National News Brexit 31/1/20

Essexyellows

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People who think 56 migrants arriving by boat is an outrage, think 87 people dying of covid on the same day is insignificant

Lets compare apples and pears shall we?

Those 56 illegal migrants have passed through at least 4 or more safe countries to get here. Ask yourself why.
Locally a 5 day operation by the police has seen 30 foreign nationals arrested, everything from wanted for murder to cannabis farming and they even found £360k in cash in one car I doubt it was the proceeds of honest, taxable income.
Of those 30 arrested 23 are also being investigated for immigration offences.

87 people died with Covid, very few people die of Covid. There is a difference.
 

werthersoriginal

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Lets compare apples and pears shall we?

Those 56 illegal migrants have passed through at least 4 or more safe countries to get here. Ask yourself why.
Locally a 5 day operation by the police has seen 30 foreign nationals arrested, everything from wanted for murder to cannabis farming and they even found £360k in cash in one car I doubt it was the proceeds of honest, taxable income.
Of those 30 arrested 23 are also being investigated for immigration offences.

87 people died with Covid, very few people die of Covid. There is a difference.
You’re a Covid denier?? I thought you were a hospital porter or something.
 

Essexyellows

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You’re a Covid denier?? I thought you were a hospital porter or something.

No I am not a "Covid denier" thank you, and I have moved up the tree a fair bit since the trolley pushing days in 2005 by taking the many opportunities that become available.
The majority of Covid deaths have contributory factors or co-morbidities such as cardio-respiratory issues, diabetes, obesity, vascular dementia etc.
 

Leysboy

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I like the sound of this Australian style trade deal. Essentially means No deal!
It’s exactly what I voted for all along, and I’m glad Boris has got the guts to go with it. Let’s hope there’s not a u turn and another extension.
 

Navegante

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Clearly a "No-Deal" is the worst outcome. It would hurt the EU & devastate the UK economy.

What we are witnessing now is basically a play to the galleries: a few pieces of red meat thrown out to placate the Brexiteers. Reading some of the comments above, it's working...

The EU is, in effect, giving No. 10 a platform to climb-down whilst retaining political face. There will be a fudge at some point...

I'm watching Farage closely: if he starts getting shrill, you know BoJo has sold the Brexiteers out (Remainers naturally long since sold down the river...)
 

Sheik djibouti

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From the looks of that, "Leave the European Union but only with a preferential deal securing access to some of our favourite features of EU membership" was never an option.

No deal was the option!! Glad it's finally a reality.
Nobody, but nobody trying to persuade people to vote to leave campaigned on a platform of No Deal....not even Herr Farage (as well you know).

If the Leave campaign had been honest and said from the outset that leaving without a deal was their aim then I am fairly confident they would have been rather embarrassed by the Referendum result.

So either they intentionally mislead the public on their aims, or they are not getting what they were aiming for. They are either liars, failures or fantasists and not really the kind of people you want running the show with that level of deceit/incompetence....but hey, the people hath spake and duly they do run the show and therefore we will reap that whirlwind soon enough.

Meanwhile, more people who know more about their respective industries than the people negotiating their futures have spoken up: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-thin-eu-deal-will-cause-major-economic-upset
 

Leysboy

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This might help with the options that were given.............
View attachment 4813
That’s exactly how I remember it when I voted. Nothing to do with having some sort of deal attached, and nobody that voted expected a deal. Leave meant Leave, and the people that voted knew that. They voted for a number of reasons ie immigration being a massive factor! Being able to control our own fisheries/waters, and be self governing, make our own rules and trade deals with whoever we want.

People can speculate saying it’s the worst outcome leaving with No deal, and bad for the economy! but the truth is they have no bloody idea. Let’s wait until we’ve actually left with a no deal and find out. Then the remainers can come on here and say I told you so. At the same time I’d expect the remainers to come on here, and say wow didn’t think it was going to be this good away from the EU.
 

Sheik djibouti

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That’s exactly how I remember it when I voted. Nothing to do with having some sort of deal attached, and nobody that voted expected a deal. Leave meant Leave, and the people that voted knew that. They voted for a number of reasons ie immigration being a massive factor! Being able to control our own fisheries/waters, and be self governing, make our own rules and trade deals with whoever we want.

People can speculate saying it’s the worst outcome leaving with No deal, and bad for the economy! but the truth is they have no bloody idea. Let’s wait until we’ve actually left with a no deal and find out. Then the remainers can come on here and say I told you so. At the same time I’d expect the remainers to come on here, and say wow didn’t think it was going to be this good away from the EU.
So are you saying that less than 2% of those who voted leave wanted to leave with a deal and all of the rest wanted no deal?
 

Leysboy

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So are you saying that less than 2% of those who voted leave wanted to leave with a deal and all of the rest wanted no deal?

Im saying that everyone who voted to Leave, voted to leave. Nothing to do with having a deal! It’s was never an option on the ballot paper. It was never said that if you vote leave we will try to get a deal of some sort. The people that voted in that referendum knew what they were voting for.
 

m

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Im saying that everyone who voted to Leave, voted to leave. Nothing to do with having a deal! It’s was never an option on the ballot paper. It was never said that if you vote leave we will try to get a deal of some sort. The people that voted in that referendum knew what they were voting for.

That's just an outright lie.
 

Essexyellows

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That's just an outright lie.

Did you read the ballot paper question?
Remain or Leave........... the "deal" part of it was post the result.
If there isn`t one then so be it.

Of course there will be a fudge so everyone saves face, it will drag on for decades and both remainers & leavers will say "its not what we voted for"... .
 

m

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Did you read the ballot paper question?
Remain or Leave........... the "deal" part of it was post the result.
If there isn`t one then so be it.

Of course there will be a fudge so everyone saves face, it will drag on for decades and both remainers & leavers will say "its not what we voted for"... .

Indeed, the ballot question was very simple and mentioned nothing of a deal.

Are you telling me that no-one campaigning for Brexit ever mentioned the possibility of a deal at any point though?

Because that's the lie I'm objecting to.
 

Sheik djibouti

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So you are absolutely confident that EVERYONE who voted to leave did so on the understanding that No Deal would be the outcome?........riiiiiight.

That's a rather fantastic (and dare I say revisionist) view of reality and the last 6 or so years :LOL:
 

Sarge

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Wasnt Dom's puppet , Bojo, banging on about an 'oven ready deal' ( re Brexit) about a year and a bit ago? :unsure: :rolleyes:

a whopper of a porkie that was ... but there's been so many out n out lies tumbling out of the buffoons mouth its hard to keep up with how many he has spewed out in under 12 months ( that's disregarding all of the ones before he became PM):rolleyes:
 

bashamwonderland

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Nobody, but nobody trying to persuade people to vote to leave campaigned on a platform of No Deal....not even Herr Farage (as well you know).

If the Leave campaign had been honest and said from the outset that leaving without a deal was their aim then I am fairly confident they would have been rather embarrassed by the Referendum result.

So either they intentionally mislead the public on their aims, or they are not getting what they were aiming for. They are either liars, failures or fantasists and not really the kind of people you want running the show with that level of deceit/incompetence....but hey, the people hath spake and duly they do run the show and therefore we will reap that whirlwind soon enough.

Meanwhile, more people who know more about their respective industries than the people negotiating their futures have spoken up: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-thin-eu-deal-will-cause-major-economic-upset
Equally nobody was guaranteed a deal and common sense dictates that nobody voted on the belief that a deal was already secured. So the possibility of not getting a deal was understood, just in the same respect that people buying a scratch card understand that they might receive a monetary gain but do not expect the win on purchasing said scratch card.

You might be "fairly confident" that the results would have been different if a no deal campaign was run but that's completely hypothetical opinion. I'm sure in 2016 you were "fairly confident" Hillary would beat Trump, just as everybody was. Doesn't mean you're right.

We've been hearing "you'll know how bad it is going to be soon enough" for 4 years now. Oddly, we haven't yet seen how bad it's going to be and some considerable amount of water has passed under the bridge.

Can you tell me exactly when we'll understand just how stupid this decision was?? Like on what date will it all be clear to everyone? Because "soon enough" doesn't seem to be happening.
 

m

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Equally nobody was guaranteed a deal and common sense dictates that nobody voted on the belief that a deal was already secured. So the possibility of not getting a deal was understood, just in the same respect that people buying a scratch card understand that they might receive a monetary gain but do not expect the win on purchasing said scratch card.

You might be "fairly confident" that the results would have been different if a no deal campaign was run but that's completely hypothetical opinion. I'm sure in 2016 you were "fairly confident" Hillary would beat Trump, just as everybody was. Doesn't mean you're right.

We've been hearing "you'll know how bad it is going to be soon enough" for 4 years now. Oddly, we haven't yet seen how bad it's going to be and some considerable amount of water has passed under the bridge.

Can you tell me exactly when we'll understand just how stupid this decision was?? Like on what date will it all be clear to everyone? Because "soon enough" doesn't seem to be happening.

Agree with much of what you've written there.

I would like a no-deal advocate to explain the logic to me though.

As I see it we will have to strike a trade deal with the EU at some point. Why wouldn't we try to do that now?
 

Pillox

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Equally nobody was guaranteed a deal and common sense dictates that nobody voted on the belief that a deal was already secured. So the possibility of not getting a deal was understood, just in the same respect that people buying a scratch card understand that they might receive a monetary gain but do not expect the win on purchasing said scratch card.
Massively overestimating people there im afraid. In the same way that Cameron massively underestimated them when he agreed to the referendum in the first place and then ran a f*****g mile when the result came in.

Seemed pretty obvious in the days and weeks that followed that leavers in washington, swindon etc had no clue of the real world implications of what they were voting for, never mind the probability of a no deal.
 

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