National News Boris Johnson - Ousted Former PM

[RyanioBirdio]

However both "sides" have to accept "the deal" for the deal to happen so if we hold hard and the EU walk away the Government just say "It was them" (the other partner in the divorce analogy).

Indeed, but the government did agree to their end of the bargain by putting it through Westminster. So unless the EU have suddenly moved the goalposts at their end - possible, I don’t know the ins and outs - it would leave the only explanation as the UK deciding to wipe its backside with its own agreement. Which isn’t a good way to behave when you’re about to have to start trying to strike deals with every single country / trade bloc on earth, including the one you’re about to storm out of. Negotiating honestly and in good faith is rather important in this scenario. Otherwise people will be wary of dealing with you and are unlikely to give you favourable terms if they don’t trust your intentions, or your ability to actually come good on your promises. How the UK behaves during its withdrawal is absolutely critical, and will shape how the rest of the world sees it before it enters into talks with each and every corner of it.

It’s.... concerning.

 

[ubermeistervonmeat]

Indeed, but the government did agree to their end of the bargain by putting it through Westminster. So unless the EU have suddenly moved the goalposts at their end - possible, I don’t know the ins and outs - it would leave the only explanation as the UK deciding to wipe its backside with its own agreement. Which isn’t a good way to behave when you’re about to have to start trying to strike deals with every single country / trade bloc on earth, including the one you’re about to storm out of. Negotiating honestly and in good faith is rather important in this scenario. Otherwise people will be wary of dealing with you and are unlikely to give you favourable terms if they don’t trust your intentions, or your ability to actually come good on your promises. How the UK behaves during its withdrawal is absolutely critical, and will shape how the rest of the world sees it before it enters into talks with each and every corner of it.

It’s.... concerning.

true - but it is exactly what we should expect from Johnson

 

[m]

If a no deal is going to be so good for us all why are we negotiating for a deal?

This is an excellent question which deserves more attention than it will get.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Indeed, but the government did agree to their end of the bargain by putting it through Westminster. So unless the EU have suddenly moved the goalposts at their end - possible, I don’t know the ins and outs - it would leave the only explanation as the UK deciding to wipe its backside with its own agreement. Which isn’t a good way to behave when you’re about to have to start trying to strike deals with every single country / trade bloc on earth, including the one you’re about to storm out of. Negotiating honestly and in good faith is rather important in this scenario. Otherwise people will be wary of dealing with you and are unlikely to give you favourable terms if they don’t trust your intentions, or your ability to actually come good on your promises. How the UK behaves during its withdrawal is absolutely critical, and will shape how the rest of the world sees it before it enters into talks with each and every corner of it.

It’s.... concerning.

Johnson is trying to be like Trump, behave ridiculously badly in order to shift the agenda. But like everything he does it will be half baked and he’ll row back and u turn.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

This feels a little like the Nazi skit that Mitchell & Webb did a few years back.

“Are we.... are we the baddies?”

 

[Essexyellows]

If a no deal is going to be so good for us all why are we negotiating for a deal?

Back to the divorce analogy it is better to have a deal than cutting up clothes with scissors and putting a hatchet through the sofa.

The EU want what is best for them (££££`s mostly- net contributor) whereas the UK would prefer to cancel the membership and not pay the direct debit for decades.
There are 10 net contributors and 18 taking out more than they put in, so the EU really needs to cut a deal or the whole charade/project will collapse or other nations will have a fairly big gap to fill.
Being old enough to remember us joining, and irrespective of whatever someone digs from the archive, it was pitched as a Trading bloc, freedom of trade across neighbouring nations, all good, all positive. The detail of what it was going to become was never clearly spelt out.
However it has now morphed into a project of the "United States of Europe" made up of the various nations.
Had it remained a pure trading bloc, based on good standards and fairness, and not hobbled/interfered/influenced nations decision making processes and governance framework we would probably have remained.
When it comes to no deal that has to be an option as a last resort, "they" have had enough time to sort it out and have a clear time frame to work too.

 

[Steve McAvoy]

Difficulties continue to hang on around the border between the EU(Irish Republic) and GB(Northern Ireland) and are incredibly difficult to resolve responding to the concerns of all sides. Theresa ‘they said it couldn’t be done’) May couldn’t do it now Johnson is dodging around what he committed to/ didn’t commit to/ didn’t mean really. It took a Labour politician with help from the USA to manage a kind of resolution to negotiate a peace process. Perhaps stopping treating Ireland like a colony would help move things along in the absence of capable politicians. The Northern Ireland secretary was an early casualty of the Johnson Premiership despite being seemingly well regarded by both sides.

 

[QR]

whereas the UK would prefer to cancel the membership and not pay the direct debit for decades.

If you and I had agreed to pay one of the players wages for five years and after a year I said 'I'm out' you've got to pay the lot now. You'd rightly say F off. You'd also feel a bit like the EU is feeling.

 

[Big Ron]

Johnson is trying to be like Trump, behave ridiculously badly in order to shift the agenda. But like everything he does it will be half baked and he’ll row back and u turn.

Werthers, according to the most regular contributor here, he doesn't 'row back and u turn', he just changes his mind, which is, of course, perfectly acceptable (and something he does every week seemingly). You know you're in trouble when one of the most incompetent political careerists of the past 40 years, Ian Duncan(middle name) Smith is sent out to smooth the waters!

 

[Essexyellows]

If you and I had agreed to pay one of the players wages for five years and after a year I said 'I'm out' you've got to pay the lot now. You'd rightly say F off. You'd also feel a bit like the EU is feeling.

I would have total ownership and could sell him for a fortune with 4 years left on his contract. Ask me nicely you might get 20% of the sell on.

The EU will not "cut off their nose to spite their face", I have less confidence in Boris not getting the Stanley knife out.

There will be a "deal", it will be the proverbial pigs ear, but sorting out 40 years of entanglement is never going to be pretty.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

UK Govt current negotiating position:
https://video.flhr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net...=1a095ae25ddf18ce7ee4ad6b929a3c04&oe=5F5781B1

 

[Essexyellows]

Werthers, according to the most regular contributor here, he doesn't 'row back and u turn', he just changes his mind, which is, of course, perfectly acceptable (and something he does every week seemingly). You know you're in trouble when one of the most incompetent political careerists of the past 40 years, Ian Duncan(middle name) Smith is sent out to smooth the waters!

MP`s that aren`t "political careerists" are a very rare breed indeed. That is also part of the problem with politics, not understanding the reality of life.
There are many examples. Statutory Sick Pay for starters..... £95 a week?

 

[QR]

I would have total ownership and could sell him for a fortune with 4 years left on his contract. Ask me nicely you might get 20% of the sell on.

Not analogous I'm afraid. You ain't going to make much of a profit from selling on peoples current and future pension entitlements!

(and anyway if he was worth anything I wouldn't have reneged on my part of the deal)

 

[Sheik djibouti]

I would have total ownership and could sell him for a fortune with 4 years left on his contract. Ask me nicely you might get 20% of the sell on.

The EU will not "cut off their nose to spite their face", I have less confidence in Boris not getting the Stanley knife out.

There will be a "deal", it will be the proverbial pigs ear, but sorting out 40 years of entanglement is never going to be pretty.

40 years of entanglement that we willingly accepted, nay we were one of the central architects of, because, you know, cooperation and compromise often works much better for all concerned, rather than just seeing it from the selfish viewpoint of what's in it for me.

But a few rich people want to hide their tax affairs from scrutiny, so we all have to jump with them. Oh well, such is our lot. .. . the people hath spake and are ALWAYS infallible.

Surely nobody is even surprised that the inevitability of a Tory led brexit becoming a shitshow is actually happening. I mean, it was an enormous gamble to begin with and we always had the weaker hand. You need really good people in that situation and we’ve got what are essentially a bunch of amoral clowns. People might in time wake up to the fact that they’re shorting everything and don’t actually care about any other outcome or consequence, but there is nothing that can be done about that now.

It was obvious that was their plan in 2016, but suckers will be suckers.

 

[chuckbert]

There will be a "deal", it will be the proverbial pigs ear, but sorting out 40 years of entanglement is never going to be pretty.

I don’t recall Boris saying that over the last few years. Or is that him just “changing his position”. And the people who explained that this was what you were in for were no doubt “peddling project fear”.

Jeezus I give up. With this level of expectation, Britain is getting the shitty stick it deserves.

 

[Essexyellows]

I don’t recall Boris saying that over the last few years. Or is that him just “changing his position”. And the people who explained that this was what you were in for were no doubt “peddling project fear”.

Jeezus I give up. With this level of expectation, Britain is getting the shitty stick it deserves.

Nobody said it would be "easy", the question was simple as it had to be.
Leave or Remain.
Sorry to say Leave won much to the distress of the political elite who thought it would be a cake walk to remain winning and putting the issue to bed forever.

Ask that same question now the result could well be different.

However us old fossils know the history of what happened, essentially in a "post war aware" era.

Way back in the 60s & 70s it was an obvious economic choice to join the "Big Six" of Europe as the "Club" was full of countries doing well, our trade with them was already increasing and overtaking the Commonwealth trade balance.

We weren`t that "Sick", barring having either a Labour government behest to the Unions or a weak Conservative one.

In 1974, after an election win, Wilson & Callaghan called for a fundamental renegotiation of the terms laid down in the treaties of accession previously negotiated by the Conservative delegates. There was some quarter given and it was decided to put it to the people.


So in `75 a campaign to influence public opinion began. Sorry kids this was pre the age of information. It was newspapers and one of 3 TV channels with little or no access to the details! Most voters were reliant on the question on the ballot and what was in the limited media of the day. The ballot said:

"The Government has announced the results of the renegotiation of the United Kingdom's terms of membership of the European Community.

Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)? " Yes or No.

Remain won that one and we ended up in the European Economic Community (EEC). Then 18 years later the EEC morphed into the EU under Maastricht.

Followed in 2007 by the Lisbon Treaty cementing the EU Constitution ..... or "The Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union".

Fast forward a few more years and the Club is far less exclusive and letting in members who don`t cut the mustard.

The public were (finally!) asked their opinion of something that has changed massively over time with no direct input from the electorate and they gave their answer.

In my humble both Maastricht & Lisbon should have both gone to the people but hey ho...... we are where we are.

 

[QR]

Nobody said it would be "easy",

Stop pedaling lies.

Liam Fox did.

 

[Marked Ox]

Stop pedaling lies.

Liam Fox did.

The "oven ready" comment plays into that as well.

 

[Sarge]

It seems to me its all starting to morph into an epic episode of Scooby-doo

You have to feel sorry for Dominic Cummings and his government fronted by Johnson ...all their hard work and brilliant handling of the pandemic, with world-beating tests and oven-ready plans and ideas have all been thwarted by 'those pesky kids'

 

[Essexyellows]

Stop pedaling lies.

Liam Fox did.

Means 66.65 million didn`t say it would be easy...................

If you want to play Simple Simon.

If it hits No Deal then so be it, the world will still turn, folk will still wake up life will carry on because £££`s says so. Reality of life.... follow the money.