National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

[MC Yellow]

You’re right, posting on here about such issues is going to have a very limited reach. But I have to say, this forum is one of the rare corners of the internet where you can have discussions about such subjects in a mostly respectful way (in most cases lol).
That’s the power of a common interest.

It is an excellent forum in that respect when you compare it to some of the other football forums.

But we are “Oxford“ after all .

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Continuing to attract the brightest and best, post Brexit......

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-winning-scientists-receives-no-applications/

 

[Essexyellows]

Continuing to attract the brightest and best, post Brexit......

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-winning-scientists-receives-no-applications/

Couple of snippets to help you from the article linked...............

"Andrew Clark at the Royal Academy of Engineering says his organisation is happy with the number of applications they have seen recently across all immigration routes for foreign scientists. “In many cases applicants would be eligible for multiple routes,” he says. “We wouldn’t want to focus on the use of any particular route over a six-month period, but rather the overall success.”

"The idea of prioritising entry to the UK for science award winners is flawed, according to geoscientist Christopher Jackson at the University of Manchester,
ackson says these awards are inherently biased and an immigration system based on them will only replicate science’s lack of diversity."

“How we measure excellence is very nebulous,” says Jackson. “These awards favour certain people – those who are white, male, heterosexual, cis-gendered – and reward them based on their privilege.”

Can`t be having it both ways eh?

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Couple of snippets to help you from the article linked...............

"Andrew Clark at the Royal Academy of Engineering says his organisation is happy with the number of applications they have seen recently across all immigration routes for foreign scientists. “In many cases applicants would be eligible for multiple routes,” he says. “We wouldn’t want to focus on the use of any particular route over a six-month period, but rather the overall success.”

"The idea of prioritising entry to the UK for science award winners is flawed, according to geoscientist Christopher Jackson at the University of Manchester,
ackson says these awards are inherently biased and an immigration system based on them will only replicate science’s lack of diversity."

“How we measure excellence is very nebulous,” says Jackson. “These awards favour certain people – those who are white, male, heterosexual, cis-gendered – and reward them based on their privilege.”

Can`t be having it both ways eh?

So are you saying this was yet another ill-conceived idea from perhaps the most incompetent government in living history?

Over-promise and under-deliver is no way to govern a country, despite the best efforts of the last few years.

 

[Essexyellows]

So are you saying this was yet another ill-conceived idea from perhaps the most incompetent government in living history?

Over-promise and under-deliver is no way to govern a country, despite the best efforts of the last few years.

I`m saying it was one of many avenues those people could have used although any who followed that particular route would, as identified by others, have had exceptional privilege and nobody likes that anymore do they?

The article highlighted that nobody is struggling to recruit suitably skilled people using the systems that are in place so its just a cherry on a cake to have another avenue - gold standard if you like rather than "incompetence".

 

[Sheik djibouti]

I`m saying it was one of many avenues those people could have used although any who followed that particular route would, as identified by others, have had exceptional privilege and nobody likes that anymore do they?

The article highlighted that nobody is struggling to recruit suitably skilled people using the systems that are in place so its just a cherry on a cake to have another avenue - gold standard if you like rather than "incompetence".

Have it your way.

If it looks like incompetence....and people who know what they are talking about tell you it is a joke, then the chances are it is incompetence.

OR to put it another way:

“The government thinks if you pump up UK science with a verbal diarrhea of optimism – it can somehow become a self-fulfilling prophecy.”

 

[Essexyellows]

Have it your way.

If it looks like incompetence....and people who know what they are talking about tell you it is a joke, then the chances are it is incompetence.

OR to put it another way:

“The government thinks if you pump up UK science with a verbal diarrhea of optimism – it can somehow become a self-fulfilling prophecy.”

And if it was the only route you would be calling it out for elitism, racism, privilege, and many other biases............

 

[Sheik djibouti]

And if it was the only route you would be calling it out for elitism, racism, privilege, and many other biases............

Hardly - because it being the only route is utter pie in the sky and frankly for the birds (or should that be unicorns)

It was a completely unnecessary thing to do, but not surprising from a government that didn't have the first idea what "getting Brexit done" would actually mean...and heaven forfend that they might consult people who know what they are talking about

Just more flag-waving embarrassing bullshit from this government......

 

[Essexyellows]

Hardly - because it being the only route is utter pie in the sky and frankly for the birds (or should that be unicorns)

It was a completely unnecessary thing to do, but not surprising from a government that didn't have the first idea what "getting Brexit done" would actually mean...and heaven forfend that they might consult people who know what they are talking about

Just more flag-waving embarrassing bullshit from this government......

Only got to wait until May 2024............

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Only got to wait until May 2024............

Yep...and I'm sure you;ll continue to apolgise and enable all the way....if you're still with us, that is

 

[MC Yellow]

Only got to wait until May 2024............

Can’t wait.

Decisions, decisions

 

[Essexyellows]

See what happens when coalitions get into power - it never ends well.

Sweden's first female PM resigns hours after appointment

Magdalena Andersson resigns after her coalition partner quit the government in a row over the budget.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[chuckbert]

See what happens when coalitions get into power - it never ends well.

Sweden's first female PM resigns hours after appointment

Magdalena Andersson resigns after her coalition partner quit the government in a row over the budget.

www.bbc.co.uk

It looks like an excellent example of representation. Better than the “shut up you lost. my minority got a Mandate donchaknow” train crash of Westminster.

 

[Essexyellows]

It looks like an excellent example of representation. Better than the “shut up you lost. my minority got a Mandate donchaknow” train crash of Westminster.

It gets nothing done just eternal stalemate - see the 4 years wasted to implement the decision of the electorate.

 

[Oslernorth]

It gets nothing done just eternal stalemate - see the 4 years wasted to implement the decision of the electorate.

But that was with the first past the post system??
It also highlights the problem of having a referendum in the first place. Should the result superseded our elected representation in Parliament? If it does, then what’s the point in Parliament?

 

[chuckbert]

It gets nothing done just eternal stalemate - see the 4 years wasted to implement the decision of the electorate.

I think there’s a case that the less representative the govt, the less gets done. The two poster children in recent years are the US and Britain.

 

[Essexyellows]

But that was with the first past the post system??
It also highlights the problem of having a referendum in the first place. Should the result superseded our elected representation in Parliament? If it does, then what’s the point in Parliament?

Some structural questions are worthy of our decision rather than those we elect.

Had the decision been made by Parliament then it would not have been truly representative of the wishes of the electorate.

There is a very interesting datasheet out on the web that breaks the vote down by Parliamentary constituency, rather than the voting regions used, and in Leicester West the estimate (+/-) was 51% Leave. Yet the MP would have voted to Remain, not representing the majority of her constituents and that would have been undemocratic.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Some structural questions are worthy of our decision rather than those we elect.

Had the decision been made by Parliament then it would not have been truly representative of the wishes of the electorate.

There is a very interesting datasheet out on the web that breaks the vote down by Parliamentary constituency, rather than the voting regions used, and in Leicester West the estimate (+/-) was 51% Leave. Yet the MP would have voted to Remain, not representing the majority of her constituents and that would have been undemocratic.

But MPs often win those said constituencies on a lesser share of the vote, and certainly not a majority of the electorate, so I'm not sure what the point is here.

But duly elected they are and as an electorate we should have an expectation that they fairly represent all their constituents, regardless whether they voted for them or not.

Of course in reality they don't but that's democracy for you[emoji1745] If you didn't vote for the winner, don't expect to be represented[emoji6]

What the decision did was give parliament and the government licence to deliver whatever vision of Brexit they saw fit.....whether that chimes with what the 51.8% were expecting is a moot point.....but that's democracy for you[emoji106]

 

[Oslernorth]

Some structural questions are worthy of our decision rather than those we elect.

Had the decision been made by Parliament then it would not have been truly representative of the wishes of the electorate.

There is a very interesting datasheet out on the web that breaks the vote down by Parliamentary constituency, rather than the voting regions used, and in Leicester West the estimate (+/-) was 51% Leave. Yet the MP would have voted to Remain, not representing the majority of her constituents and that would have been undemocratic.

I disagree. Your MP acts in your best interest, it has nothing to do with your best wishes. That’s the whole point of a representative system. You delicate someone to make informed decisions on your behalf with more information than you or I have access too.

I can’t think of any structural questions where the public are more informed than a Member of Parliament.

Which structural questions did you have in mind?

 

[Oxymoron]

In the near 50 years since I became of voting age, I have been "represented" by three MP's; Michael Hesltine, Boris Johnson and John Howell - never voted for any of them in the dozen or so polls we've had.

Hestletine would engage locally but it was all a bit beneath him, Boris was actually the best of the bunch when it came to getting involved in local issues with regular local surgeries and follow ups. Howell is the original "monkey in a suit with a blue rosette", he has visited the parish just once since he took office in 2008, at a rather hostile meeting about excessive housing development, promised the moon and has been "unable to attend" since that time and deflected all correspondence to "the relevant authority".

That's not acting in our interest, that's ducking his responsibilities and deferring to the party line. Remind me how I can replace him with someone more akin to the best interests of my kids and grandkids - I fear it's too late for me to get representation.....