International News Black Lives Matter

[Twiggy85]

Haven't read his words Baz. Was Sterling really claiming that the fact that 'only' a third of Premier League players were black showed the league (or the clubs) were racist? Really?

Yes mate BBC news, he didn’t say racism he just said a third of all players in the premiership are black I couldn’t quite catch the rest but it was something about the owners should look into it. I wouldn’t have painted it but that made my blood boil and as I was writing the wife read out a statement on FB from someone else who wasn’t happy. Sterling is a greedy self centred t**t.

why is sterling greedy? For getting paid what a club is prepared to pay him and what his market worth is (on that basis all premier league footballers are greedy) equally what has he done to be self centred? it would be self centred to stay quiet and do nothing because it would give him an easier life and wouldn’t get the grief he gets. Instead he is prepared to put his head above the parapet and call out wrong doing/challenge social norms because he believes it will help others in future and hopefully make a difference. I think that’s the polar opposite of self centred.

lastly I think the point Sterling was making was that a 3rd of players are black yet what proportion of managers/coaches/FA administrators etc are black so the bit you didn’t catch was the entire point he was making. From what I have read/ watched he wasnt suggesting there was a lack of black players.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

If you had to extract everything from Britain that was directly or indirectly built from the proceeds of the slave trade there actually wouldn't be too much left. When slavery was abolished in Britain in 1833 it wasn't the case that the slave owners just freed their slaves, the British parliament very handsomely compensated them for their loss of 'assets'. And those now former slave traders were now even wealthier than before and made huge investments in the British economy as a result, and one key investment was the building of the British railway network that we have today. The very railway that many of the protesters have been travelling on to get to and around London in the last few days. So should we now be ripping that up too? How far do you go with all of this?

It's one thing toppling a statue and saying all other like reminders of a past history that in today's society simply isn't acceptable must go too all over the rest of the country, but then you are being hypocritical by passively accepting the benefits and positive factors that the investments in Britain that these unacceptable individuals made. It's very easy to target the individual, but you need to know the full background story and legacy of these people to work out and then possibly realise that for years you may have unknowingly accepted doing something which has enhanced your life but which you now realise was only formed off the back of slave trade money 175-200 years ago, so does that now make it right or wrong to still do it? How extreme does this need to get to completely erase all reference to the slave traders, it's going to need a complete rewrite of history not just the pulling down of a few statues and monuments and changing of street names.

 

[bazzer9461]

why is sterling greedy? For getting paid what a club is prepared to pay him and what his market worth is (on that basis all premier league footballers are greedy) equally what has he done to be self centred? it would be self centred to stay quiet and do nothing because it would give him an easier life and wouldn’t get the grief he gets. Instead he is prepared to put his head above the parapet and call out wrong doing/challenge social norms because he believes it will help others in future and hopefully make a difference. I think that’s the polar opposite of self centred.

lastly I think the point Sterling was making was that a 3rd of players are black yet what proportion of managers/coaches/FA administrators etc are black so the bit you didn’t catch was the entire point he was making. From what I have read/ watched he wasnt suggesting there was a lack of black players.

Must have heard different then, and as for greed his wage demand at Liverpool he got what he wanted then left the following season for even more. He’s greedy and just for you information the hit you are saying about the lack of coaches and managers how is that the fault of White people

 

[chuckbert]

If you had to extract everything from Britain that was directly or indirectly built from the proceeds of the slave trade there actually wouldn't be too much left. When slavery was abolished in Britain in 1833 it wasn't the case that the slave owners just freed their slaves, the British parliament very handsomely compensated them for their loss of 'assets'. And those now former slave traders were now even wealthier than before and made huge investments in the British economy as a result, and one key investment was the building of the British railway network that we have today. The very railway that many of the protesters have been travelling on to get to and around London in the last few days. So should we now be ripping that up too? How far do you go with all of this?

It's one thing toppling a statue and saying all other like reminders of a past history that in today's society simply isn't acceptable must go too all over the rest of the country, but then you are being hypocritical by passively accepting the benefits and positive factors that the investments in Britain that these unacceptable individuals made. It's very easy to target the individual, but you need to know the full background story and legacy of these people to work out and then possibly realise that for years you may have unknowingly accepted doing something which has enhanced your life but which you now realise was only formed off the back of slave trade money 175-200 years ago, so does that now make it right or wrong to still do it? How extreme does this need to get to completely erase all reference to the slave traders, it's going to need a complete rewrite of history not just the pulling down of a few statues and monuments and changing of street names.

Isn’t Jimmy Saville the modern example of this? Of course no one every suggested knocking down Stoke Mandeville hospital because JS donated so much money there. But given what he did, celebrating his contribution isn’t appropriate. It’s not a rewrite of history, but maybe one day there won’t be the direct link in people’s minds that there would have been visiting the JS wing in the hospital.
You don’t have to eradicate everything in history to avoid celebrating it.

 

[Scotchegg]

Picking up on the Raheem Sterling interview, I do think it is relevant that the number of black players is not reflected in the number of black managers, coaches and others in the sports hierarchy. It is very difficult when looking at isolated cases, but Lampard and Gerrard have both been given great opportunities at the top of the game (even including the year at Derby), whereas Sol Campbell has had to start at the bottom. Is this due to race, or the fact that Sol is a bit of a tit? Probably the latter, but with so few appointments it's difficult to see a way for black managers to get the same opportunities.

Interestingly, having looked at the players to have over 100 games at Oxford, I only noticed Chrissy Allen, Damien Batt, George Lawrence and Yemi as the only black players in the last 40 years. And I think it's only Chrissy who has had a coaching position at the club? (Happy to be corrected).

That appears to be a fairly low representation from a sport which has a much higher proportion of black players than the wider population. Now, that could simply reflect that a club like Oxford has had less stability and therefore the number of players appearing 100+ times is lower than average. It might be that Oxfordshire has a much lower black population than other areas. It could of course be due to many different variables that are all entirely innocent of bias, but is it something we should consider?

I honestly don't see racism in or around our club, or our supporters. But then I'm white. Maybe there are factors that we don't see that need addressing and we shouldn't fear asking difficult questions. We can all learn to do things differently if it's the right thing to do.

 

[m]

Just heard Rajeev Sterling in the BBC news saying there are 509 players in the premier league but only a third are black......how stupid is this boy ffs, if there were better black players than other non black players in the premiership Then there may only be a 3rd non black players...... what a w****r

As @Twiggy85 points out, Sterling's point was that a third of players are black and this doesn't translate into coaching & management.

He wasn't saying there weren't enough black players.

 

[Scotchegg]

how is that the fault of White people

That's kind of the point. If racism, or tolerance is systemic then it doesn't need to be the fault of one white person or another, but an invisible barrier that prevents black people succeeding. It is seeing a black athlete but not a manager, or a black rapper but not in positions at major record companies. It is about not trusting black people with power or allowing them to be in charge of white people. That is where the systemic racism is perhaps more evident.

 

[Essexyellows]

This ain't 'regrets', this is slavery ffs.

He was living between 1636 - 1721.............. there were 50 offences carrying the death penalty.
If you were convicted of stealing more than 12p in those days it was "grand larceny" punishable by death!
In the early 1700`s they thought that was a bit harsh so started shipping them to Australia!

Looking back it is 100% wrong, however he was living at the time when things were far,far different.
It`s how evolution works, sorry to say but stuff happened that, in its context at the time, was acceptable.
You can`t change it 300 years later.

 

[holdsteady]

I think Roofe, Nelson, Dunkley, Fosu, Baptiste would of played over a hundred games for us if they would of stayed, but they were good enough to move up a level and earn more money elsewhere.

Our player turnover during our decline and rise has been huge so that probably explains that anomaly, how many players over the last 25 years have played over a hundred games for us compared to how many players we have had during that time? I reckon it’s a tiny percentage, and the black players who have done that might co relate to the white players if you looked at it.

 

[bashamwonderland]

Lewis Hamilton telling us we need to eradicate racist symbols in society.

BBC article shows him with Mercedes logo on cap ?

 

[bashamwonderland]

That's kind of the point. If racism, or tolerance is systemic then it doesn't need to be the fault of one white person or another, but an invisible barrier that prevents black people succeeding. It is seeing a black athlete but not a manager, or a black rapper but not in positions at major record companies. It is about not trusting black people with power or allowing them to be in charge of white people. That is where the systemic racism is perhaps more evident.

Barrack Obama was the most powerful man on earth.

 

[Gary Baldi]

Probably about a millennium.

Seriously, if you think voting patterns are entrenched in parts of the UK - it's nothing on the US.

Look through the voting on Chicago's last mayoral election, last year. See if you can find a Republican candidate. I can't. At least the top half dozen candidates in terms of first round votes were all democrats.

And to take a different US city - Washington D.C. votes independently in the US presidential elections (and has three electoral college votes). In 2016, Trump received four percent of the vote there. FOUR!!

And of course, if you go to rural parts of Nebraska, Oklahoma, Mississippi etc. then it's flipped. They'd vote for literally anyone there as long as they were representing the GOP.

It's why all nationwide US elections are determined by the actions of the relatively few swing states - the Rust Belt (Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan), a few states on the southern Eastern Seaboard (Florida, North Carolina, Virginia) and possibly a couple of states in the Southwest (Arizona, Nevada, Colorado......although the latter two are going a little more blue).
And even those states are swingy because they're a pretty even mix of cities and rural areas. Taking Pennsylvania for example - Philadelphia is still overwhelmingly Democrat, but there's some very rural counties that are big Trump areas. Which creates a balance that puts the state in play.

I only realised this in their last election - that there is an almost bizarre relationship between poor African Americans in inner cities and those cities being run by Democrats. It's not for me to say it's deliberate or a pure coincidence, but I am surprised that nobody in the Republican party has really pushed the point on a consistent basis - but then again, they need to have candidates who are competent, which I am told is not always the case. Being a MAGA candidate will make it worse...

I am further surprised that the many African American leaders haven't really pushed the point either. There is a distinct advantage to them playing the Republican and Democrat parties off of each other for the African American vote. Make them work for the vote. As soon as one city catches on...

The issue with the Democrats and rural communities is they are so opposite of each other in policy - God, Guns, etc. It would take a special leader to bridge the gap, and from what I saw of their nomination debates, it ain't there.

 

[bazzer9461]

As @Twiggy85 points out, Sterling's point was that a third of players are black and this doesn't translate into coaching & management.

He wasn't saying there weren't enough black players.

As i said didn’t manage to heat the full transcript of his interview on the tv, but who’s fault is it that the there are not enough BAME in the premiership regarding coaching and management

 

[QR]

If you had to extract everything from Britain that was directly or indirectly built from the proceeds of the slave trade there actually wouldn't be too much left. When slavery was abolished in Britain in 1833 it wasn't the case that the slave owners just freed their slaves, the British parliament very handsomely compensated them for their loss of 'assets'. And those now former slave traders were now even wealthier than before and made huge investments in the British economy as a result, and one key investment was the building of the British railway network that we have today. The very railway that many of the protesters have been travelling on to get to and around London in the last few days. So should we now be ripping that up too? How far do you go with all of this?

It's one thing toppling a statue and saying all other like reminders of a past history that in today's society simply isn't acceptable must go too all over the rest of the country, but then you are being hypocritical by passively accepting the benefits and positive factors that the investments in Britain that these unacceptable individuals made. It's very easy to target the individual, but you need to know the full background story and legacy of these people to work out and then possibly realise that for years you may have unknowingly accepted doing something which has enhanced your life but which you now realise was only formed off the back of slave trade money 175-200 years ago, so does that now make it right or wrong to still do it? How extreme does this need to get to completely erase all reference to the slave traders, it's going to need a complete rewrite of history not just the pulling down of a few statues and monuments and changing of street names.

Is it a rewrite of history that is needed or a correction of history?

 

[Gary Baldi]

That's kind of the point. If racism, or tolerance is systemic then it doesn't need to be the fault of one white person or another, but an invisible barrier that prevents black people succeeding. It is seeing a black athlete but not a manager, or a black rapper but not in positions at major record companies. It is about not trusting black people with power or allowing them to be in charge of white people. That is where the systemic racism is perhaps more evident.

Perhaps one of the unintended consequences of seeking more women and minorities in jobs, management, etc is that there are only so many opportunities available. We don't have infinite roles to give to as many minorities we'd like to.

Apart from the BBC...

Someone's point about Gerrard and Lampard. Both spent in Academies while they were playing and after they retired, doing their badges etc. Gerrard in particular gained a good rep very quickly within Liverpool for being a good man to man manager. And I can well imagine both played the back room game while they were players.

As is his right, Sol Campbell didn't follow that route. Should there be more managers of diverse backgrounds? Yes. But Sterling needs to make a more nuanced point - I get the sentiment of his point, but it requires more detail. After all. lots of white footballers do their badges and don't get a sniff of even an academy role.

 

[Gary Baldi]

Is it a rewrite of history that is needed or a correction of history?

Better to educate people about history, than hide history because of reasons. It also removes the issue of who demands what is removed from history too.

 

[m]

As i said didn’t manage to heat the full transcript of his interview on the tv, but who’s fault is it that the there are not enough BAME in the premiership regarding coaching and management

That's the question Bazzer, I don't know the answer.

 

[YellowTaxi]

Great to see the Johnson backers are also supporters of commemorating the slave owners and traders.

 

[bazzer9461]

Yeh, got that now. Seems Baz's post was not exactly on the money. 'My bad' for not researching before I replied.

Heard the interview again and yes he did say not enough representation in the hierarchy, but why did he say there are 500 players in the premiership but why say “ and only a third are black “ why not say and a third he didn’t have to say “ and only “

 

[Twiggy85]

Heard the interview again and yes he did say not enough representation in the hierarchy, but why did he say there are 500 players in the premiership but why say “ and only a third are black “ why not say and a third he didn’t have to say “ and only “

Hi bazzer - I heard interview this morning and you are correct he did say ‘and only’ though I think he did correct himself immediately afterwards repeating third of black players and dropping the “and only” that’s how I interpreted it, since would be strange to say only in that context. Though don’t think that should take away from the point he was making. Why are there a lack of black people in management, authority and boards - to which there is not an obvious answer and can only conclude that unconscious bias/racism is a significant factor.