National News Boris Johnson - Ousted Former PM

Means 66.65 million didn`t say it would be easy...................

If you want to play Simple Simon. :rolleyes:

If it hits No Deal then so be it, the world will still turn, folk will still wake up life will carry on because £££`s says so. Reality of life.... follow the money.

The problem is those in power who are now negotiating did suggest it would be easy at various times.
 
The public were (finally!) asked their opinion of something that has changed massively over time with no direct input from the electorate and they gave their answer.
This was ultimately the issue with the referendum in the first place - you’ve actually provided the perfect argument against it in a single sentence. A load of people (the overwhelming majority of the public), who had little to absolutely no understanding of what something was or how it now functioned, were asked whether to let it be or crash it into the side of a mountain. They may as well have dragged people from the hospital hallway into operating theatres, given them a scalpel and insisted that they carry out operations for which they have no basic training of any kind. It was kind of the same thing. I wouldn’t expect an airline to stick me in the cockpit and demand that I land the plane, I would expect the pilot to do it. If the pilot is crap we can vote to change the pilot, that’s fine, but at no point should the passengers be given the controls. That’s the main difference between an election and a referendum, for me. It was stupid to have one, and it was beyond stupid to have it as simplified as in or out. The people who established the ‘rules’ don’t get enough flack as far as I’m concerned. How they could reduce an issue so complex to something as simple as that is beyond me. They should be bloody shot.

And believe me, I firmly count myself in that camp when I talk about people who didn’t really get it all. There is so much I don’t know and understand about an awful lot in life, including the detailed ins and outs of every last aspect of the European Union. So instead, what I asked myself was, “Okay, what will definitely get better and how if I do this?” That’s all it came down to. Nobody gave me an answer beyond slogans and bluster, which was based on nothing more than hoping and staying positive, and wishing really hard upon a star while waving a miniature Union Jack. So I let it ride, because what was I actually voting to change otherwise? I made a choice between a reality that I knew existed, because I already lived in it, and the political equivalent of a child’s Christmas list that nobody could actually agree on, or guarantee would be possible. To this day, nobody has told me what they’ve been able to do ever since this whole process started that they couldn’t do before, but there are a number of things that some people can’t or won’t be able to do as of January 1, 2021. People’s lives not changing at all, or only being slightly worse, means it was a con. Lots and lots of people - regular, everyday people - should be able to say how their lives have markedly improved in the past four years. Or they should at least be pointing firmly at something concrete that is due to kick in next year, and go, “That. That’s going to genuinely change my life for the better.” That people fought tooth and nail to stop others having the chance to change their mind after seeing what was actually in the mystery box, will forever be one of the greatest stains on our society. It was like someone slashing their wrists and then being pinned down by a group of people while they bled out, even though it was clear they wanted to bandage it up and try to stop the bleeding.

As for Boris, since this thread is ultimately meant to be about him, he’s just a charlatan who will potentially end up satisfying nobody. I truly believe there is every chance that Sunak has already been crowned behind the scenes. Let the clown choke himself so it can all be blamed on him, but ultimately ensure that Brexit is messy enough that the disaster capitalists get the shorting that they’ve wanted all along, and then put him out to pasture. Then point at Sunak as the friendly furlough man who was nice to people when the virus was being naughty, and have him go against Starmer in an attempt to neutralise the tone of the conversation.

It all smells of bum bum, as my niece used to say. Wise words!
 
Not if they can't get their insulin they may not.
Novo Nordisk (worlds largest manufacturer of insulin) has plants in US,Brazil,Russia, China & Japan (none of which are in the EU).
Lilly (second largest UK supplier of insulin) has plants in US, Peurto Rico & China. (non-EU)
Sanofi has plants in the UK, Russia, India, China & Saudi Arabia. (non-EU)
Wockhardt even have an animal insulin plant in Wrexham... although there are not many human users of this derivative.

And in April 2020 several European countries stopped exporting insulin because of Covid............ and NOBODY noticed.
 
This was ultimately the issue with the referendum in the first place - you’ve actually provided the perfect argument against it in a single sentence. A load of people (the overwhelming majority of the public), who had little to absolutely no understanding of what something was or how it now functioned, were asked whether to let it be or crash it into the side of a mountain. They may as well have dragged people from the hospital hallway into operating theatres, given them a scalpel and insisted that they carry out operations for which they have no basic training of any kind. It was kind of the same thing. I wouldn’t expect an airline to stick me in the cockpit and demand that I land the plane, I would expect the pilot to do it. If the pilot is crap we can vote to change the pilot, that’s fine, but at no point should the passengers be given the controls. That’s the main difference between an election and a referendum, for me. It was stupid to have one, and it was beyond stupid to have it as simplified as in or out. The people who established the ‘rules’ don’t get enough flack as far as I’m concerned. How they could reduce an issue so complex to something as simple as that is beyond me. They should be bloody shot.

And believe me, I firmly count myself in that camp when I talk about people who didn’t really get it all. There is so much I don’t know and understand about an awful lot in life, including the detailed ins and outs of every last aspect of the European Union. So instead, what I asked myself was, “Okay, what will definitely get better and how if I do this?” That’s all it came down to. Nobody gave me an answer beyond slogans and bluster, which was based on nothing more than hoping and staying positive, and wishing really hard upon a star while waving a miniature Union Jack. So I let it ride, because what was I actually voting to change otherwise? I made a choice between a reality that I knew existed, because I already lived in it, and the political equivalent of a child’s Christmas list that nobody could actually agree on, or guarantee would be possible. To this day, nobody has told me what they’ve been able to do ever since this whole process started that they couldn’t do before, but there are a number of things that some people can’t or won’t be able to do as of January 1, 2021. People’s lives not changing at all, or only being slightly worse, means it was a con. Lots and lots of people - regular, everyday people - should be able to say how their lives have markedly improved in the past four years. Or they should at least be pointing firmly at something concrete that is due to kick in next year, and go, “That. That’s going to genuinely change my life for the better.” That people fought tooth and nail to stop others having the chance to change their mind after seeing what was actually in the mystery box, will forever be one of the greatest stains on our society. It was like someone slashing their wrists and then being pinned down by a group of people while they bled out, even though it was clear they wanted to bandage it up and try to stop the bleeding.

As for Boris, since this thread is ultimately meant to be about him, he’s just a charlatan who will potentially end up satisfying nobody. I truly believe there is every chance that Sunak has already been crowned behind the scenes. Let the clown choke himself so it can all be blamed on him, but ultimately ensure that Brexit is messy enough that the disaster capitalists get the shorting that they’ve wanted all along, and then put him out to pasture. Then point at Sunak as the friendly furlough man who was nice to people when the virus was being naughty, and have him go against Starmer in an attempt to neutralise the tone of the conversation.

It all smells of bum bum, as my niece used to say. Wise words!

To be fair I did say the referendum should have taken place much sooner than it did, for the very reasons you eloquently describe!
If Maastricht or Lisbon had gone to the people I expect the results would have been much different.
Life will not stop in Jan 2021 it will roll on as per normal we just stand in a different queue at the airport.
Agree about Sunak and bum bum !
 
Nobody said it would be "easy", the question was simple as it had to be.
Leave or Remain.
Sorry to say Leave won much to the distress of the political elite who thought it would be a cake walk to remain winning and putting the issue to bed forever.

Ask that same question now the result could well be different.

However us old fossils know the history of what happened, essentially in a "post war aware" era.

Way back in the 60s & 70s it was an obvious economic choice to join the "Big Six" of Europe as the "Club" was full of countries doing well, our trade with them was already increasing and overtaking the Commonwealth trade balance.

We weren`t that "Sick", barring having either a Labour government behest to the Unions or a weak Conservative one.

In 1974, after an election win, Wilson & Callaghan called for a fundamental renegotiation of the terms laid down in the treaties of accession previously negotiated by the Conservative delegates. There was some quarter given and it was decided to put it to the people.


So in `75 a campaign to influence public opinion began. Sorry kids this was pre the age of information. It was newspapers and one of 3 TV channels with little or no access to the details! Most voters were reliant on the question on the ballot and what was in the limited media of the day. The ballot said:

"The Government has announced the results of the renegotiation of the United Kingdom's terms of membership of the European Community.

Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)? " Yes or No.

Remain won that one and we ended up in the European Economic Community (EEC). Then 18 years later the EEC morphed into the EU under Maastricht.

Followed in 2007 by the Lisbon Treaty cementing the EU Constitution ..... or "The Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union".

Fast forward a few more years and the Club is far less exclusive and letting in members who don`t cut the mustard.

The public were (finally!) asked their opinion of something that has changed massively over time with no direct input from the electorate and they gave their answer.

In my humble both Maastricht & Lisbon should have both gone to the people but hey ho...... we are where we are.
Sure. No idea what that’s got to do with Boris being a liar, though. I would have expected that if you are invested in brexit bring the right thing, that you would want someone competent leading it that would give it a chance of being successful rather than a chancer who seems to be fumbling each aspect of implementation.
 
Sure. No idea what that’s got to do with Boris being a liar, though. I would have expected that if you are invested in brexit bring the right thing, that you would want someone competent leading it that would give it a chance of being successful rather than a chancer who seems to be fumbling each aspect of implementation.

We got who we got through the process, as previously you can`t win them all so have to live with it.
I would much rather Rory succeeded but that didn`t pan out.
C`est la vie.
 
Life will not stop in Jan 2021 it will roll on as per normal we just stand in a different queue at the airport.
So if life will just roll on as normal (and I really, really hope it does do so for the overwhelming majority in this country) what was the bloody point of this expensive, divisive farrago?
Personally, I am stockpiling bog roll as fast as I can - it's my attempt at being a 'disaster capitalist'.
 
Novo Nordisk (worlds largest manufacturer of insulin) has plants in US,Brazil,Russia, China & Japan (none of which are in the EU).
Lilly (second largest UK supplier of insulin) has plants in US, Peurto Rico & China. (non-EU)
Sanofi has plants in the UK, Russia, India, China & Saudi Arabia. (non-EU)
Wockhardt even have an animal insulin plant in Wrexham... although there are not many human users of this derivative.

And in April 2020 several European countries stopped exporting insulin because of Covid............ and NOBODY noticed.
I'm not sure telling me where insulin is produced will help alleviate fears when where we import it from is the relevant factor.
If you can tell me where we get our supplies from and as part of what trade agreement (I. E. One that will be accessible to us on 1 Jan 2021) then that would be reassuring.

Hopefully you are right and supply will be seamless come the new year.

The factory in Wrexham produces about 0.5‰ of our need.
 
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The tory brexiteers are pretty lucky in one sense that the scale of redundancies that will be attributed to Covid over the next 6months will probably dwarf and lessen those that would be caused by a crash out Brexit. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54058559 Lest we forget that one of the main reasons the UK Gov are playing hardball is under the pretence of protecting less than 20,000 jobs in the fishing industry.

So we might never know the true impact brexit alone will have...but I think it is fair to say it will not soften the impact of Covid on the economy! And who knows if or when a recovery might come as a result.

But hey...as long as the rich make more money, and those responsible can say "if it wasn't for Covid", who gives a s**t!

Oh and all this time, more "rats" are jumping ship: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54072347, partly because this government under Cummings has now made civil servants and experts the accountable and responsible scapegoats for their shoddy and shady mismanagement and partly because some of them still have some scruples and know full well that what this government are doing is amoral, shady and quite possibly illegal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54073836

And yet some are still labouring under the illusion that this type of behaviour shows our independence and strength. That it will make other nations and trade blocks respect us and WANT to do deals with us on terms that are favorable mainly to us, and far, far better than those that we are about to sacrifice (for what tangible benefit, I have yet to work out)
 
With Brexit, Boris and his pals offered us a bird in the bush against two in the hand. As a result of the clever deployment of smoke and mirrors, the public chose the bird in the bush.
 
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