will go. New negotiators, new team, new impetus and a "Brexiteer" to talk to. Gonna be tough I feel
 
And for all Boris's bluster over no deal, he will still struggle to sneak that past Parliament. The EU know that just as much as the rest of us. And with proroguing effectively off the menu, it is looking like an increasingly hollow threat.

As for withholding payment to the the EU...still struggling to see how that helps our trading position, with action through the courts by the EU more likely than any deal.

Who was it who said the first rule of politics is that you have to be able to count[emoji848]
 
......I genuinely have no idea how the EU is going to respond. I get the feeling that Macron would love to give him the finger and force a No Deal Brexit vs. existing Withdrawal
Surely Macron is not that stupid?
What seems to be ignored is the fact that as well as having a big affect on the British economy if there is a no deal, the EUs economy, of which parts are already not doing particularly well will suffer.
That includes France. Macron is already u popular I France so to be the one to ensure a no deal and damage the French economy?
I still hope that there will be a pragmatic. Solution somehow.
 
Boris will suspend Brexit indefinitely because it is unworkable and will get away with it because he's told everyone he's a Brexiteer. :ROFLMAO:

He will also convince everyone that now is not the right time to concentrate effort on Brexit as there are far more pressing domestic and international issues that deserve his and our attention. This would make it the single most honest thing Boris had ever said and will prove to be a bit of a Road to Damascus moment for him. Expect phrases like "we all need to gt a grip back on reality....."

Meanwhile Farage will simply explode in a cloud of his own bile and P**s.
 
And for all Boris's bluster over no deal, he will still struggle to sneak that past Parliament. The EU know that just as much as the rest of us. And with proroguing effectively off the menu, it is looking like an increasingly hollow threat.

As for withholding payment to the the EU...still struggling to see how that helps our trading position, with action through the courts by the EU more likely than any deal.

Who was it who said the first rule of politics is that you have to be able to count[emoji848]

Diane Abbott?
 
And for all Boris's bluster over no deal, he will still struggle to sneak that past Parliament. The EU know that just as much as the rest of us. And with proroguing effectively off the menu, it is looking like an increasingly hollow threat.

As for withholding payment to the the EU...still struggling to see how that helps our trading position, with action through the courts by the EU more likely than any deal.

Who was it who said the first rule of politics is that you have to be able to count[emoji848]
But if the Govt collapses at the wrong time, we by law, leave on a No Deal basis because MPs voted to trigger article 50. There is nothing parliament can do as the numbers are tricky to get that overturned. A lack of foresight in a massive way
 
I actually view it as the exact opposite. I think it's a restatement of their position, and a direct challenge to Boris.

He's saying he's looking forward to "facilitating the ratification of the Withdrawal Agreement"
There's not much of a compromise position there.

...

But whilst we know what BoJo's next Brexit move is going to be.....barreling over to Brussels with a lot of bluster, requesting a withdrawal agreement redraft and a removal of the backstop......I genuinely have no idea how the EU is going to respond.

I have an inkling. Barnier implied the deal won't change however much Our Dear Leader rants and raves.
 
But if the Govt collapses at the wrong time, we by law, leave on a No Deal basis because MPs voted to trigger article 50. There is nothing parliament can do as the numbers are tricky to get that overturned. A lack of foresight in a massive way

There's about a million ifs still in the process.....

But if the EU won't negotiate further on the Withdrawal Agreement (probable) and if they won't allow another extension beyond Oct 31st (less certain) or if Boris won't accept one (which is what he says.....but we know how fungible what BoJo says is), then as far as I see it, parliament has three options before October 31st:

1) Revoke Article 50
2) Ratify the existing Withdrawal Agreement (assuming Bercow lets it come back to the floor this time)
3) Pass a Vote of No Confidence in the government (which would surely trigger the EU allowing an additional delay while we sort out a new government)

If they failed to get the votes for any one of those, then yes - absolutely - No Deal Brexit would be the default option.

Tend to agree that #1 and #2 are unlikely to ever get the votes. But #3? I think that's much more likely in the face of a No Deal Brexit. The likes of Clarke, Hammond & Gauke seem to be willing to fall on their swords to prevent one......
 
Surely Macron is not that stupid?

The reports from the EU summit back in April suggest that he was pushing hard for a much shorter Brexit delay to force Britain's hand - but that he ended up isolated and had to back down.

He might feel that a 'stick it to the English' strategy will play well at home, and that he can pin the blame any economic woes that result from Brexit squarely on us. This is supposedly what Juncker accused him of doing......
 
Back
Top Bottom