National News Boris Johnson - Ousted Former PM

Would the "progressive alliance" be done by not standing in agreed seats and removing electoral choice?

A deal done by the opposition politicians is not "by the people".

Removing electoral choices/options is not "for the people".
Wow! It took you 41 minutes to completely contradict yourself. It's that the quickest U turn on here ever?
 
My late dad was a very Conservative chap (both with a big and small 'c'!) and for a while was a big wheel in the South West Conservatives. So - an active member of the party, not only a voter or supporter. I didn't (and still don't) agree with his politics but what I will say is that he was as honest and straightforward as could be. He genuinely thought that conservatism was best for the country and the people in it. He would be absolutely appalled by the people running 'his' party at the moment. This is *not* a conservative government, the party has been hijacked by small minded nationalists and self-serving liars and opportunists - even my aged mum (probably more Tory even than my dad!) has stopped being a member of the party. She'll never be Labour or even Liberal (again, with either a big or small 'L'!) but it will take a huge shift in the Tory party for her to vote Conservative again.
 
Yes there was clearly a large protest vote going on but the idea of an progressive alliance is really taking hold.

I hope Johnson digs in and wreaks more damage.
He will.

Tories need to start listening to their own voters if they are to stand any chance at the next GE. Pollsters who ran focus groups in both by-election constituencies have said that the biggest issue raised by Tory voters who no longer intended to vote Tory was still Partygate and the fact that Boris Johnson is a proven liar and law-breaker. Not just lying to the electorate, but to his party, their supporters, the house and the Head of State.

Some deluded and mostly twitchy-ringed red-wall Tory MPs are still hoping against hope that Boris still has the x-factor when it comes to winning and campaigning at the next GE, but the cold hard reality is that Boris has lost his USP and any winning pzazz has long since deserted him. He bumbled around in Devon at some point during the campaign and most likely made matters worse for the hapless Tory candidate, before foxtrot oscar-ing to Kiev and then Kigali.

He's a busted flush, but I don't expect the cult of Boris and the stiff-upper-lippers in the Tory faithful to admit that just yet. That would require clarity of thought and abandoning the current tactic of obtuse obstinancy.
 
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My late dad was a very Conservative chap (both with a big and small 'c'!) and for a while was a big wheel in the South West Conservatives. So - an active member of the party, not only a voter or supporter. I didn't (and still don't) agree with his politics but what I will say is that he was as honest and straightforward as could be. He genuinely thought that conservatism was best for the country and the people in it. He would be absolutely appalled by the people running 'his' party at the moment. This is *not* a conservative government, the party has been hijacked by small minded nationalists and self-serving liars and opportunists - even my aged mum (probably more Tory even than my dad!) has stopped being a member of the party. She'll never be Labour or even Liberal (again, with either a big or small 'L'!) but it will take a huge shift in the Tory party for her to vote Conservative again.
I could have written that. Er, brother?
 
He will.

Tories need to start listening to their own voters if they are to stand any chance at the next GE. Pollsters who ran focus groups in both by-election constituencies have said that the biggest issue raised by Tory voters who no longer intended to vote Tory was still Partygate and the fact that Boris Johnson is a proven liar and law-breaker. Not just lying to the electorate, but to his party, their supporters, the house and the Head of State.

Some deluded and mostly twitchy-ringed red-wall Tory MPs are still hoping against hope that Boris still has the x-factor when it comes to winning and campaigning at the next GE, but the cold hard reality is that Boris has lost his USP and any winning pzazz has long since deserted him. He bumbled around in Devon at some point during the campaign and most likely made matters worse for the hapless Tory candidate, before foxtrot oscar-ing to Kiev and then Kigali.

He's a busted flush, but I don't expect the cult of Boris and the stiff-upper-lippers in the Tory faithful to admit that just yet. That would require clarity of thought and abandoning the current tactic of obtuse obstinancy.
And yet the polling shows only a c.6 percentage-point gap between Tory and Labour. Partygate will be long forgotten by the time of the next GE so Labour will need something new to continue to hold their slender polling lead.
 
This bloke generally knows his stuff:

Tactical voting should worry Tories - Sir John Curtice​


We've been hearing from elections guru Professor Sir John Curtice.
He says at this point in the political cycle, by-elections provide us with a valuable indicator of where the parties stand – but it's often an exaggerated indicator. Governments always do relatively badly during a mid-term of a parliament.
Curtice does say, however, that adding in the other three by-elections held over the past year, on average the Conservative vote is down by 20 points.
You have to go back to John Major's government of 1992-97 to find a government struggling as much.
He adds that it is not a happy precedent – as Major led his party to a serious defeat in 1997.
Curtice highlights the apparent willingness of opposition voters - particularly Labour supporters - to vote tactically.
Labour voters now seem willing to back the Lib Dems in a bid to remove Tory MPs. If this pattern continues in a general election the losses would be far greater for the Conservatives, Curtice says.

From the BBC

Politics, eh 🤷‍♂️
:ROFLMAO:
 
Democracy is putting a strong enough case that the majority vote for it.
No it’s not. That describes a representative parliamentary democracy under first past the post voting regs. The are many more types of democracy.
Mandatory voting and proper PR is the future. :)
Absolutely should be. Will it?
 
I completely disagree with mandatory voting, unless there is a 'none of the above' option, because it opens the door for future autocratic regimes to claim a democratic mandate when the options might be so limited as to be meaningless.
 
I completely disagree with mandatory voting, unless there is a 'none of the above' option, because it opens the door for future autocratic regimes to claim a democratic mandate when the options might be so limited as to be meaningless.

Agreed. I'm pro mandatory voting but it would need 'a none of the above' option as you say.
 
I completely disagree with mandatory voting, unless there is a 'none of the above' option, because it opens the door for future autocratic regimes to claim a democratic mandate when the options might be so limited as to be meaningless.
I disagree. We have it here. You can submit an empty or incomplete ballot, or spoil your ballot.
 
“None of the above” causes more problems than it solves. What happens if the majority vote for None?
Then they have to find different candidates with different policies to stand, or (for example) knock out all but the top two candidates and rerun the vote, so that people who voted for the less popular candidates could reallocate their vote - and there are probably many other options that cleverer people than me could come up with. And spoiling your ballot is a different thing - I have done that in the past and would do it again, but if voting is mandatory you have to give people a proper option to say that the choices offered to them are not acceptable. If you are making people vote, then you have to give them the chance to actually express their opinion, not just vote for the 'least bad' option - otherwise it is democracy in name only.
 
Then they have to find different candidates with different policies to stand, or (for example) knock out all but the top two candidates and rerun the vote, so that people who voted for the less popular candidates could reallocate their vote - and there are probably many other options that cleverer people than me could come up with. And spoiling your ballot is a different thing - I have done that in the past and would do it again, but if voting is mandatory you have to give people a proper option to say that the choices offered to them are not acceptable. If you are making people vote, then you have to give them the chance to actually express their opinion, not just vote for the 'least bad' option - otherwise it is democracy in name only.
Again, I disagree. You need an outcome from an election and get on with business, not an eternal train of failed elections.

Submitting an empty ballot is no different to choosing not to submit a ballot.

The only practical adverse outcome I see in compulsory voting is the donkey vote. This is where people can’t be arsed and just number the boxes from top to bottom (we have pr so multiple numbers). The first candidate on the ballot therefore as a minuscule but detectable advantage. It could be resolved by printing multiple variants or randomised versions of the ballot.
 
And yet the polling shows only a c.6 percentage-point gap between Tory and Labour. Partygate will be long forgotten by the time of the next GE so Labour will need something new to continue to hold their slender polling lead.
partygate may well have been forgotten, but given his record I don't think Boris will be able to keep himself out of trouble until then, his record is consistently mired in sleaze. The job-gate lies are already unravelling, and there will be more.
 
partygate may well have been forgotten, but given his record I don't think Boris will be able to keep himself out of trouble until then, his record is consistently mired in sleaze. The job-gate lies are already unravelling, and there will be more.
You might be right - I wonder if one of his unknown children might magically appear before the GE with some allegations. Worse for would be if Labour decided to come up with a visionary leader, or visionary policies (or both) to provide an electable alternative. Only time will tell.
 
partygate may well have been forgotten, but given his record I don't think Boris will be able to keep himself out of trouble until then, his record is consistently mired in sleaze. The job-gate lies are already unravelling, and there will be more.
Simple thing is for him to resign and do is all a favour then I will be able to vote again.
 
He won't be going anywhere unless it's in a coffin or voted out (and I'll believe that when I see it)
 
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