National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

QR said:
'But if Britain can't get some freedom to diverge from EU rules and regs, to allow it to gain some competitive advantages vs. the EU '

There it is in one sentence. Why would the EU agree to something that gives the UK a competitive advantage over it?

It's going to be an interesting 2 months.
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With that logic, trade deals would never be agreed between any countries. The point of negotiation is the trading of advantages and disadvantages, Shirley?
 
Well I reckon the deal will be us giving up fishing rights. (30000 jobs or so ) and then Macron can appease his French fish fleet.

So 30000 jobs will stay as they are. Not lose their job. And same on the French side.

And Macron will force that through as a big player in Europe.
 
MarkG said:
Well I reckon the deal will be us giving up fishing rights. (30000 jobs or so ) and then Macron can appease his French fish fleet.

So 30000 jobs will stay as they are. Not lose their job. And same on the French side.

And Macron will force that through as a big player in Europe.
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I wonder how future generations will perceive us for that. What an opportunity missed. Politically that would be a tough sell for Boris but then again I suppose he has another 4 years to make up for it
 
QR said:
'But if Britain can't get some freedom to diverge from EU rules and regs, to allow it to gain some competitive advantages vs. the EU '

There it is in one sentence. Why would the EU agree to something that gives the UK a competitive advantage over it?

It's going to be an interesting 2 months.
Click to expand...

I find it amusing that as time goes by, I'm arguing the Brexit side more and more often.
It's not that I want Brexit.....it's just that I now view it as inevitable, so may as well make the best of it!

The UK and the EU are not negotiating a common market here - they're just negotiating for tariff-free trade.
Take the Canada free trade agreement, by way of example. It abolished tariffs on a ton of different products - but it didn't impose any restrictions on the parties in terms of government subsidies, and it allowed both sides to apply the regulations that they want.

So if Canada wanted to subsidize a particular industry, or enter into a 'race to the bottom' on regulations, it's perfectly free to do so - it just wouldn't be able to export that particular low quality product to the EU.

As I understand it, the the UK-EU trade negotiations, the EU is requesting a lot more than that in terms of rules and regulations that the UK must apply broadly to a variety of sectors in order to get a free trade deal at all. And if Britain signs up to that.....well, basically the country would be in a position of not being able to compete with the EU on anything. I agree with Gove and BoJo on very little - but I would agree that No Deal and tariffs is a better situation for Britain than being completely outside the EU, albeit with tariff-free trade, but entirely beholden to all its rules.
 
Shouldn't this be on another channel thingy? Isn't this politics?
 
tonyw said:
I find it amusing that as time goes by, I'm arguing the Brexit side more and more often.
It's not that I want Brexit.....it's just that I now view it as inevitable, so may as well make the best of it!

The UK and the EU are not negotiating a common market here - they're just negotiating for tariff-free trade.
Take the Canada free trade agreement, by way of example. It abolished tariffs on a ton of different products - but it didn't impose any restrictions on the parties in terms of government subsidies, and it allowed both sides to apply the regulations that they want.

So if Canada wanted to subsidize a particular industry, or enter into a 'race to the bottom' on regulations, it's perfectly free to do so - it just wouldn't be able to export that particular low quality product to the EU.

As I understand it, the the UK-EU trade negotiations, the EU is requesting a lot more than that in terms of rules and regulations that the UK must apply broadly to a variety of sectors in order to get a free trade deal at all. And if Britain signs up to that.....well, basically the country would be in a position of not being able to compete with the EU on anything. I agree with Gove and BoJo on very little - but I would agree that No Deal and tariffs is a better situation for Britain than being completely outside the EU, albeit with tariff-free trade, but entirely beholden to all its rules.
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That’s very well put and interesting. But what a lot of people here don’t seem to realise is that the EU do in fact have a ‘deal’ with Canada - we’ve negotiated and come to an agreement. We haven’t just flounced off with ‘no deal’.
 
This is one of the most frustrating threads to read on here, and that’s saying something!

When using the 2019 general election to try and say that the Tories ‘landslide’ showed that everyone in the country really wanted Brexit, let’s not forget that more people voted for Labour and the Liberal Democrats than voted Conservative. The fact that the Tories got loads more seats than those two parties combined, despite having less votes (??) is just a sign of our broken and illogical electoral system.
 
HampshireYellow said:
This is one of the most frustrating threads to read on here, and that’s saying something!

When using the 2019 general election to try and say that the Tories ‘landslide’ showed that everyone in the country really wanted Brexit, let’s not forget that more people voted for Labour and the Liberal Democrats than voted Conservative. The fact that the Tories got loads more seats than those two parties combined, despite having less votes (??) is just a sign of our broken and illogical electoral system.
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Yes. Which is why they were like a dog avoiding bath time when it came to a second referendum, but they weren’t afraid to have more than one general election that wasn’t due between 2016 and 2019. Despite the fact that people had “already decided” what they wanted their government to be, and so it was undemocratic to keep having more elections until they got the result that they wanted. That was their own argument as to why a second referendum would be naughty and bad - you can’t keep making people vote again because it didn’t suit the last time. Apparently.

They knew what would most likely happen if there were a second referendum, but they also knew that because of the way the electoral system works, they could win seats in a GE purely by taking all of one side of the argument, while several other parties split the vote on the other side of it. As I said earlier, you can win a seat in a general election with 40% of the vote in a constituency (not even in some cases), purely because you get all of Side A while Side B split their votes across several options, thus losing the seat. The hard facts and the numbers are there if you look at the popular vote of the last GE (you can even throw the EU elections in for a laugh if you like), and if you want to make claims about the ‘mood of the nation’ then given the referendum was apparently reflective of exactly that - it was expressed via a method of one vote, for or against, and adding them all up at the end - then you can’t suddenly move the goalposts if you want to claim nothing has changed. The general election was a single issue election, and the number of people who voted for ‘remain / second ref’ parties versus those who voted for ‘leave’ parties is there in black and white. The trouble is, 99% of one side went entirely for one party, and the other side split across multiple options in various ways up and down the country. That’s the way the system works, and that’s why they wanted another GE desperately last year but would never, ever have stood for any form of second referendum. If you make a general election about one single topic, and you are the only player on your side of the argument, you are very likely to win even if only 40% or so of the country is on your side. It’s no more complex.

How it went was tactically sound - checkmate, goodnight, got ‘em. Nobody can say it didn’t work, but they also can’t claim it means something it doesn’t. If someone wants to pretend that a popular vote is irrelevant in terms of validating a popular vote - and that’s all the referendum was, so that’s the only way you can measure it in terms of who thinks or wants what later on - they’re either incredibly disingenuous or too stupid to realise they’re comparing apples to oranges.

As I said before, absolutely nothing wrong with a smash and grab win. Greece circa 2004 will tell you that - they’re the ones with the medals and the trophy. It was a moment in time, and it was theirs. You’d think winning would be enough.
 
Referendum result: 52 leave/48 remain (give or take a decimal place)
Extrapolated to leave/remain constituencies: 410 leave seats and 240 remain seats.

Very easy to make the argument that leave was confirmed by a GE when it is stacked like that. In fact it is surprising the Tory majority was as small as it was, given the clear open goal they were shooting at!
 
stokeu said:
aahh the deal which adds 0.07% to GDP and delivers more benefit to Japan than it does us, blessed are the cheesemakers (well in 2035 they will be), assuming Japan can overcome it's national lacto intolerance
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It's all about the headline. Don't delve too far into the detail.
 
Yeah but the BBC should be a government propaganda machine where this kind of story should be shouted from the rooftops with Rule Britannia playing in the background, silly.
 
How does it stack up to the deal Japan did with the EU last year?

What a shame we're now in direct competition with them for market share....hey-ho.

On the plus side, I guess the Whiskey industry will be pleased given that Japan is a major market (until most of the industry leave the UK, that is).
 
Working for a Japanese company, I'd like to say 'thank god for that'. Now we just need some sort of bloody deal with the EU so we can get stuff across from our 2 European factories then we may ride this out OK.
 
stokeu said:
They did before you posted

www.bbc.co.uk

Britain and Japan sign post-Brexit trade deal

The countries formally sign a deal described by the UK's international trade secretary as "ground-breaking".
www.bbc.co.uk
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Couldn't find it when I was looking on the "home" and "news" screens earlier though I see it was hidden away in business. Now it has made its way up onto the "news" section.

The BBC have got more important news up on their home page. A rise in calls to cosmetic clinics since lockdown, a review of the new Borat movie, and an article about a family who decided to sell their possessions and live in a van.

Who said journalism was dead?
 
bashamwonderland said:
Couldn't find it when I was looking on the "home" and "news" screens earlier though I see it was hidden away in business. Now it has made its way up onto the "news" section.

The BBC have got more important news up on their home page. A rise in calls to cosmetic clinics since lockdown, a review of the new Borat movie, and an article about a family who decided to sell their possessions and live in a van.

Who said journalism was dead?
Click to expand...

Well you've got to look your best if you're watching Borat, and where better to watch him from than a van?
 
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