National News The Brexit Thread πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡Ί

Dom is a real master manipulator and very "off the wall", read his blog to learn more if you wish.

I voted to leave, it`s no secret.

Why did I vote that way? In a very condensed one line summary:

"My greatest concern was the way the "original" Common Market (trade) has evolved along it`s path towards becoming a European Super State."

Nothing to do with buses or "taking back control" it was more aligned to stepping away from the direction of travel and a lot of people thought the same.
 
My greatest concern was the way the "original" Common Market (trade) has evolved along it`s path towards becoming a European Super State."

Nothing to do with buses or "taking back control" it was more aligned to stepping away from the direction of travel and a lot of people thought the same.
Ah, so you didn't like foreigners making decisions for you, so you wanted us to walk away and take back control. Got it πŸ˜‰
 
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Dom is a real master manipulator and very "off the wall", read his blog to learn more if you wish.

I voted to leave, it`s no secret.

Why did I vote that way? In a very condensed one line summary:

"My greatest concern was the way the "original" Common Market (trade) has evolved along it`s path towards becoming a European Super State."

Nothing to do with buses or "taking back control" it was more aligned to stepping away from the direction of travel and a lot of people thought the same.
I fully understood your concerns, but to then turn into economic lemmings for a point of principle to me is absurd. Personally, we never as a nation took the EU serious, so we just pandered to Brussels. We only ever managed to get 30% to vote in its elections despite the fact they were as if not more important than the UK elections.
My position was you should fight within because the tide against the political dogma was and still is changing. What we have done is blunted our ability to sustain economic growth for a significant period of time. That is even more stark in this pandemic. When the furlough scheme ends, UK unemployment will most likely be around 10% and with no real prospect of falling. The really sad endictment is those jobs are primary effecting the young, and that potentially means another lost generation.
 
Ah, so you didn't like foreigners making decisions for you, so you wanted us to walk away and take back control. Got it πŸ˜‰

Not what I said. You aren`t old enough to appreciate both the change and direction of travel over time. ;) πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§
 
I fully understood your concerns, but to then turn into economic lemmings for a point of principle to me is absurd. Personally, we never as a nation took the EU serious, so we just pandered to Brussels. We only ever managed to get 30% to vote in its elections despite the fact they were as if not more important than the UK elections.
My position was you should fight within because the tide against the political dogma was and still is changing. What we have done is blunted our ability to sustain economic growth for a significant period of time. That is even more stark in this pandemic. When the furlough scheme ends, UK unemployment will most likely be around 10% and with no real prospect of falling. The really sad endictment is those jobs are primary effecting the young, and that potentially means another lost generation.

Correct we had a very weak relationship with the EU electoral process and it created lots of jobs for failed politicians on the gravy train, another good reason to sack it off. :)
The pandemic is a different ball game, one that is already showing that the EU isn`t all that and "little britain" can get on with things.
We may have blunted part of the economic growth but recent events have certainly taught us what is essential and what matters.
A level of freedom could also see us recovering faster .... interesting times.
 
The pandemic is a different ball game, one that is already showing that the EU isn`t all that and "little britain" can get on with things.

I mean surely for the most part, all the EU members have acted pretty independently in their response to Covid? There's certainly been no unified response to the crisis - Sweden most certainly did not take the same tack as Spain. Seems to me that the EU has behaved almost exactly the opposite of the European Super State that you feared, and much more like a loose collective. In fact, most of the complaints I've read are that the EU member states did not coordinate enough.

The one area they did coordinate was over vaccine supplies, and it seems as if AstraZeneca & Pfizer have well and truly screwed them over there!
 
I mean surely for the most part, all the EU members have acted pretty independently in their response to Covid? There's certainly been no unified response to the crisis - Sweden most certainly did not take the same tack as Spain. Seems to me that the EU has behaved almost exactly the opposite of the European Super State that you feared, and much more like a loose collective. In fact, most of the complaints I've read are that the EU member states did not coordinate enough.

The one area they did coordinate was over vaccine supplies, and it seems as if AstraZeneca & Pfizer have well and truly screwed them over there!

The response has been by country as they are all in different positions with borders etc.
When it comes to vaccines the EU member states have had their hands forced by the delay caused by............... the EU.
The EU have yet to approve the AZ jab and are now "demanding" UK stock.

Getting 27 countries to agree is difficult at best, even more so when the brown stuff is hitting the fan at a rate of knots!
Hungary have gone to Russia, France are waiting for Sanofi to start production.

In the meantime we have vaccinated 7.5 million people. :)
 
When it comes to vaccines the EU member states have had their hands forced by the delay caused by............... the EU.
The EU have yet to approve the AZ jab and are now "demanding" UK stock.

No - despite not having yet approved the AZ jab, they have already ordered 300 million doses from them, anticipating that they will have approved it by next week.

But AZ's Belgian factory has messed up the scale up, meaning that AZ are not going to be able to fulfill the order.

AZ's UK factory has worked swimmingly, meaning that the UK's supplies have been unaffected. Which is why the EU are now asking for some of that!
 
With the row now erupting between the U.K. and the EU over the distribution of the AstroZeneca vaccine and the reasoning over the other vaccines it’s starting to show how bad the EU is?
 
No - despite not having yet approved the AZ jab, they have already ordered 300 million doses from them, anticipating that they will have approved it by next week.

But AZ's Belgian factory has messed up the scale up, meaning that AZ are not going to be able to fulfill the order.

AZ's UK factory has worked swimmingly, meaning that the UK's supplies have been unaffected. Which is why the EU are now asking for some of that!

AZ are probably scrabbling through the "lengthy" EU contract looking for the escape hatch.
It`ll be easy in NHS terms it`s under the force majeure terms: "21.1.2 pandemic or epidemic"
Effectively it can take all the cards off the table when things get difficult.
We`ve activated it across almost all our contracts as Provider and Commissioner of services.
 
No - despite not having yet approved the AZ jab, they have already ordered 300 million doses from them, anticipating that they will have approved it by next week.

But AZ's Belgian factory has messed up the scale up, meaning that AZ are not going to be able to fulfill the order.

AZ's UK factory has worked swimmingly, meaning that the UK's supplies have been unaffected. Which is why the EU are now asking for some of that!

The UK supply chain had issues, it is just the UK signed the contract 3 months before the EU did (and will have approved the Vaccine a fair bit beforeas well) so have worked the problems through. The EU could have signed the contract at a similar time to the UK, just as the 4 EU countries that were in the initial group were going to do and their supply chain would have been up to speed by now.
 
With the row now erupting between the U.K. and the EU over the distribution of the AstroZeneca vaccine and the reasoning over the other vaccines it’s starting to show how bad the EU is?

Look, when it comes down to it - the UK and the EU have done exactly the same thing here with regards vaccine manufacture and distribution.

They've both ordered the products well in advance of even the completion of development, let alone regulatory approval. And they've both distributed their orders across all the big pharma firms with vaccines to diversify their risk.

The difference is that the UK did it a little quicker. Which, if you're a strong proponent of Brexit, is what you should point to. One country can move faster than 27.


Course the row is now what happens because AstraZeneca cannot fulfill the contracted orders.

And, although the contract is not being released publicly, it does sound like AZ said that the UK facilities would be a primary manufacturing site for the EU order. So I'm guessing (as usual) there's going to be a lot of lawyers making a lot of money out of this one very soon.
 
Look, when it comes down to it - the UK and the EU have done exactly the same thing here with regards vaccine manufacture and distribution.

They've both ordered the products well in advance of even the completion of development, let alone regulatory approval. And they've both distributed their orders across all the big pharma firms with vaccines to diversify their risk.

The difference is that the UK did it a little quicker. Which, if you're a strong proponent of Brexit, is what you should point to. One country can move faster than 27.


Course the row is now what happens because AstraZeneca cannot fulfill the contracted orders.

And, although the contract is not being released publicly, it does sound like AZ said that the UK facilities would be a primary manufacturing site for the EU order. So I'm guessing (as usual) there's going to be a lot of lawyers making a lot of money out of this one very soon.

They will fulfil the contracted order in terms of doses supplied. The dispute is really the timing of supply with the EU saying a certain number would be supplied by a certain date including UK production, whilst AZ are saying they didn't agree to a guaranteed amount by a certain date but they would do their best to provide that. Further AZ have pointed out that the UK Govt in their earlier contract have included that the UK get a minimum number of doses* before UK production is distributed elsewhere in addition to the UK as well.

*Don't think it was specified in the articles I read but it was many millions of doses iirc.
 
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Lets all laugh at plodders in the EU.....throwing their toys out of the pram,they couldnt organise a p1ssup in a brewery.....only last week they were slagging off the oxford vaccine saying it wasnt effective......bunchve idiots ......
 
Exactly. It was put on the bus to mislead people.
It was put on the bus to suggest to people what the money we waste on the EU could be used for......ie: a.......... S-U-G-G-E-S-T-I-O-N......comprende' ?? if stupid people get mislead by a suggestion...well....tough titty.
 
They will fulfil the contracted order in terms of doses supplied. The dispute is really the timing of supply with the EU saying a certain number would be supplied by a certain date including UK production, whilst AZ are saying they didn't agree to a guaranteed amount by a certain date but they would do their best to provide that. Further AZ have pointed out that the UK Govt in their earlier contract have included that the UK get a minimum number of doses* before UK production is distributed elsewhere in addition to the UK as well.

*Don't think it was specified in the articles I read but it was many millions of doses iirc.

Although, the rumors (admittedly coming out of the EU side) suggest that - up until a few days ago - there was vaccine still being bottled in Germany and shipped to the UK to make sure that they could keep up with the UK order!

Anyways, you're absolutely right - the key to the dispute is exactly what is said in both the AZ-EU and AZ-UK contracts. And given that neither is public, it's impossible to make a definitive statement. But if there is a 'best efforts' clause in the EU contract, the lawyers will be salivating!
 
Look, when it comes down to it - the UK and the EU have done exactly the same thing here with regards vaccine manufacture and distribution.

They've both ordered the products well in advance of even the completion of development, let alone regulatory approval. And they've both distributed their orders across all the big pharma firms with vaccines to diversify their risk.

The difference is that the UK did it a little quicker. Which, if you're a strong proponent of Brexit, is what you should point to. One country can move faster than 27.


Course the row is now what happens because AstraZeneca cannot fulfill the contracted orders.

And, although the contract is not being released publicly, it does sound like AZ said that the UK facilities would be a primary manufacturing site for the EU order. So I'm guessing (as usual) there's going to be a lot of lawyers making a lot of money out of this one very soon.
But the vaccine being made in the EU is the same here regarding orders so the U.K. can’t be the only ones to be blamed.
 
It was put on the bus to suggest to people what the money we waste on the EU could be used for......ie: a.......... S-U-G-G-E-S-T-I-O-N......comprende' ?? if stupid people get mislead by a suggestion...well....tough titty.
I see ethics doesnt come high in your priorities. Not a great surprise, just rip off any unfortunate that gets in the way.
 
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