National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

  • Deal

    Votes: 51 29.1%

  • No Deal

    Votes: 77 44.0%

  • Call in the Donald

    Votes: 2 1.1%

  • Call in Noel Edmonds

    Votes: 8 4.6%

  • I don't care anymore

    Votes: 37 21.1%
  • Total voters
    175
Marked Ox said:
The meds were very specialised, coming from Holland iirc. By time sensitive, it was a couple of hours from the factory to being taken which is already tight and being held up in customs would make the medication useless therefore risking the small number of patients' lives.
Click to expand...

Actually cuts both ways. The Dutch import an awful lot of UK medicines. We (the NHS) have been planning since 2018 to create a buffer for supplies that doesn`t force market price increases.
This is public domain as evidence: https://assets.publishing.service.g..._data/file/735745/brexit-medicines-letter.pdf

Pete Burrett said:
I've heard this said before, in some cases by 'business people' (company owners) who should have some insight, in some cases by people who haven't a clue.

To me it sounds like just another 'everything will be alright' sentiment, with hope overriding the real concerns shared by so many people.

Sadly, it reminds me of @Dave T's 'positive bus' initiative, where we were asked to believe in promotion (or was it avoiding relegation?) and everything would turn out alright. No basis in fact or research or in-depth thinking, just sheer hope/faith. A bit like following a religion.
Click to expand...

How can anyone do any research or base things in "fact" when no country has ever left the EU?
Did the Vikings think "Ohhh theres not been any research that there is land over that way?" Course not, they just JFDI and reaped the benefits.

The reality is that both sides need trade to continue, that is Step 1 and will be overcome. The rest will just slot into place, there will be changes over time and it will not "stay the same".
Why fear the future when none of us knows what it holds?
1739
 
Oslernorth said:
It maybe possible that the hardline Brexiteers and hardline Remainers that dominate these discussions are actually themselves in the minority. And the actual majority of the country just want a conclusion to this mess either way. If this theory is ture then a second Referendum wouldn't actually be a problem.

Unfortunately it's very difficult to gauge if this is the case or not because they aren't the type of people that ring up Phone In's or continually make the voice known on social media
Click to expand...
My impression is most in the majority of people just want "it" done now as they are fed up of Brexit and the associated chatter. They want their schools to be financed better, the roads to be improved, the NHS to be better, etc.
 
Essexyellows said:
How can anyone do any research or base things in "fact" when no country has ever left the EU?

The reality is that both sides need trade to continue, that is Step 1 and will be overcome. The rest will just slot into place, there will be changes over time and it will not "stay the same".
Click to expand...
You are right - no country has ever left the EU. So how can you say this or that *will* happen? It's as much guesswork as the apprehension that others feel.

If nobody heard it, there was a very good interview with John Major on R4 this morning. He may not be the most exciting man in the world, but it was a relief to hear someone talking clearly and logically about matters (Tory party, how Brexit might happen, Johnson's threat to suspend parliament etc). It showed how low the bar has become in terms of the quality of politicians we are now enduring (on all sides).
 
Essexyellows said:
Actually cuts both ways. The Dutch import an awful lot of UK medicines. We (the NHS) have been planning since 2018 to create a buffer for supplies that doesn`t force market price increases.
This is public domain as evidence: https://assets.publishing.service.g..._data/file/735745/brexit-medicines-letter.pdf
Click to expand...

I did say in this specific case which could have a real case of causing deaths (a small number). Haven't a clue on other cases but I'd be very surprised if there aren't any more but still a small number either way.

And in this case they couldn't create a buffer as explained why and it would have to be checked by Customs* coming in which risks the meds becoming useless.

*The parents on the programme were advised of this by Customs.

Also, I never said there wasn't medical trade both ways. The point was in relation to your comment that a hard Brexit wouldn't kill any one.
 
Pete Burrett said:
Bottom line for me is that everyone should accept we don't know what will happen if we Leave. If they don't accept that they are an idiot given that no precedent exists.

You could support the Leave position and hope everything will be OK (how many businesses operate successfully under that scenario?), or you could support the Remain position and maintain the status quo which is at least a 'known'. (Membership of the EU may involve things we don't like in future but the long list of benefits of being in the EU - listed more than once on this thread - offers more security than cliff-jumping.)

I'm afraid macho posturing and repeating 'JFDI' is just unhelpful.
Click to expand...

Its not "cliff-jumping" Mr Project Fear. ?

In the same way JFDI isn`t "macho posturing".

You are right about the EU "direction of travel" though. (y)

It is the uncertainty that is currently hampering everything. Actually passing the date, with no deal will actually solve the stagnation.

Remember the choice on the ballot was simple... Leave or Remain and the electorate voted to leave 3 years ago. As previously posted it should have been written into law that the day after the result we left that would have brought sharp focus to the electorate AND saved 3 years of kicking the can down the road.
 
Essexyellows said:
Remember the choice on the ballot was simple... Leave or Remain and the electorate voted to leave 3 years ago. As previously posted it should have been written into law that the day after the result we left that would have brought sharp focus to the electorate AND saved 3 years of kicking the can down the road.
Click to expand...
To be fair it is, when Article 50 was triggered, leaving in March was agreed upon by a majority in Parliament. It's in more recent times that they have tried to obfuscate on that vote.
 
Pete Burrett said:
Very, very happy to be known as 'Mr Project Fear' if that indicates I'm actually thinking about the consequences of leaving rather than repeating hackneyed phrases about the supposed benefits.

As for the choice given to the electorate, I'm still hearing people say they knew exactly what they were voting for when choosing Leave. Well, they didn't. They had no idea what Leave would mean therefore they had no idea what they were voting for.
Click to expand...

If that is your case then, by your own definition, ("Membership of the EU may involve things we don't like in future ") then exactly the same could be said for remaining. Would you say they voted for the "unknown" as well?

Despite all that the fact of the matter is that the electorate decided that the future vision of the EU was far away from the Common Market/EEC that we joined so they (the electorate) got off the sofa, walked to the polling station and voted to leave the EU.

As that was not the result that was expected we have now become embroiled in a nonsensical hiatus where those who should be leading aren`t, there is no viable opposition, and the fastest growing group is, in fact, the one saying JFDI. ?

Roll on the 31st October, drop the axe, then start building the future.
 
Pete Burrett said:
Errr .... I embedded my replies in your post deliberately. You probably didn't expand to read the full response.

The graphic is very pretty but gives no new information. The Wikipedia article doesn't address your contention that Leavers voted because 'the future vision of the EU was far away from the EEC we joined' which I challenged. Neither do you give evidence that the 'fastest growing group is the one saying JFDI'.
Click to expand...

I expanded the post thank you.

Didn`t the picture explain the "growth" well enough? Just look at the top....you know "Seats Won" & "Vote Share"........ kind of gives a clue that the one party with JFDI as their only "policy" took 29 seats and 31.6% of the vote.

The Wiki article expands on the many and varied reasons people marked their vote in the "Leave the EU" box. My comment was just that, a summary comment.

What we joined had benefits for this Country, no denying that, free frictionless trade was how it was sold.....what wasn`t mentioned at the time were all the potential negatives that have since impacted on a lot of people in this country. Again the Wiki article expands on those.

As you rightly said in an earlier post there maybe more negatives or unknowns further down the road and the majority didn`t fancy that route.
 
Obviously parliamentary sovereignty really wasn't an issue for Brexiteers:

news.sky.com

Boris Johnson team considering plan to suspend parliament in run up to Brexit

The frontrunner in the race to become prime minister next week has pledged to leave the EU on 31 October "do or die".
news.sky.com news.sky.com

So what else is the reason for Brexit with Parliament and its sovereignty no longer being important? So Johnson is happy to be a dictator then, shouldn't be surprised then.
 
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Marked Ox said:
Obviously parliamentary sovereignty really wasn't an issue for Brexiteers:

news.sky.com

Boris Johnson team considering plan to suspend parliament in run up to Brexit

The frontrunner in the race to become prime minister next week has pledged to leave the EU on 31 October "do or die".
news.sky.com news.sky.com

So what else is the reason for Brexit with Parliament and its sovereignty no longer being important? So Johnson is happy to be a dictator then, shouldn't be surprised then.
Click to expand...

If he does that, then he will lose a No Confidence Vote in the Commons either before or after the prorogue. It may be too late to stop Brexit, but it'll lead to a GE.

I think Boris is too focused on the acquisition and retention of personal power to risk giving it up that quickly...…..
 
Sheik djibouti said:
What...like the last 2 PM stitch ups in this country...that kind of stitch up?
Click to expand...
They were democratic choices from party memberships & MPs, as all leaders for parties over here are. We don't have a presidential election after all, so it's not a real comparitor.

The EUs one person vote presidential, with no choice from members (etc) or hustings (like the Tories and Lib Dems have been doing) is wholly undemocratic.
 
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