International News Black Lives Matter

[Yellow River]

It's not Back to the Future!!!

If we ripped down every statue, burnt every book, then what would actually change for tomorrow? Yes we have a history that has good and bad, and there are things to celebrate and things to forget. But 90 percent of those getting angry would have had absolutely no idea who some of these historical figures were a couple of weeks ago, so the level of outrage is slightly farcical.

There are historical things that you may wish to forget, but surely the terrible events are the ones that society learn the most from.

For example who in their right mind would want to forget that Hiltler attempted to exterminate the whole of the Jewish race?
We can learn a lot from history.

 

[bazzer9461]

Where do you stop then?
Mrs T... didn`t treat the miners very well?
Slave traders............ best rename Yale then Yanks!
Southern American Generals..... well they backed the "losers"?
American Frontiersmen that slaughtered indigenous peoples?
Any medieval King or Bishop? Mostly fanatical zealots who found ways to torture and kill folk they didn`t agree with.
Cromwell- religious fundamentalist, zealot, mass murderer? Oh....and father of the modern system.
Boudicca? Happily levelled Colchester & London and committed mass murder based on race?
Stonehenge? Probably built by an enslaved populace.

And so it goes on....... almost all unacceptable by today`s standards.......... which is exactly why we have today`s standards!

In what way did Mrs T not treat the miners very well. She shut the pita because we as a country couldn’t compete with the cheap coal from Poland.

 

[bazzer9461]

There are historical things that you may wish to forget, but surely the terrible events are the ones that society learn the most from.

For example who in their right mind would want to forget that Hiltler attempted to exterminate the whole of the Jewish race?
We can learn a lot from history.

History is a very important part of learning. The past needs to be learned.

 

[Yellow River]

I don't understand how difficult it is to distinguish between a statue, which has the sole purpose of celebrating the life of an individual, and a building. Yet people are still struggling with this.

No, we don't demolish structures. Yes, we review statues and remove those from public spaces that are now considered controversial.

Agree. Not by mob rule though.

 

[MattyGreensLeftBoot]

I don't understand how difficult it is to distinguish between a statue, which has the sole purpose of celebrating the life of an individual, and a building. Yet people are still struggling with this.

No, we don't demolish structures. Yes, we review statues and remove those from public spaces that are now considered controversial.

A pyramid is a statue/building to commemorate a slave owner it is his temple for his afterlife its sole purpose is to celebrate his life. It has pictures of him on the inside it is all about celebrating the individual. It is a "burial monument". I would concede they probably weren't built by slaves but you definitely have to concede they were built to celebrate the life of a slave owner

 

[MattyGreensLeftBoot]

The biggest issue I have with BLM and it not being All lives Matter is the police seem scared to intervene now for perception about being racist. We get the rediculous situation where last night in Brixton (which is nothing to do with BLM but there is additional pressure on the police because of those protests) there was rioting and the police left them to it. Look at the Twitter feeds this morning and the pictures indicate a disproportionate amount of a specific group engaging in knife related violence. I haven't counted those who were of course being peaceful and just happened to be breaking the law in a mass gathering. The police need to intervene with tasers if need be or bring arms if they suspect that these riots are about to get nasty. They send riot vans to football fans but softly softly police cars to the riot.

Every one should be equal under the law this constant harassing of the police when they try to enforce the law is getting out of hand. Simply trying to stop and search a proportionate number of each minority group would have been difficult last night (where were the Chinese to start with). People who get tasered when running away with drugs immediately assume it's their race that caused them to be tasers not their crime doing and fleeing. If and I suspect operation trident from the met shows black on black gun violence is a big issue then I would expect that to be targeted by the police. White collar crime I would suspect would be disproportionately committed by white ethnic groups. Again computer hacking and fraud/bribery is terrible so should be punished. I wouldn't expect police to seize the same proportionate number of computers across all ethnic groups when investigating white collar crime.

As I say every life matters the law should be applied equally but last night it really wasn't along with how the police dealt with the anti-lockdown protests too. As someone who doesn't drink I would get disproportionately stopped by police on my journey home from Friday night pub/club with a car full of people when younger. I never once complained it was because of my age or any other profiling the police had applied to me just blew my breath test then cracked on.

Basically I am trying to say the police in the UK need to be applying the same law to everyone. And if the statistics don't exactly show everything is in proportion then that just might not be the polices fault.

 

[Gary Baldi]

This seems to indicate there was a BLM live music protest earlier in the day:

Brixton Black Lives Matter live music protest, Windrush Square, Weds 24th June 2020

There’s a Black Lives Matter live music protest taking place in Brixton’s Windrush Square today, Weds 24th June 2020, with the bands kicking off at 1pm. IMPORTANT: Please read this upda…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

 

[WuTang]

I think there is far too much fury over statues. They are there to celebrate the positive and usually incredible things those persons achieved. At the time most statue figures were alive slavery was legal and they did not consider they were doing anything wrong, it's how they were educated and raised as children. It's only with education we now know it's wrong, I don't think it takes away from the positives they brought to the world at the time, which enabled us to live in the world we do today. As an example, in 200 or 300 years time humans may look back at our generation as disgusting animals for slaughtering and killing other animals to eat. Vegetarianism could be the norm, education was the issue, and everyone who ate meat should be ignored for their positive impacts on society? (Vegetarian) Food for thought!

 

[Yellow River]

England rugby fans could soon be banned from singing 'Swing Low, Sweet Chariot'

RFU reviewing use of American slave anthem, which has previously been criticised by academics for cultural appropriation

www.telegraph.co.uk

The English egg chasers appear to be somewhat divided over the singing of the hymn ‘Swing low sweet chariot ‘

 

[m]

In what way did Mrs T not treat the miners very well.

Bloody Hell Bazzer!

 

[QR]

I think there is far too much fury over statues. They are there to celebrate the positive and usually incredible things those persons achieved. At the time most statue figures were alive slavery was legal and they did not consider they were doing anything wrong, it's how they were educated and raised as children. It's only with education we now know it's wrong, I don't think it takes away from the positives they brought to the world at the time, which enabled us to live in the world we do today. As an example, in 200 or 300 years time humans may look back at our generation as disgusting animals for slaughtering and killing other animals to eat. Vegetarianism could be the norm, education was the issue, and everyone who ate meat should be ignored for their positive impacts on society? (Vegetarian) Food for thought!

What you don't think that those being enslaved knew it was wrong at the time? Or is this another case of 'them' and 'us'?

 

[MattyGreensLeftBoot]

I also think the UK has a massive issue with lack of Indian and south Asian ethnic players playing football at the top level. Compared to other ethnic groups black people make up 3% of the UK population Indian and Pakistani make up 4% white British make up 87%. Then compare these figures to the last world cup squad we sent in 2018. And if that doesn't look like a big enough sample size use the figures on home grown players in the top flight. I would argue far from suggesting that football has a diversity issue with black players (who seem to be outperforming rest) the issues exist in other parts of the community.

That said my favourite player is Matty Green probably closely followed by super Kevin Francis so definitely don't see this as a critisism of any player of any ethnicity that has risen to the top.

 

[Marked Ox]

I don't understand how difficult it is to distinguish between a statue, which has the sole purpose of celebrating the life of an individual, and a building. Yet people are still struggling with this.

No, we don't demolish structures. Yes, we review statues and remove those from public spaces that are now considered controversial.

By putting the full story with a statue, you change its purpose from being a celebration to a means of education.

 

[SteMerritt]

Simply trying to stop and search a proportionate number of each minority group would have been difficult last night (where were the Chinese to start with).

Firstly, thanks for the long response. I've highlighted the above section, however, because you are thinking too narrow. It's not about police being proportionate in individual incidents, it's about the preportions overall. Of course if you are at a protest event you will get skewed figures.

You base most of the post on policing, and say about certain groups being more likely to be involved in disorder, but you don't ask yourself why that may be. Crime is the result of underlying issues, and many just can't seem to see this. We have people going on about black on black crime but not thinking there could be reasons why this is happening, such as maybe there are fewer oppertunities in life. These are the discussions which need to be had.

 

[SteMerritt]

By putting the full story with a statue, you change its purpose from being a celebration to a means of education.

True, but if there is a will from the community to remove it, then it should be removed. Statues aren't for life, if their time is done then they should be removed.

And I'll say it again, this should never be done by mob rule.

 

[Sarge]

In what way did Mrs T not treat the miners very well. She shut the pita because we as a country couldn’t compete with the cheap coal from Poland.

Crushing the NUM was the intention, ( UK coal production was a nationalised industry btw ), which devastated entire ( mining) communities across Britain, some of which, 40 years plus later, still haven't recovered

and lets not forget the 'battle' of Orgreave ..... recentish UK history

Background: 'The Battle of Orgreave'

The "Battle of Orgreave" was one of the most violent clashes of the 1984-5 miners' strike, but what was its significance?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[QR]

In what way did Mrs T not treat the miners very well.

I thought you were against the rewriting of history.

 

[SteMerritt]

I also think the UK has a massive issue with lack of Indian and south Asian ethnic players playing football at the top level. Compared to other ethnic groups black people make up 3% of the UK population Indian and Pakistani make up 4% white British make up 87%. Then compare these figures to the last world cup squad we sent in 2018. And if that doesn't look like a big enough sample size use the figures on home grown players in the top flight. I would argue far from suggesting that football has a diversity issue with black players (who seem to be outperforming rest) the issues exist in other parts of the community.

Another discussion we have had over the years. The England cricket team has a strong Asian representation, does this point to an upbringing issue? India and Pakistan are huge cricket nations, not so much football, so maybe fathers are bringing up children to play cricket rather than football? Or is there a roadblock to Asian players making it through the system? I certainly played against a lot of really good Asian lads growing up, surely some would have made it?

 

[Gary Baldi]

Not a good look from a Cambridge "academic", nor the doubling down on it in the past 24 hours from the lady:

Keeping in mind the massive furore around the idiot Burnley fan and the stupid banner, the comments from the individual above do not appear in the great of taste at a time of heightened passions, especially if you are a white student in her classes. Does she mark you down or minorities up because of her conscious bias? Is she racist too? And why hasn't the academic been sacked already?

Sadly, it will just embolden the idiots on the far right even more to feel they are being victimised and further entrenches the position of some that education is a leftie bastion and if you have the opinion, your position is safe....

 

[WuTang]

What you don't think that those being enslaved knew it was wrong at the time? Or is this another case of 'them' and 'us'?

Potentially, but it's very easy for leaders or high up figures to brainwash the general public, just look into Hitler and the jews. If children were being raised and educated to believe certain races were evil they would not believe they were wrongdoing at the time. Seems unbelievable to conceive now but there's evidence that was the case unfortunately. I think it's important we learn from history without lynching and condemning people today for crimes (which were not crimes at the time) committed hundreds of years ago.