General Around the leagues

[West Oxon U’s]

 

[Peterdev]

Rowett surely to try and keep em up

Going for three clubs in twelve months

 

[SamLongSlidingTackle]

Just a nice video about Pep and a fan from insta

 

[unification]

Arsenal lose the Champions League final in the most Arsenal way possible - on penalties to the universally adored Qatar-owned PSG. Did the Qataris lose their way to Manchester United? I thought a takeover was imminent c. 2010?

(I know this is actually a Cup competition rather than League - well, except for the first part - but since no one is really that bothered by the UCL, I’ll put it here.)

 

[werthersoriginal]

Arsenal lose the Champions League final in the most Arsenal way possible - on penalties to the universally adored Qatar-owned PSG. Did the Qataris lose their way to Manchester United? I thought a takeover was imminent c. 2010?

(I know this is actually a Cup competition rather than League - well, except for the first part - but since no one is really that bothered by the UCL, I’ll put it here.)

I’m not a fan of Arsenal (load of whingers) but I know a few Gunners so it’s a shame. Not exactly a thrilling fame for the neutral.

 

[tonyw]

Useful info for England, mind.......if we end up in a penalty shootout next month, Declan can take one but Eze needs escorting as far away from the penalty spot as possible.

(similar intelligence for Brazil with Gabriel!)

 

[Foley]

I wanted Arsenal to win.
But.... at that level missing the target for 2 out of 5 penalties is shocking.
What the f*** was Eze doing ( well he was waiting for the keeper to commit, but when he didnt, blasted it past the post)
These are top top players supposedly.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Arsenal deserved exactly what they got. Their style of football is dreadful (although admittedly effective) - dull, without flair or excitement.

 

[Raymond O'Leary]

Agreed. Not good enough to score more goals in normal time or extra time. Not good enough to score more penalties. Not good enough to hit the left/right, top/bottom corner with five penalties out of five. Admittedly under massive pressure but isn't that what 10+ years of training should be about?
Little lasses of about 13 in Olympic rhythmic gymnastics can launch a hoop/ball/whatever from one corner of a mat so accurately that they can perform a handspring/cartwheel/forward roll and catch it in the other corner behind their back.
There is no excuse for a crap penalty. It's what you have trained for since you were a boy.
Which is why I don't understand hitting the first defender at a corner.

 

[tonyw]

As a former member of the goalkeeper’s union, I would always look at the penalty spot and think ‘How the hell does a professional footballer ever miss the goal from there?!?’

Occasionally the goalkeeper does something great - like the one that Raya saved. But to miss the goal is criminal, pressure or no….

 

[werthersoriginal]

Just put your foot through it! Do a Moody! The commentators were dreadful but I agreed on that.

 

[Emilio]

(load of whingers)

No Karl, he said "wingers", with a "h".

 

[Eric Blair]

Just put your foot through it! Do a Moody! The commentators were dreadful but I agreed on that.

Agreed. Old school. Leather it. Laces through the ball.

 

[chuckbert]

As a former member of the goalkeeper’s union, I would always look at the penalty spot and think ‘How the hell does a professional footballer ever miss the goal from there?!?’

Occasionally the goalkeeper does something great - like the one that Raya saved. But to miss the goal is criminal, pressure or no….

My boys u18 team won a cup game via pens yesterday. His team’s keeper made 2 excellent saves at full stretch, but all 8 pens taken were on target and solid well placed kicks. A credit to both teams. If some 2nd division kids can do it …

 

[West Oxon U’s]

 

[Toe knee]

That eze penalty has got to be one of the most shocking misses ever. From the minute he started shuffling on the spot then the stuttering you knew he was missing.. just hit the bloody thing...

 

[Sarge]

that was a poor CL final ( with 2 really rubbish pens from Arsenal in the shootout)

referee clamped down on Arsenal's time-wasting, but suprisingly didnt give a 2nd yellow for the foul that resulted in PSVs pen in the 2nd half

 

[Marked Ox]

that was a poor CL final ( with 2 really rubbish pens from Arsenal in the shootout)

referee clamped down on Arsenal's time-wasting, but suprisingly didnt give a 2nd yellow for the foul that resulted in PSVs pen in the 2nd half

Who were PSV playing?

The Ref got that penalty decision spot on for me. Was a penalty but nowhere near enough for a booking.

Ref was pretty good on the time wasting but missed an obvious early yellow card for PSG when their player deliberately threw the ball away to slow Arsenal down. Great to see him give a foul throw in a CL Final. Also, can see why he didn't give Arsenal a penalty and VAR didn't recommend a review.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Who were PSV playing?

The Ref got that penalty decision spot on for me. Was a penalty but nowhere near enough for a booking.

Ref was pretty good on the time wasting but missed an obvious early yellow card for PSG when their player deliberately threw the ball away to slow Arsenal down. Great to see him give a foul throw in a CL Final. Also, can see why he didn't give Arsenal a penalty and VAR didn't recommend a review.

PSG should have had a penalty when Saka blatantly handled, whereas Arsenal’s shout was pretty feeble.

 

[Marked Ox]

PSG should have had a penalty when Saka blatantly handled, whereas Arsenal’s shout was pretty feeble.

Nah. That wasn't a penalty for me. The ball bounces off him onto the arm which is swinging through due to counter the leg after a missed hoof attempt.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Nah. That wasn't a penalty for me. The ball bounces off him onto the arm which is swinging through due to counter the leg after a missed hoof attempt.

I’ve certainly seen them given Gary. Personally I’d abolish penalties in ordinary play, they have too much significance.

 

[Marked Ox]

I’ve certainly seen them given Gary. Personally I’d abolish penalties in ordinary play, they have too much significance.

Yes definitely seen them given but I'd be complaining about them rather than this one.

Handball needs to go back to deliberate or not deliberate. It is subjective but then the current rules are pretty much as well.

The use of 'natural position' in football to justify whether it is handball or not is absolutely ridiculous and can often bear no relation to the movement a player is making.

 

[tonyw]

Yes definitely seen them given but I'd be complaining about them rather than this one.

Handball needs to go back to deliberate or not deliberate. It is subjective but then the current rules are pretty much as well.

The use of 'natural position' in football to justify whether it is handball or not is absolutely ridiculous and can often bear no relation to the movement a player is making.

The current rule is way too finicky.

But I also think that deliberate/not deliberate is not quite right either.

If someone rushes out to block a shot, and they've got their hands above their head......if the forward whacks the ball off their hand, it's not deliberate per se (because they didn't have time to think, move their arm towards the ball and actively try and handle it) but it should be handball.

It's got to be some middle ground where you don't get penalties awarded for some double ricochets where the defender had no idea where the ball was......but you also don't have defenders rushing out like they're doing star jumps every time a forward gets near the goal.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Wasn't it always the case though that a defender waving their hands in the air would have had a pen given against them though if the ball hit it? The problem now (or at least one of them!) is that they have brought in this natural / unnatural position malarkey. They then show every defender jumping in super slow motion and say that unless their arms are virtually glued to their sides a la Riverdance, then the arms are in an unnatural position?

I'd say a defender doing star jumps or running out with their arms above their heads is 'deliberate' in this case, since they'd be seeking an unfair advantage by doing so. (Yes, I know you were exaggerating to make your point )

 

[tonyw]

Wasn't it always the case though that a defender waving their hands in the air would have had a pen given against them though if the ball hit it? The problem now (or at least one of them!) is that they have brought in this natural / unnatural position malarkey. They then show every defender jumping in super slow motion and say that unless their arms are virtually glued to their sides a la Riverdance, then the arms are in an unnatural position?

I'd say a defender doing star jumps or running out with their arms above their heads is 'deliberate' in this case, since they'd be seeking an unfair advantage by doing so. (Yes, I know you were exaggerating to make your point )

So then we're in a situation where the question for a referee is "Are this player's arms away from his sides because he needs them to be to jump, or because he's trying to make himself bigger to block a shot/cross?"

Some will be obvious, but there's going to be a lot of decisions at the margins. And in some ways it feels worse to me to have a referee trying to decide what was going on in a player's head. At least there's some objectivity about just making the decision based on whether an arm is out or not.....even if it does lead to some extremely soft penalties.

Anyways, not saying I love the current law. Just saying I don't think it's as simple to correct as people make out!

 

[Foley]

The current handball rule in my view is terrible.
A 90% of a goal given for a total accident just doesn't give the right punishment in my view.....

 

[Marked Ox]

Wasn't it always the case though that a defender waving their hands in the air would have had a pen given against them though if the ball hit it? The problem now (or at least one of them!) is that they have brought in this natural / unnatural position malarkey. They then show every defender jumping in super slow motion and say that unless their arms are virtually glued to their sides a la Riverdance, then the arms are in an unnatural position?

I'd say a defender doing star jumps or running out with their arms above their heads is 'deliberate' in this case, since they'd be seeking an unfair advantage by doing so. (Yes, I know you were exaggerating to make your point )

Yes. When I was reffing it would have been considered deliberate.

 

[Marked Ox]

So then we're in a situation where the question for a referee is "Are this player's arms away from his sides because he needs them to be to jump, or because he's trying to make himself bigger to block a shot/cross?"

Some will be obvious, but there's going to be a lot of decisions at the margins. And in some ways it feels worse to me to have a referee trying to decide what was going on in a player's head. At least there's some objectivity about just making the decision based on whether an arm is out or not.....even if it does lead to some extremely soft penalties.

Anyways, not saying I love the current law. Just saying I don't think it's as simple to correct as people make out!

The only way to have objectivity is to say if it hits the arm/hand then it is penalised regardless of deliberate/not deliberate/natural/unnatural.

There is lots of subjectivity in handball decisions now with the present rules, and the interpretations seem to change on a regular basis. That is just in one competition and then Europe competitions have a different interpretation.

Is deciding intent really any different from Refs having to become experts in body movement? Which considering the variety of decisions made, they as a group aren't becoming even with football's warped view of natural/unnatural.

Nevermind if it is played by a defender into another defender, at what point did it hit the forward's arm in the attack etc etc.

 

[SteMerritt]

Wasn't it always the case though that a defender waving their hands in the air would have had a pen given against them though if the ball hit it?

Stuart Pearce v Switzerland, Euro 96, comes instantly to mind.

 

[West Oxon U’s]

Michael Skubala’s first Bristol City interview: