National News Boris Johnson - PM

ZeroTheHero

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I would have more respect for the opposition if they said "What would give a better result is this............".
Rather than just saying "That`s wrong, get it right".
Without access to the government scientists, civil servants etc then it's a pretty tough call to ask them to come up with a complete alternative strategy for everything - especially when they could say with some justification 'you've got the country into this mess - now sort it out'! The ship is holed below the water line because the captain (or at least the captain's little friend) has steered it into the iceberg and now you are asking the bloke who has constantly been telling the captain he's going in the wrong direction to suggest methods of pumping it out!
 

Essexyellows

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Without access to the government scientists, civil servants etc then it's a pretty tough call to ask them to come up with a complete alternative strategy for everything - especially when they could say with some justification 'you've got the country into this mess - now sort it out'! The ship is holed below the water line because the captain (or at least the captain's little friend) has steered it into the iceberg and now you are asking the bloke who has constantly been telling the captain he's going in the wrong direction to suggest methods of pumping it out!

You might be surprised how much "politic`s" is done in cross party committee`s and groups. There is ample opportunity to engage and influence and receive the same range of information, maybe not the full 5 courses but at least 4. ;)
 

Sheik djibouti

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You might be surprised how much "politic`s" is done in cross party committee`s and groups. There is ample opportunity to engage and influence and receive the same range of information, maybe not the full 5 courses but at least 4. ;)
You might be almost close to the truth of what really happens in times when a government has to steer a careful course in order to get a vote through, but I am afraid you could not be further from it with a Government with a big majority, hell bent on ramming through anything Dommy tells them to. Here's a man pulling the strings in No10, so devoid of any respect for process or taking on board any alternative or opposing view and then modfying his own based on the argument presented, that he will simply sneer at any attempt to hold his feet to the fire through parliamentary scrutiny.

And there is no real accountability in any of this process because of the size of majority the Tories have...so they can quite comfortably stick two fingers up to any illusion of accountability to Parliament.

It matters not one jot what any particular parliamentary select committee or scrutiny panel actually say. If Dom wants it, Dom gets it and only acting ultra vires, causing a constitutional crisis and being held to account by Judicial Review in the Supreme Court is likely to change that.

So it might pay to be a little more humble, a little less Tory fanboy, a little less persistent gloating over the glorious victories your PM is racking up for you and maybe a little bit more concerned for the path they are taking their flock down and what that means for parliamentary process and an indepedent civil service into the bargain ;)
 

QR

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It seems to me that not honouring the WA was the government's plan all along. It's why Doris insisted forms would not have to be fill in to move goods between the UK and NI despite what the WA said. The government will not put a boarder between NI and the Republic and they know the EU would be incredibly reluctant to. So the government gets its way.

If the EU wants to maintain the integrity of its single market (as best it can with an open boarder on the island of Ireland) the only option open to it that I can see is to not agree a trade deal. So unless our government shows any signs of honouring the WA it seems like 'no deal he we come' .

But with the legacy of (a) every country out there will know we are a county run by a government that simply can't be trusted to keep its word and (b) serious economic damage to the UK, Ireland and to a lesser extent the other EU countries.
 

Essexyellows

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You might be almost close to the truth of what really happens in times when a government has to steer a careful course in order to get a vote through, but I am afraid you could not be further from it with a Government with a big majority, hell bent on ramming through anything Dommy tells them to. Here's a man pulling the strings in No10, so devoid of any respect for process or taking on board any alternative or opposing view and then modfying his own based on the argument presented, that he will simply sneer at any attempt to hold his feet to the fire through parliamentary scrutiny.

And there is no real accountability in any of this process because of the size of majority the Tories have...so they can quite comfortably stick two fingers up to any illusion of accountability to Parliament.

It matters not one jot what any particular parliamentary select committee or scrutiny panel actually say. If Dom wants it, Dom gets it and only acting ultra vires, causing a constitutional crisis and being held to account by Judicial Review in the Supreme Court is likely to change that.

So it might pay to be a little more humble, a little less Tory fanboy, a little less persistent gloating over the glorious victories your PM is racking up for you and maybe a little bit more concerned for the path they are taking their flock down and what that means for parliamentary process and an indepedent civil service into the bargain ;)

Would that explain why Sir Kier`s tabled amendment was rejected by some 130 votes rather than gaining some support from the disaffected/abstainers?
I WANT an effective opposition and understand KS is in a difficult place to question and support tacitly for "national unity".
However tabling an amendment on something that was so close nationally and it getting it absolutely toasted says he may not be as Inquisitor General as expected.
 

Essexyellows

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I think he was hoping for the 'decent' Tory MPs to not be massive f*****g cowards and vote against rather than abstaining.

So where did his own "decent" MP`s go ? Some 50 opposition MP`s went AWOL! Maybe they are also massive f*****g cowards and looking at their own interests??
 

PottersRightBoot

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The role of a parliamentary opposition is to challenge and scrutinise the incumbent government. This Starmer has done, and in doing so showed considerable restraint considering the chaotic mess Johnson and co. are creating at almost every turn.

I get that you're a Tory supporter. I get that you will never find it within yourself to praise the opposition under any circumstances, but if you genuinely think all Starmer has done is 'slate the government' I have to question your understanding of how our democracy works.
I think it's a fair point. Yes, he offers testing question at PMQ but Captain Hindsight, has never once offered anything positive to the British people re the pandemic. Re Brexit he's keeping schtum because , somehow, he's got to get the red wall rebuilt.

Oh and 'chaotic mess at every turn ', get over yourself .
 

Marked Ox

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I think it's a fair point. Yes, he offers testing question at PMQ but Captain Hindsight, has never once offered anything positive to the British people re the pandemic. Re Brexit he's keeping schtum because , somehow, he's got to get the red wall rebuilt.

Oh and 'chaotic mess at every turn ', get over yourself .

Why do anything when your opponent is screwing up time after time? Sometimes doing nothing is the best course of action.
 

PottersRightBoot

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Furlough scheme, higher rate of testing than any country in Europe, eat out to help out , economy bouncing back at a greater rate than any country in G7. Labour don't have a chance in 2024, feel free to bookmark. They've also been absolutely legged over re their response to the Internal Markets Bill - they've ended up looking even less patriotic than they did in December.
 

Marked Ox

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Furlough scheme, higher rate of testing than any country in Europe, eat out to help out , economy bouncing back at a greater rate than any country in G7. Labour don't have a chance in 2024, feel free to bookmark. They've also been absolutely legged over re their response to the Internal Markets Bill - they've ended up looking even less patriotic than they did in December.

I'll give you furlough but testing really? It has been an ongoing farce. That is a stretch using the bounce back of the economy in 1 period as well but C19 screwed the economy initially, not the Tories. Eat out to help out including McDonald's etc alongside the Obesity policy, that was beautiful timing.

I can't be bothered to list their world class screw-ups as they've had so many of them and embarrassing u-turns.
 
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Pillox

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Furlough scheme, higher rate of testing than any country in Europe, eat out to help out , economy bouncing back at a greater rate than any country in G7. Labour don't have a chance in 2024, feel free to bookmark. They've also been absolutely legged over re their response to the Internal Markets Bill - they've ended up looking even less patriotic than they did in December.

🤣

It was a joke right
 
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Pete Burrett

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Oh and 'chaotic mess at every turn ', get over yourself .
Do I really have to list (again) all the u-turns following poor decisions, all the misinformation spewed out over testing? I am grateful that you resisted the banal references by some on here to 'what Corbyn would have done', but let's have some humility. Not everything every Tory government does is impeccable. That belief really needs to be 'got over'.
 

Sheik djibouti

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Do I really have to list (again) all the u-turns following poor decisions, all the misinformation spewed out over testing? I am grateful that you resisted the banal references by some on here to 'what Corbyn would have done', but let's have some humility. Not everything every Tory government does is impeccable. That belief really needs to be 'got over'.
You probably do, but you are probably wasting your time as there's none so blind as those that won't see:cool:

Emperors New Clothes for modern times.
 

PottersRightBoot

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Where did I say Tories had been ‘impeccable’ ? Equally , your use of the phrase ‘chaotic mess’ is simply not accurate. Let’s try and get the extremities out of the language used, it’s not Twitter here, but a pair of old buffers on a lower league forum. 😉
 

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