Ex Player Appleton on why he left OUFC

[Sarge]

Firstly, I don't enjoy it for nothing, I pay the Spotify fee. And yes, I should be able to enjoy it whilst Spotify are willing to provide it at a price I am willing to pay and the artists are willing to allow Spotify to do so. If Spotify charged more than that enjoyment was worth to me, I wouldn't pay it and I'd do without. Someone else would get my money for providing something else.

Is it immoral to listen to the radio and not pay for the privilege?



That isn't a fair analogy.

Should people be forced to pay £500 to watch a single IFollow match so that Oxford can cover their costs?

Doesnt the bbc licence fee include bbc radio ? .....commercial radio is obviously funded by advertisers .....Radio is paid for isnt it?

 

[SteMerritt]

I love vinyl, I get to see as many bands as I can, I also have a Spotify subscription. Spotify is a discovery tool for new music, and a convenience when out and about.

Recent example would be Killing Roy. New young band, saw them mentioned in one of the indie blogs I read. Go to Spotify and play their stuff. Pretty good, share on FB, follow the band, the next step would be get to gig in a normal year. They have been picked up on one of Spotify's curated lists so potential new listeners, more exposure. And hopefully in a year all going well, an LP, to purchase on vinyl... I've found Spotify fantastic for new discoveries.

 

[Sarge]

I love vinyl, I get to see as many bands as I can, I also have a Spotify subscription. Spotify is a discovery tool for new music, and a convenience when out and about.

Recent example would be Killing Roy. New young band, saw them mentioned in one of the indie blogs I read. Go to Spotify and play their stuff. Pretty good, share on FB, follow the band, the next step would be get to gig in a normal year. They have been picked up on one of Spotify's curated lists so potential new listeners, more exposure. And hopefully in a year all going well, an LP, to purchase on vinyl... I've found Spotify fantastic for new discoveries.

Im with ya re Vinyl & new bands, as well as seeing em live @SteMerritt .... Spotify is an app too far for me ( like Instagram, Snapchat, etc etc ) ....that said Im 'lucky' in my day job as I get sent review copies of new releases ( released on formats that you can physically hold) and have a variety of music pr companies and similar informing me about new bands , old ones too with material coming out, live dates etc ..... limiting your potential fanbase as opposed to reaching the widest possible 'market' via formats/platforms that are hassle free to access seems a strange way to go about things to me

Im no spring chicken these days , (sadly), so what would I know regarding whats going down with the yoof of today?

 

[m]

Im with ya re Vinyl & new bands, as well as seeing em live @SteMerritt
Im no spring chicken these days , (sadly), so what would I know regarding whats going down with the yoof of today?

Tough isn't it?

I reached the conclusion some time ago though that the only thing sadder than being a middle-aged man constantly trying to be down wiv da kidz, is a being a middle-aged man who has lost the desire to find out about new music!

I'm happy with my decision.

 

[SteMerritt]

Im with ya re Vinyl & new bands, as well as seeing em live @SteMerritt .... Spotify is an app too far for me ( like Instagram, Snapchat, etc etc ) ....that said Im 'lucky' in my day job as I get sent review copies of new releases ( released on formats that you can physically hold) and have a variety of music pr companies and similar informing me about new bands , old ones too with material coming out, live dates etc ..... limiting your potential fanbase as opposed to reaching the widest possible 'market' via formats/platforms that are hassle free to access seems a strange way to go about things to me

Im no spring chicken these days , (sadly), so what would I know regarding whats going down with the yoof of today?

I fall between the two stools I think. Love a physical disk, nothing beats dropping a needle onto a run in and sitting back sat between two decent speakers and just listening. But also I like the convenience of the digital world, strap on my runners, headphones in and hit random on my Spotify and run for a couple of hours. Sound quality not as important for that.

There are people who sit down and listen to music, then there are people who have music on whilst they do other things. Spotify is good for that. Unfortunately that's most of the country these days.

Never change @Sarge, listening to music properly will not die out. There is something magical about putting a record on, following the lyrics from the sleeve, and letting the sound flow over you.

 

[Sarge]

Tough isn't it?

I reached the conclusion some time ago though that the only thing sadder than being a middle-aged man constantly trying to be down wiv da kidz, is a being a middle-aged man who has lost the desire to find out about new music!

I'm happy with my decision.

innit

 

[chuckbert]

Im with ya re Vinyl & new bands, as well as seeing em live @SteMerritt .... Spotify is an app too far for me ( like Instagram, Snapchat, etc etc ) ....that said Im 'lucky' in my day job as I get sent review copies of new releases ( released on formats that you can physically hold) and have a variety of music pr companies and similar informing me about new bands , old ones too with material coming out, live dates etc ..... limiting your potential fanbase as opposed to reaching the widest possible 'market' via formats/platforms that are hassle free to access seems a strange way to go about things to me

Im no spring chicken these days , (sadly), so what would I know regarding whats going down with the yoof of today?

I’m almost fully with you - I like to support bands and buy their music. The thing is I ripped all my cds and a lot of my records so that I could easily listen to it on various computers and devices. Then I discovered that most of it was already on Spotify. I now find it easier to listen to a lot if it in Spotify and like SM says, you can discover new (and old) stuff.
I think Spotify might not be what you think it is. It really isn’t any kind of social media or sharing platform, it is simply a library of a huge amount of music you can access easily.
EY is correct that artists don’t get much return other than potential exposure and a few cents, but this has always been the case with some people buying albums and their mates taping them. The industry didn’t like it but it was actually good for many bands popularity. I had hundreds of taped albums as a kid and very few bought ones. Now I have 1000+ of bought ones.

 

[MarkG]

Is the podcast really 71 minutes? I thought I might have a listen over lunch but that seems a very long interview for what at first glance seems like a ten minute at most subject.

 

[Fanatica]

Lets add Spotify to the growing list of things Yellowsforum doesn't understand.

 

[Essexyellows]

Lets add Spotify to the growing list of things Yellowsforum doesn't understand.

I understand perfectly well thank you.
That I choose not to engage with it is only reflective of my thoughts.
That is why this place has a broad spectrum of views and, generally, sensible discussions.
Unlike those who "follow" the OP on Twatter whose one line response is "Bunch of knobheads" or shite memes of tinfoil hats.

 

[Sarge]

I understand perfectly well thank you.
That I choose not to engage with it is only reflective of my thoughts.
That is why this place has a broad spectrum of views and, generally, sensible discussions.
Unlike those who "follow" the OP on Twatter whose one line response is "Bunch of knobheads" or shite memes of tinfoil hats.

yep ^^

 

[beyondthefourth]

Lets add Spotify to the growing list of things Yellowsforum doesn't understand.

Jamie Mackie breached the TikTok barrier during lockdown, we're all getting dragged into Generation Z whether we like it or not ?

 

[Marked Ox]

Jamie Mackie breached the TikTok barrier during lockdown, we're all getting dragged into Generation Z whether we like it or not ?

We're getting dragged into a Chinese state propaganda tool then with TikTok. Jamie Mackie the arch spy .

 

[beyondthefourth]

We're getting dragged into a Chinese state propaganda tool then with TikTok. Jamie Mackie the arch spy .

Like when Dennis Rodman was practically America's ambassador to North Korea, because he was good friends with Kim Jong Un?

 

[SteMerritt]

I'm not sensitive, I just didn't expect a debate on Spotify's business model to break out! I'm glad some enjoyed.

Things do go off on weird tangents on here, it happens a lot.

Thanks for the heads up on your podcast, I have it queued and will take a listen this afternoon.

 

[Big Ron]

The problem with bloody Spotify (as opposed to buying the track either physically or digitally) is the completely risible level of royalties they pay to the artists. Yes, you can sign up for a free account and listen to endless music - but if 100,000 people listen to a track, Spotify will pay out about £350. Then the label, management and distributors will take a good slice of that before the artist gets anything at all. If the track was 10p to purchase, you could play it as much as you like and the artist etc would get £10,000 for 100,000 sales.

I work for a middling sized record company and I can verify that a million Spotify streams generate between £3,500 and £4,000, depending on the company involved. What the artist gets obviously depends on the deal but you can bet that anyone with pre-2000 deal is probably getting between 5% and 15% of that, unless they are a big enough name to have been able to re-negotiate. Modern deals can mean the artist getting a much more reasonable 30% or even in some cases, 50% of the revenue. Spotify also pay out less than Apple and most of the other services.

Streaming is one part of the income flow - there are also downloads (declining rapidly), physical goods (fast becoming a niche market but still there), performance (ie radio & TV) and what is called 'synchronisation', which is putting music in TV programmes, films, ads, games, podcasts), etc. To that you can add merchandise and live touring (which is obviously fecked at the moment).

The big acts, particularly US rap, hip hop and R&B acts, can still make big money from streaming, as do the likes of Dua Lipa, Ed Sheeran, Calvin Harris, Coldplay, etc. They regularly have tracks that stream in excess of 300 million times - 300 x £4,000 = £1.2m. 25% of that is £300k, so an album can easily £2m of artist revenue. The digital services (Spotify, Apple. Deezer, Tidal, etc) also pay a lesser amount to the writer of the song, which may also be the performer (or not!).

So the bigger acts still make a lot of money and the shitty acts who would never have sold physical goods, don't get streams and generate nothing, so no change there. The big losers are those acts in the middle where streaming hasn't replaced the 50,000 albums they might sold a few years ago. Therefore, they have to be cleverer selling limited edition and signed physical goods and maximising touring revenue. Obviously the touring circuit has been wiped out this summer, particularly festivals which provide a great opportunity to make some money and gain wider exposure.

Personally, I use Apple, as many here do when I'm running, travelling or even working and still buy CDs and vinyl. What I rarely do is to buy something I haven't listened to but I have discovered a mass of new music through the digital services. As someone pointed out the digital music services have been massively important in guiding people away from peer-to-peer piracy services. Yes, you can still get everything you want for free, but for most people, why bother when you can get access to almost everything for £9.99 a month. Oh, even after 10 years Spotify is still losing money hand-over-fist.

 

[SteMerritt]

I work for a middling sized record company and I can verify that a million Spotify streams generate between £3,500 and £4,000, depending on the company involved. What the artist gets obviously depends on the deal but you can bet that anyone with pre-2000 deal is probably getting between 5% and 15% of that, unless they are a big enough name to have been able to re-negotiate. Modern deals can mean the artist getting a much more reasonable 30% or even in some cases, 50% of the revenue. Spotify also pay out less than Apple and most of the other services.

Streaming is one part of the income flow - there are also downloads (declining rapidly), physical goods (fast becoming a niche market but still there), performance (ie radio & TV) and what is called 'synchronisation', which is putting music in TV programmes, films, ads, games, podcasts), etc. To that you can add merchandise and live touring (which is obviously fecked at the moment).

The big acts, particularly US rap, hip hop and R&B acts, can still make big money from streaming, as do the likes of Dua Lipa, Ed Sheeran, Calvin Harris, Coldplay, etc. They regularly have tracks that stream in excess of 300 million times - 300 x £4,000 = £1.2m. 25% of that is £300k, so an album can easily £2m of artist revenue. The digital services (Spotify, Apple. Deezer, Tidal, etc) also pay a lesser amount to the writer of the song, which may also be the performer (or not!).

So the bigger acts still make a lot of money and the shitty acts who would never have sold physical goods, don't get streams and generate nothing, so no change there. The big losers are those acts in the middle where streaming hasn't replaced the 50,000 albums they might sold a few years ago. Therefore, they have to be cleverer selling limited edition and signed physical goods and maximising touring revenue. Obviously the touring circuit has been wiped out this summer, particularly festivals which provide a great opportunity to make some money and gain wider exposure.

Personally, I use Apple, as many here do when I'm running, travelling or even working and still buy CDs and vinyl. What I rarely do is to buy something I haven't listened to but I have discovered a mass of new music through the digital services. As someone pointed out the digital music services have been massively important in guiding people away from peer-to-peer piracy services. Yes, you can still get everything you want for free, but for most people, why bother when you can get access to almost everything for £9.99 a month. Oh, even after 10 years Spotify is still losing money hand-over-fist.

Perhaps the answer is get the physical release out first (equivalent to a cinema release), then a month later add to streaming services (Home release) ? Then you get the initial sales from your diehard fans who want to be first with the music, then afterwards the general public stream as usual.

 

[Big Ron]

Perhaps the answer is get the physical release out first (equivalent to a cinema release), then a month later add to streaming services (Home release) ? Then you get the initial sales from your diehard fans who want to be first with the music, then afterwards the general public stream as usual.

Steve, some acts do that but the bigger multi-nationals (Universal, Warner and Sony) would drop physical goods all together if they could. Streaming represents about 80% of 'sales' revenue. Vinyl has its own inherent problems - cost of manufacturing (about £5 per unit and around a 3 month wait for capacity), distribution, storage, etc. If you're a medium sized company and you get stuck with 100,000 overstocks, then you have £500k+ of stock accumulating storage costs and dust.

We do a lot of 'established' acts (Pretenders, Kylie, Ash, Simple Minds, Sparks, etc) and the sale of multi-format physical goods is incredibly important - these artists spend a lot of time signing and personalising goods.

 

[SteMerritt]

Steve, some acts do that but the bigger multi-nationals (Universal, Warner and Sony) would drop physical goods all together if they could. Streaming represents about 80% of 'sales' revenue. Vinyl has its own inherent problems - cost of manufacturing (about £5 per unit and around a 3 month wait for capacity), distribution, storage, etc. If you're a medium sized company and you get stuck with 100,000 overstocks, then you have £500k+ of stock accumulating storage costs and dust.

We do a lot of 'established' acts (Pretenders, Kylie, Ash, Simple Minds, Sparks, etc) and the sale of multi-format physical goods is incredibly important - these artists spend a lot of time signing and personalising goods.

The amount of money I've spent over the years on Simple Minds releases, think I've kept Jim Kerr off the streets almost singlehandedly ?

Thanks for your reply, interesting reading. I can see being left with stock would be a big problem. A few bands I follow on Social Media (thinking Shed Seven, Mansun, for example) are really pushing the personalised merchandise and high quality physical releases. Mansun just recently announced a 25 disc box set which is a bit out of my price range.

 

[m]

Lets add Spotify to the growing list of things Yellowsforum doesn't understand.

Yes, and let's let the voice of the few reflect the many.