International News Americans with guns ....

Jim Jefferies makes the point brilliantly regarding guns for home protection. Either you have a loaded gun readily available at all times, which presents a far greater risk that your children will kill themselves or each other, or you have your gun secured in a safe, which means that it offers no protection!

Having guns to protect yourself or your property is a bullshit excuse as they do neither.
 
“The Gun Lobby’s interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime. The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies – the militia – would be maintained for the defense of the state. The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires“

Warren E. Burger, Chief Justice of the United States (1969-86)
 
bashamwonderland said:
It would be dumb to turn up to a gun fight with a knife. Or nothing. The discussion here is about a mass murderer who attacked a school, not a sensible home owner in a country where everyone is packing.
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It was a teenage kid. Where do yo think he got the gun? I’ll wager his parents were “sensible Gun owners”
 
Listening to Senator Yes Cruz this morning when interviews about these senseless murders, he said words to the affect of that locking up the criminals will go a long way to solving the problem but to take away the right to hear arms is unfair.
1, kill before getting locked up
2, take away or severe restrictions on gun ownership which might go some way to solving the problem.
3. He and another senator are going to the NRA weekend this coming week.
 
This is how easy it was.......... and still is.
This was filmed almost a decade ago and what has changed? Nothing.
www.bbc.co.uk

How easy is it to buy a gun in Texas?

Panorama's Hilary Andersson goes undercover at a gun show in Texas to find out how easy it is to buy an assault rifle like the one used in the Sandy Hook massacre.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Foley said:
Where do you live Tony?
Are 'moderates' concerned at the way that the US is going?
Bans on abortion, Texas making it easier to buy guns, Trump. We have our problems in the UK, but they seem dwarfed by some if what is going on in the US
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I live in New Jersey.
In US terms, we're viewed as a 'loony liberal' state - but in practise, I've found general attitudes to be much the same here as in the UK.
Admittedly less so on guns - because to someone who's grown up in Britain, gun laws here are still terrifyingly lax. But they are at least more restrictive than anywhere else in the country except New York (although there is a genuine risk that the US Supreme Court will force them to change some of the laws to make them less restrictive, in line with a conservative interpretation of the constitution).

What you have to remember about the US is that it's an incredibly diverse country.
I honestly believe that - despite the common language and universal love of driving and fast food - the differences in attitudes and ethos between different states in the US are much greater than between the different countries of Europe.....certainly Western and Central Europe.

So whilst there is a degree of horror here about what's going on in other parts of the nation, there's something of a battle of two different approaches.
Some people (most loudly the AOCs of the world) want to make sure to protect the rights of every American and legislate on a federal level; others are content that decisions are made on a state level, and as long as they don't try and tell NJ how to live, if some of these states want to behave like medieval shitholes, that's their prerogative. The sane citizens can always move to the coasts if they want to get away.

As I get older, spend more time here and get less idealistic and more cynical......I'm tending more and more towards the latter. If a state can seriously keep choosing a presidential candidate like Trump, a governor like Greg Abbott and a senator like Ted Cruz, then frankly, I'm inclined to throw up my hands and leave them to it (Sorry, Ricky O!!)
 
tonyw said:
I live in New Jersey.
In US terms, we're viewed as a 'loony liberal' state - but in practise, I've found general attitudes to be much the same here as in the UK.
Admittedly less so on guns - because to someone who's grown up in Britain, gun laws here are still terrifyingly lax. But they are at least more restrictive than anywhere else in the country except New York (although there is a genuine risk that the US Supreme Court will force them to change some of the laws to make them less restrictive, in line with a conservative interpretation of the constitution).

What you have to remember about the US is that it's an incredibly diverse country.
I honestly believe that - despite the common language and universal love of driving and fast food - the differences in attitudes and ethos between different states in the US are much greater than between the different countries of Europe.....certainly Western and Central Europe.

So whilst there is a degree of horror here about what's going on in other parts of the nation, there's something of a battle of two different approaches.
Some people (most loudly the AOCs of the world) want to make sure to protect the rights of every American and legislate on a federal level; others are content that decisions are made on a state level, and as long as they don't try and tell NJ how to live, if some of these states want to behave like medieval shitholes, that's their prerogative. The sane citizens can always move to the coasts if they want to get away.

As I get older, spend more time here and get less idealistic and more cynical......I'm tending more and more towards the latter. If a state can seriously keep choosing a presidential candidate like Trump, a governor like Greg Abbott and a senator like Ted Cruz, then frankly, I'm inclined to throw up my hands and leave them to it (Sorry, Ricky O!!)
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Interesting. Can you tell me do you get much mob activity in New Jersey now
 
bazzer9461 said:
Interesting. Can you tell me do you get much mob activity in New Jersey now
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Ha ha - I have no idea, Bazzer.

Sopranos territory was basically the I-95 corridor from Elizabeth up to Jersey City, just across the river from New York. That's a pretty ugly part of the state, and not somewhere I spend a lot of time!

Where I live in a small town in central NJ, we have about as much visibility of mob activity as I had growing up in Abingdon!!
 
tonyw said:
Ha ha - I have no idea, Bazzer.

Sopranos territory was basically the I-95 corridor from Elizabeth up to Jersey City, just across the river from New York. That's a pretty ugly part of the state, and not somewhere I spend a lot of time!

Where I live in a small town in central NJ, we have about as much visibility of mob activity as I had growing up in Abingdon!!
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I only asked as i studied organised crime in the USA for my history back in 1976 and I know back then it was pretty naughty😊
 
tonyw said:
I live in New Jersey.
In US terms, we're viewed as a 'loony liberal' state - but in practise, I've found general attitudes to be much the same here as in the UK.
Admittedly less so on guns - because to someone who's grown up in Britain, gun laws here are still terrifyingly lax. But they are at least more restrictive than anywhere else in the country except New York (although there is a genuine risk that the US Supreme Court will force them to change some of the laws to make them less restrictive, in line with a conservative interpretation of the constitution).

What you have to remember about the US is that it's an incredibly diverse country.
I honestly believe that - despite the common language and universal love of driving and fast food - the differences in attitudes and ethos between different states in the US are much greater than between the different countries of Europe.....certainly Western and Central Europe.

So whilst there is a degree of horror here about what's going on in other parts of the nation, there's something of a battle of two different approaches.
Some people (most loudly the AOCs of the world) want to make sure to protect the rights of every American and legislate on a federal level; others are content that decisions are made on a state level, and as long as they don't try and tell NJ how to live, if some of these states want to behave like medieval shitholes, that's their prerogative. The sane citizens can always move to the coasts if they want to get away.

As I get older, spend more time here and get less idealistic and more cynical......I'm tending more and more towards the latter. If a state can seriously keep choosing a presidential candidate like Trump, a governor like Greg Abbott and a senator like Ted Cruz, then frankly, I'm inclined to throw up my hands and leave them to it (Sorry, Ricky O!!)
Click to expand...
Interesting.
Where do you think the more extreme views are likely to lead the US?
Is there any chance at all that the US could split in 2 ( hard line states and more Liberal ones?)
I assume that the abortion issue will lead to a lot of friction ( presumably people could get up and go from states with such extreme laws?)
Is the Republican Party likely at any time to move more towards the middle ground?
 
tonyw said:
I live in New Jersey.
In US terms, we're viewed as a 'loony liberal' state - but in practise, I've found general attitudes to be much the same here as in the UK.
Admittedly less so on guns - because to someone who's grown up in Britain, gun laws here are still terrifyingly lax. But they are at least more restrictive than anywhere else in the country except New York (although there is a genuine risk that the US Supreme Court will force them to change some of the laws to make them less restrictive, in line with a conservative interpretation of the constitution).

What you have to remember about the US is that it's an incredibly diverse country.
I honestly believe that - despite the common language and universal love of driving and fast food - the differences in attitudes and ethos between different states in the US are much greater than between the different countries of Europe.....certainly Western and Central Europe.

So whilst there is a degree of horror here about what's going on in other parts of the nation, there's something of a battle of two different approaches.
Some people (most loudly the AOCs of the world) want to make sure to protect the rights of every American and legislate on a federal level; others are content that decisions are made on a state level, and as long as they don't try and tell NJ how to live, if some of these states want to behave like medieval shitholes, that's their prerogative. The sane citizens can always move to the coasts if they want to get away.

As I get older, spend more time here and get less idealistic and more cynical......I'm tending more and more towards the latter. If a state can seriously keep choosing a presidential candidate like Trump, a governor like Greg Abbott and a senator like Ted Cruz, then frankly, I'm inclined to throw up my hands and leave them to it (Sorry, Ricky O!!)
Click to expand...
With the likely ban on abortion in southern states and even talk of banning contraception, surely a lot of the more educated and intelligent young people are likely to leave, and modern tech companies too. That could leave the republican states with pretty disastrous economic prospects, surely?
 
werthersoriginal said:
With the likely ban on abortion in southern states and even talk of banning contraception, surely a lot of the more educated and intelligent young people are likely to leave, and modern tech companies too. That could leave the republican states with pretty disastrous economic prospects, surely?
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Foley said:
Interesting.
Where do you think the more extreme views are likely to lead the US?
Is there any chance at all that the US could split in 2 ( hard line states and more Liberal ones?)
I assume that the abortion issue will lead to a lot of friction ( presumably people could get up and go from states with such extreme laws?)
Is the Republican Party likely at any time to move more towards the middle ground?
Click to expand...

Gonna try and answer this two in one succinct go (although being succinct isn't my strength).

The honest answer is that a bunch of southern republican states are already struggling economically, and have for years. Seriously, if you go and drive around places like Arkansas and Mississippi, there is real, grinding poverty and not a whole lot of economic activity. More hardline laws - especially on abortion - are probably not going to change very much. They may drive away some more educated and intelligent young people, but frankly a lot of those people have probably been leaving anyway.

The Northern republican states are a bit different - they tend to be less socially conservative, and more '**** off big government and leave me alone'. They will still likely enact some abortion restrictions, but they're mostly operating on a more libertarian, independent basis anyway - and doing much better economically than their southern counterparts. Again, I wouldn't expect a whole lot to change.

Texas is the massive oddball. Colossal state, absolute economic powerhouse but very, very divided. Their low tax rates have been attracting people from the coasts for years/decades now and places like Austin & San Antonio (and maybe Houston? Ricky Otto would be the one to ask about that!) are now liberal meccas, growing massively and economically doing great. But then great swathes of central Texas are struggling former oil towns and are ultra-conservative hotbeds.
What's going to happen in Texas if they start enacting extreme laws on abortion and other issues is anyone's guess......


The Republican Party really should split - it would be good for everyone if they did, I think.
Because at the moment they are trying to be an umbrella for populists like Trump, social conservatives and small government fiscal conservatives. If they divided in two, then I think the centrist half would probably pick up a lot of defectors from the establishment wing of the Democrat party, and you'd probably end up with three parties of roughly equal support.
But until that happens, then the battles for the soul of the party are going to get uglier and uglier (as, to be fair, are the internal battles amongst the Democrats between the socialists and the centrists).......
 
That description of the republicans is similar to the Liberal/National coalition here in Oz. They are at crisis now, as the electorate have called their bluff by voting for independent moderates in place of Lib moderates. That is causing a lurch to the right in the parliamentary libs which will make it harder for them to regain centre ground. Peter “Voldemort” Dutton is the new leader, who is a heartless, hard line Queensland ex copper.
That party now has one chance to reinvent itself closer to the centre, or to become the tea party and lose sight of power for a while.
 
And now Trump has jumped on the "arm teachers" bandwagon.

What next...the NRA suggest closing schools?!
 
Got to love the American right-wing. In amongst polling around gun control is the stat that 44% of Republicans said mass shootings should be accepted as part of a free society.
Just mind bogglingly stupid.
 
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