National Politics 🔵 The Conservative Party

[Londox]

You are aware that satisfaction with the NHS reached a high point of 70% in 2010 following 13 years of Labour government and then plummeted as a result of 14 years of Tory austerity and not as a result of increased immigration in the wake of Farage's Brexit? Aren't you?

10-15 MILLION migrants have come to the UK since 2010.

 

[QR]

10-15 MILLION migrants have come to the UK since 2010.

Show me your working.

 

[Londox]

Show me your working.

And this is just the official reports, god knows the real number.

How you can have this influx and it not affect the quality of life of the average person is totally beyond me.

 

[Eric Blair]

Show me your working.

Not quite the right data set but this from the ONS suggests it is much lower. A net increase of just over 2 million which is still substantial but not 10-15 million.

• Total long-term immigration between YE June 2012 and YE June 2021 was around 7.4 million and emigration of 5.2 million; this means that net migration over the decade added about 2.2 million to the UK population, approximately 232,000 less than indicated by our previously published estimates for this period

Estimating UK international migration: 2012 to 2021 - Office for National Statistics

How migration has changed over the decade, the methods used to produce the updated series and the evidence used to demonstrate confidence that the new methods are robust.

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[Eric Blair]

View attachment 32907
And this is just the official reports, god knows the real number.

How you can have this influx and it not affect the quality of life of the average person is totally beyond me.

You are assuming that they all stay. Many will be here at uni studying or temporary contracts before returning home. You need to look at immigration with migration. See my other post for more accurate data

 

[Londox]

Not quite the right data set but this from the ONS suggests it is much lower. A net increase of just over 2 million which is still substantial but not 10-15 million.

• Total long-term immigration between YE June 2012 and YE June 2021 was around 7.4 million and emigration of 5.2 million; this means that net migration over the decade added about 2.2 million to the UK population, approximately 232,000 less than indicated by our previously published estimates for this period

Estimating UK international migration: 2012 to 2021 - Office for National Statistics

How migration has changed over the decade, the methods used to produce the updated series and the evidence used to demonstrate confidence that the new methods are robust.

www.ons.gov.uk

2.2 million that we know about though, and whether migrants leave or not when they're here they use public services.

2.2 million net in a 9 year period is total insanity. I believe the figure in reality will be much larger than that.

 

[QR]

2.2 million that we know about though, and whether migrants leave or not when they're here they use public services.

2.2 million net in a 9 year period is total insanity. I believe the figure in reality will be much larger than that.

Oh, so you've for from 10-15 million to 2.2 million in 15 minutes. Says everything.

 

[Essexyellows]

Your list contains some valuable lasting gains, but the last 8 are all history and in the main, of no material long term benefit to the well being and prosperity, of most of the UK’s population.

You said: "Apart from hosting the Olympics in 2012, I can’t think of any “incredible things” the UK has done this last 50 years ."

In the last 50 years kind of suggests the incredible things will, by default, be "history".

 

[Londox]

Oh, so you've for from 10-15 million to 2.2 million in 15 minutes. Says everything.

Firstly 2.2 million is for a 9 year period not the 16 I mentioned.
Secondly 2.2million is only what the government has kept track of
Thirdly the volume is 10-15 million in the period I mentioned
Fourhtly 2.2million net in 9 years is a catastrophically high number

 

[LowerSouth]

You said: "Apart from hosting the Olympics in 2012, I can’t think of any “incredible things” the UK has done this last 50 years ."

In the last 50 years kind of suggests the incredible things will, by default, be "history".

You are being pedantic and know exactly what I was meaning.
As per your point regarding the 2012 Olympics- that has led to a complete regeneration of the area in and around Stratford, which is still ongoing.

 

[Sheik Djibouti]

You said: "Apart from hosting the Olympics in 2012, I can’t think of any “incredible things” the UK has done this last 50 years ."

In the last 50 years kind of suggests the incredible things will, by default, be "history".

Good shout on Patrick Steptoe. He lived in Witney, dontcha know (there's even a Blue Plaque for him iirc)

 

[Sheik Djibouti]

Firstly 2.2 million is for a 9 year period not the 16 I mentioned.
Secondly 2.2million is only what the government has kept track of
Thirdly the volume is 10-15 million in the period I mentioned
Fourhtly 2.2million net in 9 years is a catastrophically high number

In your opinion.

You can bandy around flowery language all you like, but the reason that infrastructure, housing and public services are in such an abysmal state is not down to the arrival of 2.2 million people (I assume those are they that have been granted a legal right to stay, by the way). The fundamental reason why everything feels so s**t is more to do with chronic sustained underinvestment in said "fundamentals" by successive governments, that was turbo-charged under the banner of austerity by the last government (when most of those arrivals happened too).

That and the fact Nigel keeps telling you through every available channel that everything is shite of course. He also tells you he has the solutions . . .but as with everything Nigel says, it's just a big fat lie to try and impress you. Be smarter and don't fall for it.

We're still the 7th richest country on the planet. We have a GDP on a par with India and that absolutely dwarfs places like Russia and everywhere else in Europe, bar Germany. Our GDP growth is also the 4th best in the top 10. In essence, we are an extremely well-off nation and should have no problem at all in providing improved (world class) infrastructure to support the population. The fact we don't says more about where all that wealth is going, rather than the fact that we can't afford it. . . and Nigel and his chums would like everyone to keep it that way, if you wouldn't mind.

 

[Essexyellows]

We're still the 7th richest country on the planet. We have a GDP on a par with India and that absolutely dwarfs places like Russia and everywhere else in Europe, bar Germany. Our GDP growth is also the 4th best in the top 10. In essence, we are an extremely well-off nation and should have no problem at all in providing improved (world class) infrastructure to support the population. The fact we don't says more about where all that wealth is going, rather than the fact that we can't afford it. . . and Nigel and his chums would like everyone to keep it that way, if you wouldn't mind.

Think the OECD think differently....and have changed their minds..........

The OECD's December 2025 update slightly revised UK growth up for 2026 to 1.2%, noting the global economy's resilience but also growing fragilities, with the UK expected to see slower growth than some peers.

The OECD forecast a slowdown for the UK to about 1% for 2026, with persistent service inflation and interest rate concerns cited as dampeners.

 

[Londox]

In your opinion.

You can bandy around flowery language all you like, but the reason that infrastructure, housing and public services are in such an abysmal state is not down to the arrival of 2.2 million people (I assume those are they that have been granted a legal right to stay, by the way). The fundamental reason why everything feels so s**t is more to do with chronic sustained underinvestment in said "fundamentals" by successive governments, that was turbo-charged under the banner of austerity by the last government (when most of those arrivals happened too).

That and the fact Nigel keeps telling you through every available channel that everything is shite of course. He also tells you he has the solutions . . .but as with everything Nigel says, it's just a big fat lie to try and impress you. Be smarter and don't fall for it.

We're still the 7th richest country on the planet. We have a GDP on a par with India and that absolutely dwarfs places like Russia and everywhere else in Europe, bar Germany. Our GDP growth is also the 4th best in the top 10. In essence, we are an extremely well-off nation and should have no problem at all in providing improved (world class) infrastructure to support the population. The fact we don't says more about where all that wealth is going, rather than the fact that we can't afford it. . . and Nigel and his chums would like everyone to keep it that way, if you wouldn't mind.

I think Eric is more reasonable than you on this.

If you can't acknowledge that 2.2 *million* people (government guesstimate) coming here in that 9 years hasn't had a deep and intrinsic affect on the housing crisis, NHS waiting times, societal cohesion, safety, politics, the environment I fear we are not having a conversation grounded in reality.

I'm willing to admit problems go beyond mass migration but it's my main issue. Do you honestly think this extraordinary wave of mass migration never seen before in human history outside of war and invasions and has had no or minimal negative affects?

 

[Eric Blair]

I think Eric is more reasonable than you on this.

If you can't acknowledge that 2.2 *million* people (government guesstimate) coming here in that 9 years hasn't had a deep and intrinsic affect on the housing crisis, NHS waiting times, societal cohesion, safety, politics, the environment I fear we are not having a conversation grounded in reality.

I'm willing to admit problems go beyond mass migration but it's my main issue. Do you honestly think this extraordinary wave of mass migration never seen before in human history outside of war and invasions and has had no or minimal negative affects?

First of all, thanks for the compliment.

2.2 million is a big number but I would say it’s difficult to know if it’s a negative. I have a disabled son and most of the interactions I have - pharmacists, doctors, psychologists and teachers are immigrants and nice people. I’m grateful for them being here. I also agree with @Sheik Djibouti that infrastructure spend (or lack of it) is the bigger problem.

I live in an area of relatively high immigration (east Oxford) and generally people seem to rub along quite well. Obviously I want nice people in this country with shared values (democracy, the rule of law, community, a love of Shemmy) but you get that with most immigrants and some you don’t just like you get that with most people born here and some you dont.

As I said before I totally understand your frustration and these debates are important to have.

 

[Essexyellows]

If there were fewer people the "fundamentals" would work better.

The UK population has grown significantly since 2000.

It was around 59 million in September 2000 and is now an estimated 69.7 million.with the period to mid-2024 seeing the second-largest numerical rise in over 75 years.

Too many people joining the ponzi scheme.

 

[Eric Blair]

If there were fewer people the "fundamentals" would work better.

The UK population has grown significantly since 2000.

It was around 59 million in September 2000 and is now an estimated 69.7 million.with the period to mid-2024 seeing the second-largest numerical rise in over 75 years.

Too many people joining the ponzi scheme.

I’m not sure they would. I know what you are saying but without immigration then demographically we’d have more older people in retirement using the NHS (as is their hard earned right) and no people to pay for it.

The answer isn’t easy but it is a highly educated and skilled population that can compete globally for the best jobs and attract businesses to the UK both domestically and through immigration (this is all that we can do in a globalised free market world).

Incidentally @Essexyellows you remain one of my favourite posters on here. Unpredictable but also consistent. Like the Mark E Smith of yellowsforum.

 

[Essexyellows]

I’m not sure they would. I know what you are saying but without immigration then demographically we’d have more older people in retirement using the NHS (as is their hard earned right) and no people to pay for it.

The answer isn’t easy but it is a highly educated and skilled population that can compete globally for the best jobs and attract businesses to the UK both domestically and through immigration (this is all that we can do in a globalised free market world).

Incidentally @Essexyellows you remain one of my favourite posters on here. Unpredictable but also consistent. Like the Mark E Smith of yellowsforum.

Every country has immigration - no issue with that at all.

However we should be selecting the people we want and need, the same as many other countries - some of which are hard enough to get into as a tourist, I`m looking at you our antipodean cousins!

We shouldn`t be taking in any old waif & stray that can say "asylum" who will then take out from a system they`ve paid diddly into. That`s where the problem sits.

When it comes to "tax the rich" that is increasingly difficult in a globalised free market so the government is seen to be or is rinsing its own population - the only people they can.

Games gone - its gold & silver bars under the bed and hope for the best.

 

[Sheik Djibouti]

Every country has immigration - no issue with that at all.

However we should be selecting the people we want and need, the same as many other countries - some of which are hard enough to get into as a tourist, I`m looking at you our antipodean cousins!

We shouldn`t be taking in any old waif & stray that can say "asylum" who will then take out from a system they`ve paid diddly into. That`s where the problem sits.

When it comes to "tax the rich" that is increasingly difficult in a globalised free market so the government is seen to be or is rinsing its own population - the only people they can.

Games gone - its gold & silver bars under the bed and hope for the best.

What % of immigrants to this country did we not choose to let in?

What % claim asylum?

 

[Eric Blair]

Every country has immigration - no issue with that at all.

However we should be selecting the people we want and need, the same as many other countries - some of which are hard enough to get into as a tourist, I`m looking at you our antipodean cousins!

We shouldn`t be taking in any old waif & stray that can say "asylum" who will then take out from a system they`ve paid diddly into. That`s where the problem sits.

When it comes to "tax the rich" that is increasingly difficult in a globalised free market so the government is seen to be or is rinsing its own population - the only people they can.

Games gone - its gold & silver bars under the bed and hope for the best.

Gold and silver bars and Dead Kennedys records. That will get you through

 

[Londox]

What % of immigrants to this country did we not choose to let in?

What % claim asylum?

The voting public have continually voted against mass immigration and politicians have allowed it to happen regardless.

 

[QR]

When it comes to "tax the rich" that is increasingly difficult in a globalised free market so the government is seen to be or is rinsing its own population - the only people they can.

So now both the right leaning (you) and the left leaning (me) agree that the problem is the super rich not paying it's fair share in tax why do some see those who do the bidding of the rich (Truss, Farage, Tice with an unhealthy dollop of Tufton Street) as those with the answers?

 

[m]

So now both the right leaning (you) and the left leaning (me) agree that the problem is the super rich not paying it's fair share in tax why do some see those who do the bidding of the rich (Truss, Farage, Tice with an unhealthy dollop of Tufton Street) as those with the answers?

Can I just enquire who's benefit the clarifiers I've highlighted in bold are for?

 

[QR]

Can I just enquire who's benefit the clarifiers I've highlighted in bold are for?

Surely we're gaining new 'readers' every day aren't we?

 

[Londox]

So now both the right leaning (you) and the left leaning (me) agree that the problem is the super rich not paying it's fair share in tax why do some see those who do the bidding of the rich (Truss, Farage, Tice with an unhealthy dollop of Tufton Street) as those with the answers?

Essex point is that taxing the super rich in a globalised economy is very difficult to impossible.

I also think even if you got the super rich to pay more tax it would not fix all or any societal ills. The government capable of wasting money at extraordinary rates.

 

[SteMerritt]

The voting public have continually voted against mass immigration and politicians have allowed it to happen regardless.

Where have there been votes on mass immigration? Or are you extrapolating this from somewhere?

 

[SteMerritt]

The government capable of wasting money at extraordinary rates.

That it is. I don't think any government of any rosette colour is going to change it either.

 

[chuckbert]

From my perspective, I live in low quality housing with mold which I pay through the teeth for, 100% there are people living in social housing who have much better living conditions than me despite the fact I've never claimed a dime from the government and I work hard in very challenging mental waters persoanlly. It doesn't feel fair.

It absolutely isn’t fair and must be hugely frustrating. The problem is the lack of tenant’s rights though, not that unfortunate people are given satisfactory housing. Sorting out the private housing sector is needed, to make it less of a grift for landlords, and to drastically increase the quality of housing (as happens in more socialistleaning European countries).
Sadly I don’t think Reform will be your friend in this area (tories and labour wont be either). They seem to be all for improving things for private landlords not for tenants.

 

[LowerSouth]

It absolutely isn’t fair and must be hugely frustrating. The problem is the lack of tenant’s rights though, not that unfortunate people are given satisfactory housing. Sorting out the private housing sector is needed, to make it less of a grift for landlords, and to drastically increase the quality of housing (as happens in more socialistleaning European countries).
Sadly I don’t think Reform will be your friend in this area (tories and labour wont be either). They seem to be all for improving things for private landlords not for tenants.

Loads of new legislation to help tenants:
Awaab’s Law -autumn 2025
Tenants Rights Bill - May 2026

 

[QR]

I appreciate your kind words but it's ok.

What you've hit on there though is exactly the point I'm getting at. Almost everyone my age is very frustrated. Almost all of my friends are or perceive themselves to be less well off than their parents. I have two friends who have bought houses, both of which have done it through help from parents despite having good to relatively good jobs. We are living in what Eliza Filby coined as "the inheritocracy" where the correlation between hard work and home ownership has been lost (I appreciate this may vary in the UK depending on where you live).

The fact you have something to lose is a great thing by the way, but most people I know (of my age or lower) don't feel like they have much of a stake in society. When it comes to my own age I suspect in terms of who I know it will go 40% Reform, 40% Green, 20% other. (This won't be reflected nationally but is a reflection of where I grew up, where I live, and my work)

No one seems to be content, it's either people angry they feel they're being taxed too much and immigrants are getting a sweeter deal, or that Billionaires are the route of all evil and a wealth tax will solve everything.

From my perspective, I live in low quality housing with mold which I pay through the teeth for, 100% there are people living in social housing who have much better living conditions than me despite the fact I've never claimed a dime from the government and I work hard in very challenging mental waters persoanlly. It doesn't feel fair.

I love the NHS and I know its great, but my personal experience with it has been very difficult. I have 100% had experiences speaking to mental health professionals who do not speak English to a level I understand, I also think immense pressure is put on the system from mass migration. Yes it's funding too but I cannot see how migration isn't playing a role.

Then there's the housing stock, people are struggling to live and survive and we import hundreds of thousands a year? It feels like insanity to me.

Bills are going up, taxes are going up, the NHS is struggling, and yet some MPs seem more concerned with conflicts abroad than what's going on in our own country.

I am convinced the status quo will be broken. No idea whether that'll be reform or a green/lab coalition but the wind of change is in the air.

By the way, I don't necesarrily think you are wrong. There are obviously issues that are not solely caused by migration. But nothing I have seen or believe personally doesn't make me see mass immigration as the main issue.

What makes you think a right wing government of any particular hue is going to be good for non-immigrant working people?

I seriously encourage you to sit down and watch in full this documentary to see exactly how a person, many right of centre people stil claim was the best PM this country has had, ACTUAL treated hard working, actually fcking hard working, working class, WHITE community in this country, once they're manipulated enough minds to get away with it.

Try not to take sides before you watch it. Don't get hung up on Scargill's non- existent strategy beyond making it a class war rather than property explaining what's was actual going on and doing what was best for the miners. Put yourself in the shoes of the miners. Watch it from the perspective of what would be the best approach to sustain the working community of the UK during a period of great change. And then consider what actual happened.

Be honest with yourself and see if you conclude that the right wing has never had the best interests of you and I at it's heart.

Miners’ Strike: A Frontline Story: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001wm1x via @bbciplayer