National News Boris Johnson - Ousted Former PM

Marked Ox said:
Meanwhile as eyes get turned away, these things get ignored, indifference takes hold our democratic conventions and norms get undermined.

We have potentially the beginnings, of what the Republican Party are doing in the US, in this country with voter suppression for a non existent problem. The Crime Bill that wants to limit protests (meanwhile this Govt is rightly criticising Belarus for suppressing opposition) is being shoehorned in.

Because this is what ignoring things (which is really what you are suggesting even though you say not) does, it erodes the base/the norms on which our democracy operates.
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You're right, but about 20 years too late if you think it's only potentially beginning.......
 
Oxymoron said:
You're right, but about 20 years too late if you think it's only potentially beginning.......
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I'm talking purely about the voter suppression with that comment which, until this Govt, wouldn't have been seriously considered.
 
Oxymoron said:
You're right, but about 20 years too late if you think it's only potentially beginning.......
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That’s certainly true when it comes to really putting a spin on things. Which is probably where this nonsense started.
We seemed to have reached a place where the PR takes precedence over the policies.
 
Marked Ox said:
Meanwhile as eyes get turned away, these things get ignored, indifference takes hold our democratic conventions and norms get undermined.

We have potentially the beginnings, of what the Republican Party are doing in the US, in this country with voter suppression for a non existent problem. The Crime Bill that wants to limit protests (meanwhile this Govt is rightly criticising Belarus for suppressing opposition) is being shoehorned in.

Because this is what ignoring things (which is really what you are suggesting even though you say not) does, it erodes the base/the norms on which our democracy operates.
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Nah, I’m not ignoring anything, you see part of my working life was spent looking from the inside out, in some cases if the Govt. of the day wanted to make something happen, there ain’t a lot you can do about it.
I learnt that very quickly so I chose my battles very carefully. I still vote in elections, I know who I want to build on the promises that match my views and beliefs but I’m far too battle hardened and cynical to not get too carried away about how much change I can influence nowadays. Keep fighting, just have realistic expectations.
 
Marked Ox said:
www.theguardian.com

Covid contract for firm run by Cummings’ friends unlawful, finds judge

Michael Gove acted unlawfully when the government awarded contract without tender process, rules judge
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Obviously, if the law was broken there will be prosecutions, unless it was just guidance that was broken?

From the article............

"The first contract, for £90,000, was below the threshold at which an open competitive tender is legally required."

"The second contract was for a maximum of £840,000 but was awarded under regulations that waived the requirements for a tender due to the coronavirus emergency."

"We welcome the judgment that we were entitled to award the contract on the grounds of extreme urgency in response to an unprecedented global pandemic. The judgment makes clear that there was no suggestion of actual bias in the decision to award the contract, it was not due to any personal or professional connections.”

So............. much huffing, much puffing and it has achieved what? Except for raising more money for the GLP?
 
Essexyellows said:
Obviously, if the law was broken there will be prosecutions, unless it was just guidance that was broken?

From the article............

"The first contract, for £90,000, was below the threshold at which an open competitive tender is legally required."

"The second contract was for a maximum of £840,000 but was awarded under regulations that waived the requirements for a tender due to the coronavirus emergency."

"We welcome the judgment that we were entitled to award the contract on the grounds of extreme urgency in response to an unprecedented global pandemic. The judgment makes clear that there was no suggestion of actual bias in the decision to award the contract, it was not due to any personal or professional connections.”

So............. much huffing, much puffing and it has achieved what? Except for raising more money for the GLP?
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I'll just leave this with the key bit "was unlawful":

Mrs Justice O’Farrell, who gave the ruling on the Cabinet Office contract with Public First, said: “The decision of 5 June 2020 to award the contract to Public First gave rise to apparent bias and was unlawful.”

She ruled that the Cabinet Office’s failure to identify or consider any other research agency to carry out the work gave the appearance of “a real danger” that the contract award was biased.

It is about having a transparent Govt and that its actions are brought to public view.
 
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Marked Ox said:
I'll just leave this with the key bit "was unlawful":

Mrs Justice O’Farrell, who gave the ruling on the Cabinet Office contract with Public First, said: “The decision of 5 June 2020 to award the contract to Public First gave rise to apparent bias and was unlawful.”

She ruled that the Cabinet Office’s failure to identify or consider any other research agency to carry out the work gave the appearance of “a real danger” that the contract award was biased.

It is about having a transparent Govt and that its actions are brought to public view.
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OED:

"Illegal and unlawful have slightly different meanings, although they are often used interchangeably.
Something that is illegal is against the law, whereas an unlawful act merely contravenes the rules that apply in a particular context."

So the actions have been brought to public view, much money spent and what has been achieved?
 
Essexyellows said:
So the actions have been brought to public view, much money spent and what has been achieved?
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Well said. Much cheaper to brush it all under the carpet and not investigate any government wrongdoing. Why don't these people trying to maintain standards and accountability just leave our glorious leaders alone?
 
Essexyellows said:
OED:

"Illegal and unlawful have slightly different meanings, although they are often used interchangeably.
Something that is illegal is against the law, whereas an unlawful act merely contravenes the rules that apply in a particular context."

So the actions have been brought to public view, much money spent and what has been achieved?
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So an unlawful killing is not illegal then? - Good to know!
 
"Whoosh risk alert".
Unlawful killing is a verdict from an inquest, not a court of law. It is what triggers a police investigation and would lead to a prosecution for murder or manslaughter being brought if a suspect is identified and able to be charged..
 
Oxymoron said:
Unlawful killing is a verdict from an inquest, not a court of law. It is what triggers a police investigation and would lead to a prosecution for murder or manslaughter being brought if a suspect is identified and able to be charged..
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And so acting unlawfully can result in prosecution if an offence has been committed. The reason it is called unlawful is because it is against the law (who knew!)

For an offence to be committed and a prosecution to be pursued, the offence has to be prescribed in statute, yes?

Whether an offence in law has been committed is a moot point, but what is clear is that everyone, including the law makers them selves, really ought to try quite hard to not act unlawfully. One can only assume there is a good reason for having the laws/rules in the first place and a painstaking process involving in depth scrutiny along the way would've been followed to bring them into being in the first place. The point is Laws, rules, regulations - call them what you will - don't just happen!

It is an incredibly shitty way for any government and democratic law making body to act, to simply ignore and ride roughshod over any such rules and laws as they see fit on the basis of that they likely won't face any criminal sanctions over it. But again it comes back to how much the government of the day actually care about such thing as pesky laws and rules.

And it is entirely right that these things are in the public domain and the government of the day (and day and any flavour) are held to account for them. I assume the electorate are not normally in the habit of electing a government to go to work for them, to make laws and rules that all need to abide by - including them, and then just ignore as they see fit.

Or maybe we have we reached the point where the Government can do pretty much what it wants, so long as prosecution doesn't result. And they can get away with it as long as they tough it out, no ministers resign (instead, some government adviser will fall on their sword). And as an electorate sweetener, they'll quickly jump on some populist issue (booing/Ollie Robinson suspension etc tc) that will strike a chord with enough voters to keep them thinking "yes - they think like me...therefore I will forgive the rest of their shithousery". Job done- choppy waters smoothed and the crime goes unpunished at the ballot box, where dishonest underhand politicians would traditionally meet their fate.

Maybe they are just the Jamie Mackie/Chris McGuire of governments. Fine in a Yellow Shirt - absolute arseholes if doing it for anyone else!
 
Apart from anything else, this Government seems quite happy to break any rules they want, when they want to, if it suits them. At the same time they have been asking us to follow rules and 'guidance' to the letter. Pity they can't set any kind of good example really.
 
SteMerritt said:
Well said. Much cheaper to brush it all under the carpet and not investigate any government wrongdoing. Why don't these people trying to maintain standards and accountability just leave our glorious leaders alone?
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Because the transaction itself is in the public domain for those who know where to look?
In the grander scheme of things it may appear to some to be wrong but isn`t.

Sheik djibouti said:
Maybe they are just the Jamie Mackie/Chris McGuire of governments. Fine in a Yellow Shirt - absolute arseholes if doing it for anyone else!
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More like what really happened.

Still, at least we didn`t go to war over it .................. that would be genuinely criminal.
 
It certainly does matter! Probably not for the same reasons though.............

It shouldn`t be a problem housing illegal immigrants in barracks, for a short period of time before shipping them straight back to France.

By all means, migrate but do it through the proper channels. Likewise claim refuge or asylum in line with the UN Convention.

"Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states that refugees cannot be penalised for entering the country illegally to claim asylum if they are “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”.

Last time I checked France wasn`t threatening anyone life or freedom.

Unfortunately, until someone plays hardball people will continue to be trafficked and people will continue to die.
 
They didn't come from France, they transited through it from the place of origin (i.e. where they came from).

Of course, if we want to stop people coming, we could always consider helping to make their country of origin a safer, more desirable place to live bu sticking with our foreign aid programme....oh...wait!
 
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