International News Black Lives Matter

Essexyellows said:
Valid question TBH.
Black person kills other black person - nothing.
White policeman kills black person - chaos.

"Almost half of murder victims and murder suspects in the capital are young black men - way out of proportion to London's population, in which 13% are black. "
news.sky.com

'This war won't end': London gang murders on the rise

A Sky News investigation has uncovered the deadly impact gang warfare is having on young lives in the capital.
news.sky.com news.sky.com

Black lives matter though?
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But that's not it.

If a white policeman kills a black person or a white person or any person at all, then they have to be investigated properly - no matter the colour of the person who has died. The perception is that the white policeman in this case was NOT investigated and prosecuted BECAUSE the victim was black. And that has seemingly confirmed the idea many people have that many American police forces are endemically racist.

I'd like to think that all of the murders in London are investigated as far as they can be, whatever the colour of the victim's skin - those statistics are awful however, and shows how much gang/drug violence there is in some parts of our own capital city. It's a different problem to the above though.
 
There is a serious crime and violence epidemic in London between crime gangs, some from Africa, Caribbean and Europe. It hasn't gone away. There are Twitter account dedicated to eye witness videos of crime and none of it great watching.

For all of the well meaning people that are out protesting, the harsh reality is their ire is largely focused in the wrong direction.
 
ZeroTheHero said:
But that's not it.

If a white policeman kills a black person or a white person or any person at all, then they have to be investigated properly - no matter the colour of the person who has died. The perception is that the white policeman in this case was NOT investigated and prosecuted BECAUSE the victim was black. And that has seemingly confirmed the idea many people have that many American police forces are endemically racist.

I'd like to think that all of the murders in London are investigated as far as they can be, whatever the colour of the victim's skin - those statistics are awful however, and shows how much gang/drug violence there is in some parts of our own capital city. It's a different problem to the above though.
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I actually they are closely interlinked and the attitudes of a small minority of police are borne from dealing with the gang violence and the impacts it has on communities. It's not right, but I guess that is a small part of a more complex reality.
 
I think the point is that if people feel equal and as though they aren’t targets or second class citizens, they themselves would be more likely to not turn to crime or violence. Holding up black on black crime as a reason for this being double standards is missing the point. We should be asking what it is that creates an environment, a culture and a society where people of certain ethnicity feel more inclined to turn to that sort of lifestyle, because it could well be the systemic anger they feel which comes from their treatment, or the fact that they feel targeted or discriminated against. Which historically we know is true. You don’t just pull up your socks and let go of that, especially when you feel the playing field still isn’t level and you’re still treated differently. It’s all linked. Pointing at minority crime rates doesn’t discredit the argument, it strengthens it because it makes people ask why.
 
It's not at all. Because if you implicitly, or explicitly, exclude some cultural issues, you are then you are prone to mishaps or bad policy decisions. So many young black children are killed in gang and other inner city violence - it's a daily occurrence and it barely raises a heartbeat for activists. How many of those crimes are unsolved? Too many and what does that breed? Anger, distrust and revenge. It's just one facet of black and black violence.

Who is asked to manage that? The police at the coal face. The role has become more complex as societies needs have become more complex.

You can reform the police all you want, but that won't solve the Black Lives Matter issue IMHO.
 
Hackney Jack said:
Agreed with this. Maybe the poster needs to watch the videos of the killing, and also read what previous the murderer has...
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Does the manner in which a murder is committed create a different attitude?
All murders are horrific whoever the perpetrator or victim is.
My point is why isn’t more done in this country to stop the killing in London, black people are getting killed and there is general apathy around it from all sides.
 
You're right that all murders are horrific, whatever the circumstance. To intentionally take someones life is a terrible act to even consider, let alone perpetrate

What makes this so so much worse is that he was murdered by someone who has taken an oath to serve and protect him to the same extent as every other human being he is under oath to serve and protect.

I very much think it does make a difference and it belies the fact that in those very institutions who have that responsibility, there still exists in some form or another an undercurrent of racism which every now and again surface with terrible consequences. Progress has obviously been made, but not enough if this keeps on happening.

Neither murder is OK (obvs), but as with all offices of public service, you should expect the highest levels of responsibility, probity, honesty and integrity in the service of all citizens - how else can we expect society to be better if those that serve can;t set that example?
 
Scotchegg said:
Prior to recent events I would have argued that ALL lives matter and that any suggestion otherwise was simply playing the race card. However, the more I've seen of things happening in America, and reading the experiences of ethnic minorities both in the US and the UK I now believe that racism still exists in all aspects of society.

The vast majority of ethnic minorities in the UK live in the poorest communities, with the worst schools and limited opportunities to escape from this. Role models outside of sport and music are rare, and many families are broken.

A far greater proportion of those from these backgrounds end up in prison. People aren't born bad, so the environments they grow up in must contribute to the lifestyles people lead.

For too long, we see the actions of our ethnic minorities without taking any responsibility for what has created divisions. Tony Blair famously said "Tough on Crime, Tough on the Causes of Crime" but did absolutely nothing to address these issues.

Maybe it's time we took seriously the idea that Black Lives Matter, and accept that even in the 21st century the colour of your skin dramatically affects the opportunities open to you.
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it doesn’t help when part of the problem is the leader of the the free world.....well supposed leader of the free world
 
I’d like to know why all of the sudden people are protesting in this country, just because of what’s happened to the innocent black man in the USA.

You see on the front page of the Oxford Mail and a woman holding a board say “black lives matter” yes they do is my response, but so do White lives! I think what has happened is appalling from the Minneapolis police department, and they should be punished.

But at the same time, I don’t recall black people going around saying White lives matter, when Lee Rigby was butchered in broad daylight.
 
Leysboy said:
But at the same time, I don’t recall black people going around saying White lives matter, when Lee Rigby was butchered in broad daylight.
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You do realise how completely irrelevant that comment is? The Floyd incident is the latest example of white (police) on black (citizens) brutality. It was a racist incident. Lee Rigby's murder was by Islamic extremists. Colour of skin was irrelevant. It was not a racist incident.
 
Pete Burrett said:
The Rigby incident was the latest example of Black (religious fanatic) on White (citizens) brutality. It was a racist incident. George Floyd`s murder was by law enforcement extremists. Colour of skin was irrelevant. It was not a racist incident
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How easy.............. he was selected because he was a White, British soldier. That is racism or they would have waited for a black soldier.

Racism goes both ways.
 
Essexyellows said:
How easy.............. he was selected because he was a White, British soldier. That is racism or they would have waited for a black soldier.

Racism goes both ways.
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You have no idea whether that's true or not. He was certainly selected because he was a British soldier. Where's your evidence that he was selected for being a white British soldier? The uniform was the target. Neither of us has any idea whether his colour was a contributory factor or not. You do yourself a disservice for suggesting it was.

Racism goes both ways and is always wrong. THere's no evidence that the Rigby killing was racist.
 
There are wrong doings carried out against all races, by all races. That isn't the point.

The issue is with societies where the colour of your skin directly affects your ability to succeed. Where the colour of your skin means you will likely receive a second class education system. Where the colour of your skin makes you poorer. Where the colour of your skin means you are far more likely to be arrested, to go to prison, and for longer. Where the colour of your skin means that you are seen as being a threat to others for no other reason. Where the colour of your skin means that you are treated differently to others.

Accepting this doesn't make you racist. Most people are not. But that doesn't mean that these inequalities don't exist, and that we can't all be responsible for making changes.
 
Pete Burrett said:
You do realise how completely irrelevant that comment is? The Floyd incident is the latest example of white (police) on black (citizens) brutality. It was a racist incident. Lee Rigby's murder was by Islamic extremists. Colour of skin was irrelevant. It was not a racist incident.
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I agree with essexyellows that Lee Rigby was targeted not only by uniform, but because he was white too.

Anyway, in America you will always have a tug of war over racial murders etc. Black people or gang members kill law enforcement officers all the time in different states, and then you get the odd number of police officers killing a black person. But my point is it’s highlighted more when a black person is killed rather than a police officer being killed by a black person. Why...

In my opinion both are awful, and very wrong! But in that country it will never change. People go to jail for gods sake. The first thing they do is join a gang for mixing in and protection. Whites stick together Arianbrotherhood or something like that. Then you get the blacks together. Names like Cripps, and Bloods etc. Then you get the Latin Americans, and Hispanics. It will never change unfortunately.
 
Leysboy said:
I agree with essexyellows that Lee Rigby was targeted not only by uniform, but because he was white too.
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You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But that's all it is - an opinion rather than a fact. He was definitely targeted for being a soldier. No-one knows whether he was targeted for being white. The killers have never said that was the case.
 
Pete Burrett said:
You have no idea whether that's true or not. He was certainly selected because he was a British soldier. Where's your evidence that he was selected for being a white British soldier? The uniform was the target. Neither of us has any idea whether his colour was a contributory factor or not. You do yourself a disservice for suggesting it was.

Racism goes both ways and is always wrong. THere's no evidence that the Rigby killing was racist.
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He wasn`t in uniform. White, British soldier. The two primary factors were his colour and his career.

Yes, racism is wrong............ humanity, irrespective of colour, religion, social status, wealth or ethnicity is more important.
 
I have a question, what does the murder of a man by the police in the USA have to do with us over here? Why protests on the streets over this one when this happens all over the world, police in the US appear pretty bad but they wouldn’t get near the top ten, some of the forces in Latin America etc commit mass murder but don’t get everyone like this.

Is it the US increasing cultural hegemony over here? Our shared language in the age of social media?
 
The Lee Rigby situation is difficult as he was targeted for being a symbol of British involvement in overseas conflicts. So whilst race wasn't a predominant factor, a white British soldier was maybe a more obvious target for their perverse anti-western agenda.

But none of this has any relevance to Black Lives Matters!
 
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