National News Another £15bn for Test & Trace this year

[Essexyellows]

I'm a frontline health worker. Honestly, I think that any pay rise should be aimed at the lower paid members of the health service. Say band 5 and below i.e the porters, cleaners and entry level nursing staff. I don't want a payrise in my current position and won't be voting for action. I have a job, can pay my bills, have good leave entitlement and don't feel a payrise is justified in the current climate. However, I do feel it is justified for lower band staff.

IIRC those on under £24k get 3.5% under the long term deal?
The "abolition" of Band 1 can only lead to those on Band 2, 3 an onwards receiving uplifts and rightly so!

 

[Essexyellows]

I suspect you’re on a higher salary than nurses. I don’t expect the better paid people are complaining but nurses are not well paid and there seems to a problem with retaining them ... plus the ‘optics’ are very bad, not that I care whether the Tories look good.

I started on Band 2 which was around £16k at the time.
Within the NHS you can very easily bimble along and just hit the ceiling of your pay band as many of my former colleagues have done.
Equally there is a vast land of opportunity through education & development for those who want to "go and get it".
If you engage in that, learn and develop the sky really is the limit.
So we are back to the old thing that with self drive and determination you can get to a level of your own choice.

As for nursing pay: https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-guide/
Between 2010 and 2015, standard Nursing wages increased by 2.2% - which wasn’t in line with inflation. Then, between 2015 and 2017, a 1% increase was implemented each year. However, the picture is starting to look a bit more positive for NHS nurses thanks to the ‘New Pay Deal’. That deal features a number of changes to existing bandings and pay:

• Over the next three years, nurses will see a minimum salary increase of 6.5%
• That increase will be structured in the following way for most bandings:
  • 3 % in 2018/19
  • 1.7% in 2019/20 plus a lump sum worth 1.1% paid in April 2019
  • 1.7% in 2020/21
• These rates refer to top-of-band nurses – nurses at the bottom of their bandings could see increases of up to 29% over the next three years
• In some Band 8 and Band 9 positions, pay increases will be structured differently
• Band overlaps have been removed to ensure that promotions come with meaningful pay increases
• Importantly, the New Pay Deal is funded by new government money – not by removing funding from patient care
• Unsocial hours payments have not been affected.

I`ll agree about the optics but, as above, its the detail that matters.....

 

[QR]

I started on Band 2 which was around £16k at the time.
Within the NHS you can very easily bimble along and just hit the ceiling of your pay band as many of my former colleagues have done.
Equally there is a vast land of opportunity through education & development for those who want to "go and get it".
If you engage in that, learn and develop the sky really is the limit.
So we are back to the old thing that with self drive and determination you can get to a level of your own choice.

As for nursing pay: https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-guide/
Between 2010 and 2015, standard Nursing wages increased by 2.2% - which wasn’t in line with inflation. Then, between 2015 and 2017, a 1% increase was implemented each year. However, the picture is starting to look a bit more positive for NHS nurses thanks to the ‘New Pay Deal’. That deal features a number of changes to existing bandings and pay:

• Over the next three years, nurses will see a minimum salary increase of 6.5%
• That increase will be structured in the following way for most bandings:
  • 3 % in 2018/19
  • 1.7% in 2019/20 plus a lump sum worth 1.1% paid in April 2019
  • 1.7% in 2020/21
• These rates refer to top-of-band nurses – nurses at the bottom of their bandings could see increases of up to 29% over the next three years
• In some Band 8 and Band 9 positions, pay increases will be structured differently
• Band overlaps have been removed to ensure that promotions come with meaningful pay increases
• Importantly, the New Pay Deal is funded by new government money – not by removing funding from patient care
• Unsocial hours payments have not been affected.

I`ll agree about the optics but, as above, its the detail that matters.....

You mean they pay you? I'd assumed you were a patient.

 

[Manorlounger]

I started on Band 2 which was around £16k at the time.
Within the NHS you can very easily bimble along and just hit the ceiling of your pay band as many of my former colleagues have done.
Equally there is a vast land of opportunity through education & development for those who want to "go and get it".
If you engage in that, learn and develop the sky really is the limit.
So we are back to the old thing that with self drive and determination you can get to a level of your own choice.

As for nursing pay: https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-guide/
Between 2010 and 2015, standard Nursing wages increased by 2.2% - which wasn’t in line with inflation. Then, between 2015 and 2017, a 1% increase was implemented each year. However, the picture is starting to look a bit more positive for NHS nurses thanks to the ‘New Pay Deal’. That deal features a number of changes to existing bandings and pay:

• Over the next three years, nurses will see a minimum salary increase of 6.5%
• That increase will be structured in the following way for most bandings:
  • 3 % in 2018/19
  • 1.7% in 2019/20 plus a lump sum worth 1.1% paid in April 2019
  • 1.7% in 2020/21
• These rates refer to top-of-band nurses – nurses at the bottom of their bandings could see increases of up to 29% over the next three years
• In some Band 8 and Band 9 positions, pay increases will be structured differently
• Band overlaps have been removed to ensure that promotions come with meaningful pay increases
• Importantly, the New Pay Deal is funded by new government money – not by removing funding from patient care
• Unsocial hours payments have not been affected.

I`ll agree about the optics but, as above, its the detail that matters.....

This was the text from when the "agreement" was announced. It is not a current or an ongoing deal.

Unsocial hours payments were affected in so far as the timings for qualifying as unsocial. Members of Unison that I represented within the ambulance service were very much affected and faced losing quite a chunk of earnings. Anyone who joined the NHS after 2018 would have been signed up to the new hours and would, as a consequence, have been worse off. Existing employees were eventually granted an opt out to retain previous salary levels. (so good was the deal forced upon staff)

What few take on board is that the banding structure is to encourage training and qualification. In real terms it can mean that someone starting out in the NHS will not earn the true salary for their position for some years.
To say that there are opportunities to advance within the NHS is a little disingenuous, yes there are many roles some of which carry a higher salary or banding but to infer that everyone has the opportunity to achieve promotion or job switch is not true. A band three care assistant will have, on the whole, few qualifications and little opportunity to study. And yet, they form the backbone of patient care. They are the ones emptying the commodes, changing the bed linen, feeding & cleaning the patients.

 

[QR]

This was the text from when the "agreement" was announced. It is not a current or an ongoing deal.

Unsocial hours payments were affected in so far as the timings for qualifying as unsocial. Members of Unison that I represented within the ambulance service were very much affected and faced losing quite a chunk of earnings. Anyone who joined the NHS after 2018 would have been signed up to the new hours and would, as a consequence, have been worse off. Existing employees were eventually granted an opt out to retain previous salary levels. (so good was the deal forced upon staff)

What few take on board is that the banding structure is to encourage training and qualification. In real terms it can mean that someone starting out in the NHS will not earn the true salary for their position for some years.
To say that there are opportunities to advance within the NHS is a little disingenuous, yes there are many roles some of which carry a higher salary or banding but to infer that everyone has the opportunity to achieve promotion or job switch is not true. A band three care assistant will have, on the whole, few qualifications and little opportunity to study. And yet, they form the backbone of patient care. They are the ones emptying the commodes, changing the bed linen, feeding & cleaning the patients.

^^^^
This.

 

[Concretebob]

 

[Essexyellows]

This was the text from when the "agreement" was announced. It is not a current or an ongoing deal.

Unsocial hours payments were affected in so far as the timings for qualifying as unsocial. Members of Unison that I represented within the ambulance service were very much affected and faced losing quite a chunk of earnings. Anyone who joined the NHS after 2018 would have been signed up to the new hours and would, as a consequence, have been worse off. Existing employees were eventually granted an opt out to retain previous salary levels. (so good was the deal forced upon staff)

What few take on board is that the banding structure is to encourage training and qualification. In real terms it can mean that someone starting out in the NHS will not earn the true salary for their position for some years.
To say that there are opportunities to advance within the NHS is a little disingenuous, yes there are many roles some of which carry a higher salary or banding but to infer that everyone has the opportunity to achieve promotion or job switch is not true. A band three care assistant will have, on the whole, few qualifications and little opportunity to study. And yet, they form the backbone of patient care. They are the ones emptying the commodes, changing the bed linen, feeding & cleaning the patients.

Is training and development a bad thing??
Not true? Ermmm.. yes it is!
I started as a Band 2 Receipts & Distribution Operative.
Took the opportunities and education to work up to a Band 3 Deputy R&D Team Leader.
Then Band 4 Team Leader.
Then Band 5 Smart Stock System Support.
Then Band 6 Assistant Contracts Manager, although the broad skill set means I get thrown at other "stuff".

The HCA`s can look for, find and take the same opportunities if they want too.

 

[QR]

Is training and development a bad thing??
Not true? Ermmm.. yes it is!
I started as a Band 2 Receipts & Distribution Operative.
Took the opportunities and education to work up to a Band 3 Deputy R&D Team Leader.
Then Band 4 Team Leader.
Then Band 5 Smart Stock System Support.
Then Band 6 Assistant Contracts Manager, although the broad skill set means I get thrown at other "stuff".

The HCA`s can look for, find and take the same opportunities if they want too.

Nurse!

 

[Sarge]

My cynicism is working overtime, pondering whether this 'leaked' 1% NHS rise in advance of the due review etc , is actually paving the way for a (still) paltry 2.5-3.5% ( or similar) pay rise actually being announced after 'proper due process', .... which would be, in comparison to 1% be perceived as much better, so then 'everyone' proclaims hurrah for Doris, what a guy..... when the reality should be that a derisory 2.5%-3.5% is way under what is warranted, needed or deserved?

 

[Essexyellows]

Nurse!

Unfortunately the NHS isn`t just "Doctors & Nurses" there are about 1.5 million of us doing everything from cleaning the loo`s to guiding the organisation.
So shall we give the Nursing staff the 12.5% and the rest of us 1%?
If you give it to nurses what about HCA`s? What about the porters? What about the Med Physics guys who keep the kit maintained?

Without the rest of us Nurses can`t do what Nurses do, again it isn`t as simple as some make it out to be.

 

[QR]

Unfortunately the NHS isn`t just "Doctors & Nurses" there are about 1.5 million of us doing everything from cleaning the loo`s to guiding the organisation.
So shall we give the Nursing staff the 12.5% and the rest of us 1%?
If you give it to nurses what about HCA`s? What about the porters? What about the Med Physics guys who keep the kit maintained?

Without the rest of us Nurses can`t do what Nurses do, again it isn`t as simple as some make it out to be.

Tell us something we don't know.

The government seem to find the money when it's for their mates.

 

[Steve McAvoy]

Really? A smart move? And what would be your experience in matters relating to NHS nursing staff?

I'll grant you that many NHS staff would rather not withdraw their labour but, don't for one minute imagine that they would never take action. Likewise, do you not think that public opinion would be in their favour?

And, as an aside, most of the staff on a ward would not be nurses but carers. Low paid and with very little career prospects. Don't think for one minute that they are happy to carry on working for an extra 1%. Do you even know how much that would be?

Working in a CAMHS Team for 15 years in Wakefield; working in multi-disclinary teams in Leeds and North Yorkshire prior to that. Not picking an argument, answering a question.

 

[Manorlounger]

Unfortunately the NHS isn`t just "Doctors & Nurses" there are about 1.5 million of us doing everything from cleaning the loo`s to guiding the organisation.
So shall we give the Nursing staff the 12.5% and the rest of us 1%?
If you give it to nurses what about HCA`s? What about the porters? What about the Med Physics guys who keep the kit maintained?

Without the rest of us Nurses can`t do what Nurses do, again it isn`t as simple as some make it out to be.

That is slightly fudging the issue though, isn't it. Agenda for Change would govern all those within the NHS as it has done before. Doctors and consultants are separate but otherwise it covers pretty much everybody on an NHS contract of employment. The individual bandings could be treated individually as it was in the already quoted 3 year pay deal but, in this situation that would hardly apply.
Also, to use your own experience as part of the NHS as an example of what can be achieved is not a blanket proof of what anyone can achieve. If that were the case, how many HCAs would you envisage attaining band 6 like yourself?

And let's put it out there, go onto any ward and count how many actual nurses are on duty and then how many HCAs. The nurses have spoken out first but now the other NHS unions are speaking out on behalf of their members. Those are the folk who are band 2 to band 4 who, as I've already said, form the backbone of the NHS. Tell them that they are going to get just 1%.
The whole thing stinks. It's a derisory offer, contrary to what had already been recommended and will not go down well with the general public. Politically this is the biggest own goal by the government for a long time.

 

[Manorlounger]

Working in a CAMHS Team for 15 years in Wakefield; working in multi-disclinary teams in Leeds and North Yorkshire prior to that. Not picking an argument, answering a question.

Then you have my respect for what you do. And, I would add, my anger at how your profession has been treated in recent times.

Social care is in dire need of financial support and the sooner the promises made by Boris are acted upon, the better. I noted Hancock being questioned on that very subject yesterday and looking somewhat nervous.

I'm ex ambulance service (not front line) and also a Unison Rep so I was very much involved in the last discussions and actions.

 

[Essexyellows]

That is slightly fudging the issue though, isn't it. Agenda for Change would govern all those within the NHS as it has done before. Doctors and consultants are separate but otherwise it covers pretty much everybody on an NHS contract of employment. The individual bandings could be treated individually as it was in the already quoted 3 year pay deal but, in this situation that would hardly apply.
Also, to use your own experience as part of the NHS as an example of what can be achieved is not a blanket proof of what anyone can achieve. If that were the case, how many HCAs would you envisage attaining band 6 like yourself?

And let's put it out there, go onto any ward and count how many actual nurses are on duty and then how many HCAs. The nurses have spoken out first but now the other NHS unions are speaking out on behalf of their members. Those are the folk who are band 2 to band 4 who, as I've already said, form the backbone of the NHS. Tell them that they are going to get just 1%.
The whole thing stinks. It's a derisory offer, contrary to what had already been recommended and will not go down well with the general public. Politically this is the biggest own goal by the government for a long time.

It won`t be an "own goal" as your experience should tell you.
HMG have put their flag in the ground, the Unions et al have placed theirs.
Eventually something in the middle will be achieved.

It may shock folk to know I am a Unison member.
As you can join a union and opt out of financially supporting the Labour party ...

 

[Essexyellows]

Another £15billion to go on the failed test & trace programme this year to add to the £22billion last year. So £3.50 a week extra is "all they can afford" for Nurses according to Nadine Dorries,
the private sector still on the gravy train though.

Test and Trace bill to pass £37 billion after quiet Budget cash injection

The London Economic - Test and Trace will get another £15 billion in government cash, the small print of the Budget has confirmed - Politics

www.thelondoneconomic.com

Failed?

Apparently testing an average 600k a day as well as the tracing on top of it......... can`t see that coming cheap whichever way it is viewed.
A single PCR test from our lab is £60 for external bodies.

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