International News Black Lives Matter

[Pete Burrett]

He wasn`t in uniform. White, British soldier. The two primary factors were his colour and his career.

Yes, racism is wrong............ humanity, irrespective of colour, religion, social status, wealth or ethnicity is more important.

You know very well what I mean. He may not have actually been wearing a uniform at the time of the attack, but they knew he was a soldier. That's the point. One relevant factor as far as you or I know for sure - his career.

 

[Scotchegg]

I have a question, what does the murder of a man by the police in the USA have to do with us over here? Why protests on the streets over this one when this happens all over the world, police in the US appear pretty bad but they wouldn’t get near the top ten, some of the forces in Latin America etc commit mass murder but don’t get everyone like this.

Is it the US increasing cultural hegemony over here? Our shared language in the age of social media?

With respect, that's like saying what does starving children in Africa have to do with you here! And then saying that you missed lunch once too to show that it'snot easy for anyone!!

 

[holdsteady]

With respect, that's like saying what does starving children in Africa have to do with you here! And then saying that you missed lunch once too to show that it'snot easy for anyone!!

I haven’t said that at all? My point was that why do only these cases of police murder (it was murder and I am glad to see that he is being charged) in the US get people worked up not the many, many, many around the world? Not certain what my diet and Africa have to do with that.

 

[amershamdave]

The officer had his knee on a man's neck. The man was handcuffed. What harm could the man had done, being handcuffed?

 

[Peterdev]

That is what made the attack truly disgusting. Carried out by the police. On someone who was defenceless

 

[Scotchegg]

The officer had his knee on a man's neck. The man was handcuffed. What harm could the man had done, being handcuffed?

Virtually none. He could have been sat up, against the police car with no risk to anyone. And this would have almost certainly have been the case if he was white. And let's not forget that his "crime" was apparently using a dodgy $20 note. He had no weapons, was not resisting, and was no threat to anyone.

And for those (not you Dave) saying why here, why now?

Imagine that during the 80's, when football hooliganism was far more prevalent, if football fans were being killed by aggressive policing. Imagine that this was excused by others who pointed out that football fans were scum, that they would often fight with each other anyway, and therefore they somehow deserved everything they got. Imagine then that at a club far from here, one fan, a family man, was killed by overzealous police on his way to a game, and that was filmed and shown over and over again on all media forms.

Would we as football fans stand up to this, and protest that we were treated as nothing more than second class citizens, simply because of our choice of sport?

If that movement was called Football Fans Matter, would you not get involved because it wasn't our club? Would you moan and say what about Rugby Fans? Don't all sport fans matter?

It really shouldn't be hard to understand.

 

[bashamwonderland]

Just out of interest a few years ago a saw a disturbing video of a young white man in a hotel in the US who had been reported for being armed (he had a BB gun in his room). He was drunk when the SWAT team were trying to get him to lay down/put his hands on his head etc. and their instructions were not clear. In an intoxicated state, whilst crying and telling the police he didn't know what he was supposed to be doing, this guy misunderstood one of the instructions given to him and the officer just shot him to death right there in the hotel.

Hopefully the change which comes here is a change in policing style. But then you open another tricky debate about gun control and this whole issue just seems unfixable.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

First of all there has been plenty of outrage about the amount of black people being killed both in America and over here. Look at the anti-knife crime programmes, people going into schools etc to try and teach kids that it is wrong. So to say that no-one cares or nothing is being done is incorrect.

Secondly of course there is more anger when it is a police officer doing it - if a member of my family was killed by a random murderer I’d be angry and devastated and would want justice, but if it was a member of the police or some other official body I’d be more angry in the sense that I’d expect that not to ever conceivably happen and would be more demanding of answers and assurances that this will never happen again.

Finally, in America at least, this isn’t just about this one murder for black people, or even all of the black people killed by police officers. It’s the black people who are told they can’t sit in the pool complex where they live, or who are denied entry to their own apartment building by other residents, or who are told they can’t barbecue in an area which is designated for that very thing. Within living memory a black man was tortured and killed for attempting to flirt with a while woman, his killers were acquitted and later were published in an article admitting it. Black people in America legitimately feel like they are discriminated against and being effectively summarily executed in the street has tipped things over.

Lee Rigby was killed by individuals, not an organisation, for extreme Islamist reasons, not racial, and there were in fact protests and an anti-Islam backlash after it, so not only is it a false comparison, it’s also wrong on both levels.

 

[QR]

Not always about cars and girls.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

I think it was called Hillsborough and we didn't go around rioting or looting in the streets .
It took years for justice to be served but it was without violence or any more deaths .
I know many black friends who have succeeded and have not been held back , many others who have not. Family, stability, of course major factors . coming to a country with nothing is hard but expected to be hard . Drug and gangster culture needs to be strongly stamped out buy so often isn't.

 

[Scotchegg]

I think it was called Hillsborough and we didn't go around rioting or looting in the streets .
It took years for justice to be served but it was without violence or any more deaths .
I know many black friends who have succeeded and have not been held back , many others who have not. Family, stability, of course major factors . coming to a country with nothing is hard but expected to be hard . Drug and gangster culture needs to be strongly stamped out buy so often isn't.

So completely wide of the mark I'm afraid.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

So completely wide of the mark I'm afraid.

Why , because you don't agree . There are reasons however unpleasant that need to be addressed . Why so many from a broken home , it's tragic that every week young kids chase others down and stab them to death . Think about that...it's awful but no outcry at all .

 

[Scotchegg]

Why , because you don't agree . There are reasons however unpleasant that need to be addressed . Why so many from a broken home , it's tragic that every week young kids chase others down and stab them to death . Think about that...it's awful but no outcry at all .

Think about it? I work with the outcome of it every day! But it is naive to see crime as a race issue alone.

The highest density of black and ethnic minorities live in some of the poorest and under developed parts of this country. Schools are some of the worst, there are very few opportunities for wrap around care for children with breakfast/after school clubs. Youth clubs are limited. There are far fewer open spaces.

So many young Black/Asian children grow up in poverty, with poor education, few opportunities, and little in the way of hope. So that pushes people to the edges of society where it becomes dog eat dog. But the colour of your skin makes no difference. All kids would struggle in that environment.

Of course some succeed, but then some people from privileged backgrounds fail. That's not the point. The point is that on almost every level you care to look at regarding social development and opportunities in the UK, white people have significantly more advantages than those from other races.

 

[Wallop]

I think Trump should accept some of the blame for the fallout here.
He should have immediately made a statement that the police officers arrested will be dealt with and he stands firmly against racism.
instead he announces he will draft in more police to deal with what has happened, spiking the risk of riots throughout the USA.
I’m sorry, Donald, you’re a clown and have been ingesting too much bleach.

Good luck with that! He doesn’t do self-blame if any kind.

 

[Marked Ox]

Think about it? I work with the outcome of it every day! But it is naive to see crime as a race issue alone.

The highest density of black and ethnic minorities live in some of the poorest and under developed parts of this country. Schools are some of the worst, there are very few opportunities for wrap around care for children with breakfast/after school clubs. Youth clubs are limited. There are far fewer open spaces.

So many young Black/Asian children grow up in poverty, with poor education, few opportunities, and little in the way of hope. So that pushes people to the edges of society where it becomes dog eat dog. But the colour of your skin makes no difference. All kids would struggle in that environment.

Of course some succeed, but then some people from privileged backgrounds fail. That's not the point. The point is that on almost every level you care to look at regarding social development and opportunities in the UK, white people have significantly more advantages than those from other races.

Unsurprisingly the massive cut in funding of Youth services has had a major impact and short term decision making from Central Govt to save money has cost far more longer term.

 

[Scotchegg]

Unsurprisingly the massive cut in funding of Youth services has had a major impact and short term decision making from Central Govt to save money has cost far more longer term.

There have been years of failures (across all political parties) that have led us to where we are today. But you are right that short term cuts usually lead to far greater long term costs.

It really needs cross party support to look at reducing inequality for the next generation and beyond, but sadly can't ever see that happening.

 

[QR]

Think about it? I work with the outcome of it every day! But it is naive to see crime as a race issue alone.

The highest density of black and ethnic minorities live in some of the poorest and under developed parts of this country. Schools are some of the worst, there are very few opportunities for wrap around care for children with breakfast/after school clubs. Youth clubs are limited. There are far fewer open spaces.

So many young Black/Asian children grow up in poverty, with poor education, few opportunities, and little in the way of hope. So that pushes people to the edges of society where it becomes dog eat dog. But the colour of your skin makes no difference. All kids would struggle in that environment.

Of course some succeed, but then some people from privileged backgrounds fail. That's not the point. The point is that on almost every level you care to look at regarding social development and opportunities in the UK, white people have significantly more advantages than those from other races.

Scottegg. RESPECT ?

 

[Marked Ox]

There have been years of failures (across all political parties) that have led us to where we are today. But you are right that short term cuts usually lead to far greater long term costs.

It really needs cross party support to look at reducing inequality for the next generation and beyond, but sadly can't ever see that happening.

Indeed. Iirc the 1st real cuts in youth work came about through Councils having to transfer resources to cover other priorities set by the Labour Govt. The Labour Govt at the time had a habit of setting priorities that Councils had to deliver without giving them much in financial resources to do so.

 

[Essexyellows]

You know very well what I mean. He may not have actually been wearing a uniform at the time of the attack, but they knew he was a soldier. That's the point. One relevant factor as far as you or I know for sure - his career.

OK, so where is the evidence that the policeman was kneeling on George Floyds neck because he was black and not just because the policeman was an out of control thug?

Its a fact that George was a black criminal, the same as it was a fact Lee was a white soldier.

That is where I struggle with perceived and actual racism. Are "we" all just looking at White Cop + Black Victim = Racist?

 

[QR]

OK, so where is the evidence that the policeman was kneeling on George Floyds neck because he was black and not just because the policeman was an out of control thug?

Its a fact that George was a black criminal, the same as it was a fact Lee was a white soldier.

That is where I struggle with perceived and actual racism. Are "we" all just looking at White Cop + Black Victim = Racist?

I think there's about 400 years of evidence.